There are a number of Scriptures that teach us that the scope of Christ's death was limited to the elect. Here are a few of them:
Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for MANY (Matthew 20:28).
The "many" for whom Christ died are the elect of God, just as Isaiah had said long before,
By his knowledge my righteous servant will justify MANY, and he will bear their iniquities. (Isaiah 53:11)
The Lord Jesus made it clear that His death was for His people when He spoke of the Shepherd and the sheep:
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep....just as the Father knows me and I know the Father---and I lay down my life for THE SHEEP (John 10:11, 15).
The good Shepherd lays down His life in behalf of the sheep. Are all men the sheep of Christ? Certainly not, for most men do not know Christ, and Christ says that His sheep know Him (John 10:14). Further, Jesus specifically told the Jews who did not believe in Him, "but you do not believe because you are not my sheep" (John 10:26). Note that in contrast with the idea that we believe and therefore make ourselves Christ's sheep, Jesus says that they do not believe because they are not His sheep! Whether one is of Christ's sheep is the Father's decision (John 6:37, 8:47), not the sheep's!
...just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for US as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God....husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up FOR HER to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless (Ephesians 5:2, 25-27).
Christ gave Himself in behalf of His Church, His Body, and that for the purpose of cleansing her and making her holy. If this was His intention for the Church, why would He give Himself for those who are not of the Church? Would He not wish to make these "others" holy as well? Yet, if Christ died for all men, there are many, many who will remain impure for all eternity. Was Christ's death insufficient to cleanse them? Certainly not. Did He have a different goal in mind in dying for them? [I am not here denying that the death of Christ had effects for all men, indeed, for all of creation. I believe that His death is indeed part of the "summing up of all things" in Christ. But, we are speaking here solely with the salvific effect of the substitutionary atonement of Christ. One might say that Christ's death has an effect upon those for whom it was not intended as an atoning sacrifice.] No, His sacrificial death in behalf of His Church results in her purification, and this is what He intended for all for whom He died.
He who did not spare His own Son, but gave him up for us all---how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring a charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died---more than that, who was raised to life---is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us (Romans 8:32-34).
The Father gave the Son in our place. Who is the "our" of this passage? The text says that it is "those whom God has chosen," that is, the elect of God. Again, the intercessory work of Christ at the right hand of the Father is presented in perfect harmony with the death of Christ---those for whom Christ died are those for whom He intercedes. And, as this passage shows, if Christ intercedes for someone, who can possibly bring a charge against that person and hope to see them condemned? So we see what we have seen before: Christ dies in someone's place, He intercedes for them, and they are infallibly saved. Christ's work is complete and perfect. He is the powerful Savior, and He never fails to accomplish His purpose.
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for HIS FRIENDS (John 15:13).
Are all the friends of Christ? Do all own His name? Do all bow before Him and accept Him as Lord? Do all do His commandments (John 15:14)? Then not all are His friends.
While we wait for the blessed hope---the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself FOR US to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good (Titus 2:13-14).
Both the substitutionary element of the cross (gave himself for us) and the purpose thereof (to redeem us...to purify) are forcefully presented to Titus. If it was the purpose of Christ to redeem and purify those for whom He died, can this possibly not take place?
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save HIS PEOPLE from their sins (Matthew 1:21).
Christ will save His people from their sins Well, did He? Did He save His people, or did He not?
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me (Galatians 2:20).
This is the common confession of every true believer in Christ. We died with Him, our Substitute, the one who loved us and gave Himself in our behalf.
We have seen, then, that the Word teaches that Christ died for many, for His sheep, for the Church, for the elect of God, for His friends, for a people zealous for good works, for His people, for each and every Christian.
James all of theses scriptures are in denial of romans 4:17
You see faith sees all saved, because the ransom was paid for all..
These scripture for one do not have anything to do with minimize, the atonement.
You can not proclaim scripture as the truth, and then deny all the scripture that deals with the topic directly.
Mt 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 � Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
I wish you would spend your energies trying to understand Scripture instead of try to make it match your doctrine. *sigh*
Who is the elect?
The elect is the Church, the Body of Christ.
Who did God foreknow?
The Church, the Body of Christ.
Who did God predestine?
The Church, the Body of Christ
Who does God justify?
The Church, the Body of Christ.
Who will God glorify?
The Church, the Body of Christ.
Who is choosen?
The Church, the Body of Christ.
Who are His sheep?
The Church, the Body of Christ.
If we believe and repent,and turn to Christ who are we?
The Church the Body of Christ, His sheep, the elect.
Who did Jesus lay down His life for?
All men, "whosoever", the whole world, humanity, including the elect, His sheep, The Church, the Body of Christ.
It is only the Church, the Body of Christ, His sheep, the elect that have believed, repented and "received" the greatest gift of all; Jesus, that does not mean Jesus didn't lay His life down for the sins of the whole world.
A company offers a rebate to "all" its customers, yet only 10% send in the rebate. It was the company's intent that "whosoever" wanted a rebate would get one.
Therefore, it can be said the company gave rebates to all its customers and it can also be said that the company gave rebates only to those who sent it them in.
Lets call the ones who responded to the rebate as the "elect customers". The elect customers are "marked out" or "appointed" to receive a rebate check.
Who received rebates?
All customers
Who are the elect customers?
The customers who sent their rebate in.
Who did the company foreknow?
From past experience the company foreknew that only a small percentage of its customers would send in their rebate.
Who did the company predestine to pay rebates to?
Only those customers who sent them in.
Who did the company justly send money to?
Those who sent in the rebate, the elect customer.
Who did the company glorify with money?
Those who sent their rebate in, the elect customer.
James, let me ask you again [for the 3rd or 4th time]... do you preach the Cross when you witness to an unbeliever? Do you share the love of Christ with them? Do you share any of the following Scriptures? Do you preach as Paul did?
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. -Romans 5:6,8
This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -1 Timothy 1:15
For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; -1 Timothy 3-5
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. -Luke 5:32
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? -John 11:25-26
And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. -2 Corinthians 5:19-21
I just am writing a small note this morning because I do not want you to miss this : Did you notice in my above posts to you that "ALL" Scripture is in agreement? I haven't only taken some scriptures, I haven't "ignored" some scriptures. "IF" you are truly a seeker of the truth and not one who is pushing a particular doctrine, this should make you take notice.
No going beyond what Scripture reveals and no "divine paradoxes" in this view of Scripture!
All men, "whosoever", the whole world, humanity, including the elect, His sheep, The Church, the Body of Christ.
James replies:
Do you have ANY Scripture that says that Jesus died for everyone who ever lived???
NO, you don't. Then WHY do you keep saying it?
Twosparrows said:
It is only the Church, the Body of Christ, His sheep, the elect that have believed, repented and "received" the greatest gift of all; Jesus, that does not mean Jesus didn't lay His life down for the sins of the whole world.
James replies:
SAD! You just said: "that does not mean Jesus didn't lay his life down for the sins of the whole world"
And here is Scripture using the EXACT phrase "Lay down his life FOR..." HIS FRIENDS!
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for HIS FRIENDS (John 15:13).
Again, Twosparrows which is it, "the whole world" or "His friends"?
I mean John was an apostle twosparrows, you are not!
Did Jesus give His life for "the whole world" like you said, OR........
Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for MANY (Matthew 20:28).
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep....just as the Father knows me and I know the Father---and I lay down my life for THE SHEEP (John 10:11, 15).
..just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for US as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God....husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up FOR HER to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless (Ephesians 5:2, 25-27).
While we wait for the blessed hope---the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself FOR US to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good (Titus 2:13-14).
ALL these Scriptures say SPECIFICALLY WHO JESUS DIED FOR, and YOU STILL say "everyone in the whole world"????
I have a question twosparrows, How many times does God have to say something before you believe it?
James, let me ask you again [for the 3rd or 4th time]... do you preach the Cross when you witness to an unbeliever? Do you share the love of Christ with them? Do you share any of the following Scriptures? Do you preach as Paul did?
James replies:
I have already posted TWICE on sharing the gospel on this forum. the first time was a list of do's and don'ts when sharing the gospel.
No, I don''t preach to them, I share the gospel.
You asked If I tell non-Christians that Jesus loves them,and the answer is NO. ONLY Arminians do that.
You should now 71 that I went door to door one night a week for THREE years sharing the gospel with people.
71 said:
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. -Romans 5:6,8
This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -1 Timothy 1:15
James replies:
These verses are written to people who are ALREADY Christians, and it is NOT concerning sharing the gospel with non-believers.
71 said:
For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; -1 Timothy 3-5
James replies:
"all" means ALL of the sheep, ALL of God's elect.
71, if you demand that God wants every person who ever lived to be saved, then YOU have a god that can't do what he wants to do. Have you ever thought about that??
71 said:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. -Luke 5:32
James replies:
Those are both good verses for sharing the gospel.
71 said:
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? -John 11:25-26
James replies:
again, another good verse for sharing the gospel.
71 said:
And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. -2 Corinthians 5:19-21
James replies:
as long as you know "the world" means "people from all over the world".
