Thread: Some questions for followers of Calvin from the new Guy
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Some questions for followers of Calvin from the new Guy
Posted : 3 Mar, 2011 11:10 PM
Hey Everyone. This is to, primarily calvanists.
Im new here, and i dont know howlong this conversation has been going on...but i have seen it else where and never spoken up.
Its funny, I joined a dating website, two days ago to maybe meet a nice Christian girl, and now i have been preoccupied with the back and forth arguments of two middle aged men ...its funny the way God steers...Anywhoo(actually i apologise to the women who are niether "middle aged", nor Men, that are also in this disscussion :) )
A Question for calvanists...well 2:
1.)According to the westminster confession, everything that has ever happened or ever will happen has been predestined by God to happen. Right? Correct me if im wrong?
Every sinful act, every heinous act ever committed, was preordained by God and decreed by God to occur and there was no possibility it could have happened any other way? So that being said, every person who does evil acts are doing the will of God? SO how can it be that anyone is NOT doing the will of God? EVERYONE is doing what God predestined to occur, it cant happen any other way according to Calvanism. In the bible if you sin, are you doing the will of God? nooo...
But in Calvanism ALL acts, EVERYTHING is preordained. Yes?
2.)In Calvinism, you cannot believe or obey God without first being born again. The problem with this doctrine is that the OT saints believed and obeyed God and they were not born again. Calvinism claims these OT Jews were indeed born again. But they were people who sacrificed animals for their sins. Why? Because they had not been washed in the blood of Jesus. And the Hebrew's writer also tells us that to sacrifice animals for your sins when you have been washed in the blood of the Son is to trample the Son underfoot and insult the Spirit of grace. Indeed, he also says that the salvation we Christians enjoy was first preached by the Lord with signs and wonders. This is being born again into the Kingdom, a Kingdom which was first preached by John and was not a reality to the OT saints. We are told that we Christians have something which these OT saints did not have, a NEW and LIVING way, that is, the new birth.
So how is it then that these people believed and obeyed God without first being born again when Calvinism insists you must be born again first?
Some questions for followers of Calvin from the new Guy
Posted : 4 Mar, 2011 06:46 PM
RK said:
"Questions for followers of Calvin."
James replies:
There is NO SUCH THING as a follower of Calvin!
John Calvin made it very clear that he was saying NOTHING new, and he knew the Bible and the Early church fathers by heart, EVERYTHING he said AGREED with them.
RK said:
"So how is it then that these people believed and obeyed God without first being born again when Calvinism insists you must be born again first?"
James replies:
The term "Calvinism" is a NICKNAME for 5 points of Doctrine.
What you need to say is "Why do REFORMED Christians say that you have to be born again before you can believe."
Here is your answer:
Jesus said to Nicodemus. Unless a man is born again first, he cannot possibly see or enter the kingdom of God.
Regeneration is expressly denied to be of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man (John 1:13), and is ascribed to God himself. Not all men have faith in Christ; and those who do have it, have it not of themselves; it is the gift of God, worked out through the Redemption which is in Christ through the mighty operation of his Spirit, which is the fruit and effect of His invincible grace. This is because the natural man is wholly captive under the power and dominion of sin, and a slave unto it, and has neither a power nor will to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ apart from the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit.
"And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live...THEN you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD." - Ezekiel 37:14
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive [quickened us] with Christ even WHEN we were dead in transgressions � it is by grace you have been saved.
Ephesians 2:4-5
�It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is of no avail. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.� (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, �This is why I told you that no one can come to me [i.e. believe in me] UNLESS it is granted him by the Father.�
John 6:63-65
You have been born anew, not of perishable seed but but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God..."�
1 Peter 1:23-25
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ HAS BEEN born of God.
1 John 5:1
Faith in the living God and his Son Jesus Christ is always the result of the new birth, and can never exist except in the regenerate. Whoever has faith is a saved man.
Charles Spurgeon from the sermon �Faith and Regeneration�
If salvation is the implantation of a new, infinite life in the soul, it must be a work of God. Self-caused effects can never rise above the character or qualities of their cause. "Flesh gives birth to flesh but the Spirit gives birth to Spirit," Jesus told Nicodemus. This saving grace cannot be caused by the creature, it can only come from God.
John Hannah from To God be the Glory (pg. 34-5)
The inward offer is a kind of spiritual enlightenment, whereby the promises are presented to the hearts of men, as it were, by an inward word.
Some questions for followers of Calvin from the new Guy
Posted : 4 Mar, 2011 08:16 PM
Hi James, how goes it?
RK(me) said:
"So how is it then that these people believed and obeyed God without first being born again when Calvinism insists you must be born again first?"
James(you) replies:
The term "Calvinism" is a NICKNAME for 5 points of Doctrine.
:stop: Actually there is 3 point "CALVANISM" 4 point, hyper...a few others...so to say that "Calvanism" is a "nickname" is a bit of a strech. But i guess ill play along with you. :stop:
What you need to say is "Why do REFORMED Christians say that you have to be born again before you can believe."
Please dont tell me what I NEED to say my brother, First of all
"Why do REFORMED Christians say that you have to be born again before you can believe."
is not what i asked I asked:
"So how is it then that these people believed and obeyed God without first being born again when Calvinism insists you must be born again first?"
Which goes with the nice paragraph that i put before it. Of which you did not adress. You mysteriously, shifted topics, adn strted telling me that Jesus, adn the scriptures tell us that w need to be Born again, and its not of our work. Of which i agree...HOWEVER, you didnt adress a thing i posted. You just kinda avoided it. Which i guess is somethign i should have expected...one of the main reasons why i always keep quiet....
Annyway...there is a few question that still need to be adressed. if you want. You dont have to. Godbless
Some questions for followers of Calvin from the new Guy
Posted : 5 Mar, 2011 01:27 AM
You are right Chevy, I am still waiting for a answer from James about Nicodemus!
Here it is a again, just in case James stumbles upon a "church father" who has written something on it.
According to re-formed doctrine man is dead in sin and cannot seek God without first being born again. If this is true then how is it Nicodemus was searching Jesus out asking questions about the kingdom of God? If you answer "Nicodemus was born again" then why did Jesus tell him he must be born again?
James, I am surprised, for all your learning you don't know these things.
Some questions for followers of Calvin from the new Guy
Posted : 5 Mar, 2011 03:44 AM
Calvinism makes my head hurt and is one thing that I ride the fence on. I would say that Super anti Calvism is wrong and Super Hyper Calvism is wrong.
Listen to some of these reformed theology guys and I would say they have a lot of stuff more right than alot of whats out there until they get into this weird doctrine of election/predestination thing.
I've kind of put the whole debate into into this section where when all is said and done if I understand everything there is to know about God then what a puny God that would be.
