C'mon, listen and look at the scriptures James is posting. James can only speak and give out those scriptures as to what he was taught and given to bring him into the Calvinist Reformed church, like a robot... It is very obvious to ME, that he does not know these scriptures passages as apart of his own spiritual conviction and well being, from his personal encounter with Jesus Christ, but he has been taught these scriptures as apart of the brainwashing that got him into the church.
James replies:
Well, you have turned this into a personal attack haven't you.....
When I was a new Christian, I attended the First Baptist church in my town. While waiting for church to start one day, a elderly man came up behind me, and said:
"Uh, you oughta read Romans....there's a lot of meat in the soup in Romans."
And he went and sat back down. Now, when I got home that day, I read Romans. When I got to the ninth chapter, I read it, and when I was finished
I shrugged my shoulders and I said to myself: "Well, God has a right to do with His creation as He pleases." And I went on reading. And although other things in Romans were a big deal to me, God choosing whom He would save, was no big deal to me.
I had never even heard the word "Calvinism", but that Day I did what a Christian was supposed to do. I read a passage of Scripture, and I ACCEPTED IT.
I did not ignore it, or try to explain it away, or contradict it, I just accepted the PLAIN explanation of God being the one who saves, and Him having the right to show mercy to whom he would show mercy. (That's from Romans 9 by the way.)
ET said:
Its no different than any of these other cultic churches that use certain scriptures to lure people into the fold. If you ask or tak about something that is not apart of their doctrine, they are lost in answering your questions.
James replies:
I have never been lost answering anyone's Questions on this board. I have tired of CORRECTING the same lies over and over, and I have tired a bit of answering the same questions over and over, but most of that is no ones fault, it is just the situation of Modern American Christendom.
So let me get this straight, so far you have said I am brainwashed, and I belong to a cultic church.
Here is a link to my church website: http://covenantofgracechurch.org/modules/tinycontent1/
If you knew any church history, you would never say anything like that about any Reformed church, but maybe if you just click on the link and check out the website a bit, you might retract your statement.
ET continues:
You are to be preaching Jesus, and not Calvin, Calvine never saved anybody, not even himself. Calvin did not died on the cross for our sins, but Jesus did, and Jesus Christ is our hope of salvation and eternal life, NOT CALVIN...
James replies:
Yes, this is the MAIN lie that several people on this board have done over and over no matter how many times I tell them the truth.
I will try one more time with you, but I am SO tired of refuting this particular lie.
Ahem...... the Terms "Arminianism" and "Calvinism" are NICKNAMES FOR FIVE POINTS OF DOCTRINE.
Although the term Arminian, comes directly from students of James Arminius, the nickname "Calvinism" did not exist UNTIL long after John Calvin was dead.
The idea of Predestination for example was taught by Augustine, in greater detail than Calvin did, and Augustine lived a THOUSAND years BEFORE Calvin.
A "Calvinist" is MERELY a Christian who believes FIVE POINTS OF DOCTRINE, and that is all. There is no worship of John Calvin, because that would be idolatry.
There are many Calvinist churches, and several other denominations that are what is called four point Calvinist churches. Do you have a Reformed baptist church in your town?
Calvary chapel? Presbytarian? did you know all baptist churches except freewill baptist, believe in Calvinism? Baptist churches call Calvinism, "the doctrines of Grace"
Now, one thing you really need to know if you wish to attack, or refute what I believe is to go after Reformed theology.
You see, Calvinism is just five points of doctrine, and that is a small part of what I believe!
Maybe you should read that sentence again......
I am REFORMED. That ONE word describes SO much! So here is your one stop shopping, if you wish to go after what I believe and attack, or hopefully...
Just find out what the HISTORIC Christian faith actually is in detail.
Ready? Here is the motherload, and believe me, this will tell you almost everything I believe concerning the Bible:
It is called the Westminister Confession of Faith.
If you read that, and then find out about Amillenialism, then you will know almost everything I believe about the bible.
ET said:
Every person who receives and belives in the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished works on the cross, and that Jesus came into the world as God Himself to died for our sins to reconcile us back to Himself, THESE (WE, THE WHOSOEVERS) ARE THE BELIEVERS WHO HAVE BEEN CHOSEN, ELECTED, CALLED, AND PREDESTINED( which only mean chosen, elected, and called to a certain destination) FOR GOD'S ETERNAL GLORY TO LIVE FOREVER AND REGIN WITH JESUS IN HIS KINGDOM!... cut and dry case.
James replies:
Everything you say here, I agree with, except I wonder what you mean by Predestination "only meaning chosen, elected, and called to a certain destination."
I mean, God chose to save me, before the world was made, and not because of anything I would ever do, but just because He chose to show me mercy, and that "certain destination" is heaven, and a new earth, in paradise, with a perfect body and perfect nature, and you want me to act like it is no big deal???
You know, ET, I have noticed about you for a while now. One post you act like you believe God is sovereign, and the next one you don't.
You have never seemed consistent in what you say on this group.
ET continues:
So stop proselytizing the word, and speak the word of truth with spiritual ediification, knowledge and understanding so that someone somewhere reading this forum MIGHT be saved based on and according to what God through Jesus Christ did, and not what you have been taught twisting God's word based on whatCalvin THOUGHT in his own interpretaion of God's word... coz, it shoooo ain't by revealtion of God's word throguh the Holy Spirit, because that would make for division beween God and what Paul writes that God gave to him for our spiritual learning. This is why there is so much division with scriptures, man's Calvin's interpretation, fighting to win over the God thorough His Holy Spriti's revelation of what God is saying.
James replies:
So, stop discussing anything Christians disagree on,because you don't like the bickering, and because a non-Christian might be reading this, and it might keep them from accepting Jesus?
You do realize that most of the posts concerning Cal-minain wars, are STARTED by other people???? Check out the latest threads and SEE who STARTED them.
ET continues:
James you are basing your spiritual walk with Christ on what Calvin has said, and not on what God SAYS...
James replies:
That is a LIE. I know you have read at least one of the many complaints that I post TOO MANY Scriptures.
That SHOULD be a CLUE don't you think? I mean if the main complaint about a person is that they post too many Scriptures, then how in the world can you make such ridiculous statements like that?
And if you have not realized it yet, you should know that my interpretation of Scripture is NOT private religious hunches, but what PROTESTANTS HAVE HISTORICALLY BELIEVED! Your lack of knowledge about the historical Christian faith, is the only reason I can guess that you would say something like that.
I feel like if I posted the Apostle's Creed on this group, Twosparrows, you and Phillipjohn would say, "What is this Calvinist twisting of Scripture?"
ET continues:
God's word MUST line up throughout the scripture, line upon line, and it does not when considering your Calvinsits views with God's truths.
James replies:
Specifically what? Pick one of the five points, and tell me which one is out of line with Scripture.
As usaul your points are excellent,i find it amazing that Arminians will just throw away huge blocks of scripture to achieve their ends!I myself think truth(whether it turns out to be what I would like it to be or otherwise)is always the most important thing to seek!
I find it interesting that the only people who agree with James are other Calvinists and believers that read the the Bible apart from reformed catechism don't agree. Shouldn't that tell you something??? :goofball:
Heeeey Steve!:applause:...where U bennn? Nice seeing you back... benn missin U, dude... hpe you're back to stay for a while.:yay:
Also, James knows I love him, and he does makes some good biblical points, HOWEVER, and sorry, BUT, many of the points he is making are Calvin's understanding and misintrepertation of scripture. There should be spiritual insight coming from within a person of what they know to be true that they have experienced from God in His word, and not from Calvin's interpretation of what he thought God was saying.
James, I don't know about what other Baptisit or Methodist churches teach or preach, and I do know bits about church history when it comes to what the Bible has to say, and the bits I have studied according to what I find to be important for learning. But man has always written his own history the way he wants it to be remembered, and most of the time its all wrong, and not facts. So I don't rely on church history according to man's views, only the basic church history that is written, because there are a lot of untruths and drawn out lies also written in church history.
There are so many different versions of church history written by many different men, just as there are many different Bibles written by men who didn't understand God's word or His works of the Holy Spirit in the believer therefore, they interpret the Bible one way and write thier OWN Bibles to say what they would like for the word to say, and claim God has given it to them.
God doesn't work like that, can't find it no where in the Bible where in He gave more than one man the say word, yet the men did not come into agreement with each other. Calvin disagreed with some fo Augustine's writings and Biblical interpretaions, Calvin then took the word adn wrote what he interpretated God to be saying from Augustines' work, Then Arminus came along and took Calvin's work and interpreted it with what he thought God has given him, and did not come inot agreement with Calvins... this is why I stick with what Paul wrote and depend on the Holy Spirit of God to REVEAL God's truths to me. The apostles never came into disagreement with each other when it came to the word they had been taught by God through Jesus. So if Calvin, and Augustime, and Arminius ALL heard from God, why are their teaching in disagreement with each other?
I have studied the doctrines and teachings of both Calvin and Arminus in seminary, and I still find that both of these men were men of God, BUT that both got a lot WRONG in their own intrepretation of God's word.
The Holy Spirit cannot disagree with God's word, so one must conclude that Augustine, got some of his teachings wrong, Calvin got some of his teaching all wrong, and Arminius got some of his teachings all wrong, becasue the three don't agreee on the same subjects.
Again, I think Calvin, Arminus, Agustine and even Luther left us with some nice spiritual work, but thier work is not apart of my spiritual learnings about God and eternal gloy of His kingdom. Because all these guys were themselves trying to figure out God and be the mind of God, which no one can do. However Luther is the only one who has confessed that he was in search of God imself trying to understand and figure out how He worked.
I would rather believe what God has written by Paul than the three who hit and missed in God's word.
As Paul write, to be of Paul, Appolos, Calvin, Augustine, Luther, Arminus or anyone else, is carnal minded, therefore, I would rather be of Jesus Christ, the person who has dones something for me.
BTW, and who was Joseph Smith, didn't he read the word and interpret it to mean something God did not say, and then wrote his own Bible and started his own church?
And who was Charles Russell, didn't he read the word and interpreted it to mean what he thought God was saying, and started his own church and wrote his own Bible?
So whose report shall we believe? what Paul write and the church Jesus started, or what these men said in thier own written Bibles, and started their own churches?
I would rather believe what Paul wrote, and what Jesus taught.
