In the thread, "Who does it glorify?" PJ asked me what planet I am from. First of all I am not from a planet at all. I do live on one and were I ever to leave it then I would be from a planet but for now I am not from one.
I do want to make a serious point though. The question about the salvation of those whom Jesus healed is a ridiculous question for two reasons. First, Jesus did not live during the New Testament. The New Testament did not go into affect until He died. So any healing he did prior to His death would have been to people who, according to PJ, were not saved. Secondly, faith in the ability of Jesus to heal us is what "saves" us in the first place. Anyone who responds to Jesus in faith is received by Him regardless of the level of their faith or their knowledge of His salvation plan.
As long as you believe that you can receive Jesus as your savior you will never have a fully developed understanding of salvation. For instance, PJ, you talk alot about salvation but never once mention redemption. We are not saved by Jesus, but rather we are redeemed by the shedding of His blood. Salvation is a gift that comes with redemption but the purpose of Jesus coming here was not to save us but to redeem us back to His Father who was our rightful owner in the first place.
So in the cases of Jesus healing people it is wrong to assume that any of the people in the Gospels could have been saved, at least by what you imply, since none of them were redeemed yet.
The post is not about salvation, Thunder, no more than it is about redemption. The point of the post is to shed a little light on faith, and faith being considered by the lord as that of man, and not a gift as many imply, faith is man's response in light of any given scripture.
There are those that continually say that it is impossible to have faith if you are not born again, because of there false doctrine, of total depravity and total inability and resistible, irresistible grace.
The intent of the post is to illustrate the action of faith of those that where not yet born again.
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Who does it glorify?
Posted : 26 Jan, 2011 07:11 AM
Does it Glorify man when Jesus, made mention of Man's faith?
Mt 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
Mt 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
Mt 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Mr 10:52 And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
Do you suppose Jesus was confused, he pointed out these people had faith and they where not even saved?
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Who does it glorify?
Posted : 26 Jan, 2011 07:11 AM
Does it Glorify man when Jesus, made mention of Man's faith?
Mt 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
Mt 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
Mt 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Mr 10:52 And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
Do you suppose Jesus was confused, he pointed out these people had faith and they where not even saved?
I am well versed on faith, and salvation and redemption, and according to scripture fully understand it is not as you have stated it, no more than man's faith is the lord's faith. Jesus is not lost.
There is more than enough confusion without adding to it Thunder.
I really enjoyed the first part of your post; you think outside the box. Although God is Omnipresent, I think there is more of Him outside the box than in...lol. Then you started sounding like a calvinist or a arminianist or some kind of 'ist' , idk, maybe a reindeerist? ; )
If you think people were not saved until Jesus Christ was crucified then you should ponder this verse.
Mat 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
My response was to the question, "Do you suppose Jesus was confused, he pointed out these people had faith and they where not even saved?"
If they were not saved it was because they lacked redemption. If their faith is what allowed them to be healed it was not the same faith that saves us but rather a faith in the ability of Jesus to heal them as a prophet of God and not as the Redeemer. Therfeore salvation had nothing to do with their being healed. If that is the point then so what?
I doubt that Jesus was confused about what their faith was in. And I wonder what that has to do with whether or not the people who were healed were saved which is what it sounds like Pj is saying here. Either that or I am not able to understand PJ's point because it doesn't make sense to me as is sometimes the case.
I am neither a Calvinist or Arminianist. I think they are both wrong on at least two points each! I guess that makes me a 6 point Calvarminiast right? LOL :ROFL: Thankfully, I choose to be a redeemed believer in Jesus and not a religious fanatic like either Calvin or Arminius who obviously had more faith in their Theology than in Truth.
Very well put, Thunder. I do not find Calvin lacking in two points, but I do think he discredits himself by his willingness to only see what Augustine taught.
Unfortunately, we do the same thing today. Only believing the doctrine we have been taught by a man, and denying the validity of others. I recently discovered how other beliefs can be valid when debating Infant Baptism. I had always been told, and believed, it was not biblical. That is just not true. They have sound biblical support for it. I still don't believe it is right, but it is not just nonsense.
I don't understand what Bible faith is. I have faith that everytime I go to my library my Bible will be there. I that bible faith.
There are two kinds of faith IN the Bible. There is faith in God's power and ability to save and to heal and there is one's personal belief system. Which of these is bible faith?
