My last post on Salvation Calvinism Style used humor and sarcasm to bring out some truths. However lets take a serious look at these doctrine.
The entire Bible points to Jesus, what does Calvinism point to? Let's take a look:
1) Total Depravity of Man = points to man and his condition.
2) Unconditional Election = points to man, how he is elected.
3) Limited Atonement. = points to Jesus, but limits His atonement.
4) Irresistible Grace = points to man, his ability to resist grace
5) Perseverance of the Saints = points to man unable to lose his salvation.
The true Gospel of Jesus doesn't go into great depth about man except that we are 100% unable to earn our own salvation and are destined for hell without Jesus. The Gospel calls men to turn from their ways and turn to Jesus. If a man will believe in the Grace of God (the unmerited Love of God) as shown through Jesus and the cross then God will give you a new Spirit, make you a new creature and adopt you as His own child.
How all this practically works out in the spirit of man is a mystery of God who is Spirit and can do it however He determines best according to the situation. One thing is fairly certain: God doesn't follow a rule book written by men.
IF.....you knew Church history you would realize that your post here makes no sense.
First off you are complaining about "five points".
Please pay attention here:
There would BE no five points except for the Arminians!
The followers of James Arminius drew up FIVE points of doctrine that they disagreed with ALL the protestant churches on, and presented them to the churches!
There was a huge council drawn up, and after days of deliberating, on the five points of the Arminians, the churches REJECTED ALL FIVE POINTS, and declared them heresy!
The ENTIRE reason, there exists today, five points of doctrine that are nicknamed "Calvinism" IS BECAUSE OF THE ARMINIANS.
Twosparrows said:
The entire Bible points to Jesus, what does Calvinism point to? Let's take a look:
1) Total Depravity of Man = points to man and his condition.
James replies:
The Bible not only tells us about God, but also about mankind.
This FACT is ignored by most Christian churches in this day, and not surprisingly, Christians have a MUCH higher opinion of fallen mankind than what the Bible teaches.
2) Unconditional Election = points to man, how he is elected.
James replies:
WRONG. It points to GOD, and that He is sovereign over ALL of His creation, including mankind. It shows that God has, from the very beginning, decided to show mercy and love to more people than any of us could count.
3) Limited Atonement. = points to Jesus, but limits His atonement.
James replies:
The Bible teaches that Jesus death was all powerful to save, and His death ACTUALLY PAID for the sins of ALL of God's people at the VERY MOMENT He died! Jesus' death was NOT the Arminian, vague kind of sentimental, "well if you repent then Jesus death would apply to you". It was specific and pointed and ALL powerful, and if you are a Christian, then you should know that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY FOR YOU, and that your sins were paid for the moment Jesus died.
4) Irresistible Grace = points to man, his ability to resist grace
James replies:
To God, who accomplishes whatever purpose He decided upon, and NO MAN can thwart His will!!!
5) Perseverance of the Saints = points to man unable to lose his salvation.
James replies:
Arminians are divided over whether or not a Christian can lose their salvation.
The truth is, just like the Bible says, that whoever God chose, He will ultimately glorify them, and NO ONE will snatch them out of His hand.
If you are a Christian, God who began a good work in you, WILL make certain that He completes it, and God will CAUSE you to persevere in the faith until the end.
You are as safe and secure as any Saint in Heaven!
C'mon, listen and look at the scriptures James is posting. James can only speak and give out those scriptures as to what he was taught and given to bring him into the Calvinist Reformed church, like a robot...:excited: It is very obvious to ME, that he does not know these scriptures passages as apart of his own spiritual conviction and well being, from his personl encounter with Jesus Christ, but he has been taught these scriptures as apart of the brainwashing that got him into the church.
Its no different than any of these other cultic churches that use certain scriptures to lure people into the fold. If you ask or tak about something that is not apart of their doctrine, they are lost in answering your questions.
Nothing less than prositituing ...oooopppps sorry, I meant proselytizing God's Word of truth for new converts.:ROFL::excited::excited::rocknroll:
PRAISE GOD NOTHING CAN COME UP AGAINST THE TRUTH EXCEPT FOR THE TRUTH ITS SELF !
James may God open your understanding in the turht of His divine word.
You are to be preaching Jesus, and not Calvin, Calvine never saved anybody, not even himself. Calvin did not died on the cross for our sins, but Jesus did, and Jesus Christ is our hope of salvation and eternal life, NOT CALVIN... Every person who receives and belives in the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished works on the cross, and that Jesus came into the world as God Himself to died for our sins to reconcile us back to Himself, THESE (WE, THE WHOSOEVERS) ARE THE BELIEVERS WHO HAVE BEEN CHOSEN, ELECTED, CALLED, AND PREDESTINED( which only mean chosen, elected, and called to a certain destination) FOR GOD'S ETERNAL GLORY TO LIVE FOREVER AND REGIN WITH JESUS IN HIS KINGDOM!... cut and dry case.
So stop proselytizing the word, and speak the word of truth with spiritual ediification, knowledge and understanding so that someone somewhere reading this forum MIGHT be saved based on and according to what God through Jesus Christ did, and not what you have been taught twisting God's word based on whatCalvin THOUGHT in his own interpretaion of God's word... coz, it shoooo ain't by revealtion of God's word throguh the Holy Spirit, because that would make for division beween God and what Paul writes that God gave to him for our spiritual learning. This is why there is so much division with scriptures, man's Calvin's interpretation, fighting to win over the God thorough His Holy Spriti's revelation of what God is saying.
James you are basing your spiritual walk with Christ on what Calvin has said, and not on what God SAYS... God's word MUST line up throughout the scripture, line upon line, and it does not when considering your Calvinsits views with God's truths.
But I suppose having you in somebody's church is much better than having you hanging out on the streets high and drunk, idle not knowing nothing about the Lord:zzzz::ROFL:..:party: ...walkin away shaking my head:zzzz:
Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, Elvis has left the building.... say good night Elvis..." good night, Elvis:bow: :rocknroll::yay::dancingp::excited::bouncy::zzzz::applause::waving::bow::bouncy::bow:
BTW, James, you still have not answered my questions about YOUR personal up close experience and encopunter with the Lord.
What was your defining momnet that brought you to your knees to realize that you were lost and needed a Saviore for the remission of your sins?
Evey person who believes in Jesus Christ has experienced this moment as a teastimony of their salvation, even in the Bible we see tell of God prickking thier hearts and brought them inot belief.
Surely, you have experienced this passionate moment, if you were changed from sinner to saint fit for the kingdom of God.
Oh, I forgot something... Acts chapter 2, tells us that the apostles continued day and night teaching the people the doctrine they had been taught by Jesus to the people. The apostles' docrtrine which was the doctrine of Christ which they had earned from Jesus, not thier own doctrine, nor a doctrine from man, nor doctrine of devils.
The apostles doctrine was true based upon what Jesus had taught them, all true doctrine points to Jesus and not to man. The apostle's teachings lined up with scripture from the Old to the New Testament.And the people were able to search the Bible to see if what they were saying was of a truth becasue there were some flase teachers who clled themselves apostles, teachings lies, and when hey people search the scriptures for themselves, they found out that they were lairs and not teaching the true doctrien of Jesus.
Any group of people who teach as Paul says, another gospel that IS NOT the doctrine of Christ of the gospel of Jesus Christ, is a false doctrine if it does not linie up line upon line with the gospel.
Speaking Calivinism, means its a false doctrine, because it does not point to Christ ALONE, but it points to what Calvin said based on how Calvin interpreted what God said.
Calvinism odctrine is twisted vs. Jesusim is God's word of truth, and I would rather have Jesusim... becasue the teahcings of Jesus brings hope for the whole world to be reconciled back to God our creator sinless through repentance.
James...are you tryin to Save Us All...or...Convert Us All ???
James replies:
I would like to know why you are asking ME this, when TWOSPARROWS is the one who started this thread?
Why are you not asking him???
I certainly WOULD like VERY MUCH to show Christians where the Bible teaches that a true Christian can NOT lose their salvation.
I think if a Christian believes the can lose their salvation, they soon end up being legalistic, and may not have any peace at all about their true position before God and will be an ineffective Christian for the whole time they believe this.
Bad theology dishonors God and hurts people in proportion to its badness.
