Ro 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Ro 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
James replies:
Evidently there were people causing division in the church at Rome.
I think in these late days, we also need to include the collective wisdom of the church in "the doctrine which you have learned".
There is always some one coming along and saying that all Christians are wrong, and only THEY have it right.
If their doctrine goes against what 99% of Christians have believed, then there is a 99% chance they are WRONG, and hence they should be "avoided".
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
James replies:
To grow in our understanding of God's Word, and NOT be confused by false teachers, we need to study church history, and systematic theology, and see what the consensus of Christians believe on each subject in the Bible.
We need to decide what we believe about Jesus, about man, about God, and Salvation, etc.
James wrote - "To grow in our understanding of God's Word, and NOT be confused by false teachers, we need to study church history, and systematic theology, and see what the consensus of Christians believe on each subject in the Bible."
Is that how you find all your answers/understanding? You search for the highest percentage of what Christians believe[d] and claim your belief/doctrine based on that?
James wrote -"To grow in our understanding of God's Word, and NOT be confused by false teachers, we need to study church history, and systematic theology, and see what the consensus of Christians believe on each subject in the Bible."
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"Judgement Day"
The sheep and the goats are being seperated, suddenly someone speaks up "wait Wait! This isn't how it works" God replies "what do you mean?" Someone anxiously cries out "We voted on this, it's not supposed to work this way. God chuckles, but then a tear forms in His eye as He carries on seperating the sheep from the goats.
I am the one who says you post to many Scriptures.
This is why:
Are you aware that Jehovah Witness' train scriptures together like you and say it is "scriptural proof" Jesus is Michael the Archangel?
Did you know the Mormons do the same thing to "prove" God lives on a planet circling the star kolob?
I even heard people do it to justify smoking marijuana?
So when you do it to justify Calvinism it doesn't impress me at all. In fact it has the opposite effect.
On the other thread I addressed the Scriptures you posted to support Total Depravity, you ignored the reply. You also stated the only way to determine truth is to string scriptures together and it would be childish to ask for a scripture that stands alone to support the triune nature of God. I gave you one and said I could give 10 more stand alone scriptures. You ignored that reply also.
I appears to me that the ONLY way to support TULIP is by stringing scriptures together, each just slightly twisted. The cumulative effect brings you to the desired meaning.
James wrote - "To grow in our understanding of God's Word, and NOT be confused by false teachers, we need to study church history, and systematic theology, and see what the consensus of Christians believe on each subject in the Bible."
Is that how you find all your answers/understanding? You search for the highest percentage of what Christians believe[d] and claim your belief/doctrine based on that?
James replies:
That is a good question. If a person did that, it would be a very safe way of interpreting Scripture, but I would not recommend that be the only way, because I think each of us, individually are responsible to read the study the Bible, and to decide what the Bible says.
Here is a very good sentence to memorize:
"Church history should not rule our interpretation of Scripture, but it should GUIDE our interpretation of Scripture."
So, I place great weight on what ALL our brothers and sisters have decided about the Bible, and I can tell you when I am out of step with consensus.
For instance, if you take the whole of church history, musical instruments are not used in church worship. Now, I believe we are allowed to do this, and I am out of step on that one.
But the point is, I KNOW I am out of step with consensus on this.
We should not be ignorant of what the Body of Christ has come to believe about Scripture.
This is MUCH wiser and more reasonable than the typical modern American Christian attitude of:
"Hey, I got the Holy Spirit and I got the Bible, and that is all I need buddy!"
We want to wise, and the book of proverbs says three times, that "there is wisdom in many counselors".
We modern Christians have many counselors, who had the Holy Spirit, and they are the body of Christ and we need them.
I am the one who says you post to many Scriptures.
This is why:
Are you aware that Jehovah Witness' train scriptures together like you and say it is "scriptural proof" Jesus is Michael the Archangel?
James replies:
Yes, they do that and they are the worst offenders with that trick. The reason is, they IGNORE CONTEXT, and use the whole jumping around trick to make the Bible say what they want it to say.
Twosparrows continues:
Did you know the Mormons do the same thing to "prove" God lives on a planet circling the star kolob?
James replies:
Well, yes. but their trick is the Joe Smith wrote three other books that contradict what the Bible says.
twosparrows continues:
I even heard people do it to justify smoking marijuana?
James replies:
Hmmm...okay.
twosparrows continues:
So when you do it to justify Calvinism it doesn't impress me at all. In fact it has the opposite effect.
James replies:
NOT ONE verse is taken out of context! And although you have no respect for HISTORIC, CREEDAL Christianity, YOU SHOULD.
Twosparrows continues:
On the other thread I addressed the Scriptures you posted to support Total Depravity, you ignored the reply.
James replies:
I apologize for that. There are so many that question what I say, that sometimes it is like trying to stop a dust storm with a shotgun. I will try and find the post on Total inability.
Twosparrows continues:
You also stated the only way to determine truth is to string scriptures together and it would be childish to ask for a scripture that stands alone to support the triune nature of God. I gave you one and said I could give 10 more stand alone scriptures. You ignored that reply also.
James replies:
Well, hold on. You gave a verse that MENTIONED the three together, and that verse did NOT SAY that each one was God!!
Just mentioning the three together does NOT prove that God is triune in nature.
twosparrows continues:
I appears to me that the ONLY way to support TULIP is by stringing scriptures together, each just slightly twisted. The cumulative effect brings you to the desired meaning.
James replies:
"The cumulative effect brings you to the desired meaning."
Well, twosparrows, in systematic theology, you WANT to see every verse in the Bible on a given subject.
That is HOW you make a decision, because that way you are examining ALL the evidence for a particular position.
As long as you make sure you are not taking a verse out of context, and that your interpretation does not make the Bible contradict itself by letting the clear verses interpret the unclear, etc.
You make the list and examine ALL the verses on that given subject.
But if you are frustrated.........
Well, try to see if from my viewpoint for a second....
I give a verse where Jesus says, " No man can come to me"
and then you turn right around and say, "No, anyone can come, see here is verse that says, whosoever, and that means everyone can come..."
Then I give a verse where Jesus tells Nicodemus, that "You cannot see or enter the Kingdom of God unless you are born again". And you say, "No, you believe first and THEN you are born again..."
I give a verse where Jesus says, "I lay down my life for the sheep", and then you say, "No, Jesus died for everyone who ever lived..."
The entire chapter of Romans 9 is Paul TEACHING that God has chosen a particular group of people for Himself, and that it was NOT because of anything any of them had done, but ONLY because God chose to show them mercy.
When I ask people to come up with a better more ironclad example of teaching Christians than Paul did with the twins in their mothers womb, all I get is people telling me what a bad person I am for believing it!!
And all the while, THEY are the ones who ignore that what I believe is supported by so many Christians all through church history!!
