53 Jesus said to them, �Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.� 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
It has been proposed that we continue with our discussion on differences between Catholics and nonCatholics.
Well....I believe part of it was figurative of taking on Christ's righteousness and sacrifice, but He did ask us to "do this in remembrance of Me". Adventists do communion/foot washing about 4 times a year. I think doing it every week would remove a lot of the meaning eventually. If not for everyone, for some.
1 Cor. 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you. I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. 18For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 19For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. 20When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. 21For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. 22What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink, in remembrance of me. 26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
33Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. 34And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
This Doctrine has been disputed for over a few hundred years, but not even Luther disputed it (as a matter of fact Luther defended it against his fellow rebellers... who preached against it).
As such I have no illusions of changing anyone's mind in just a few paragraphs.
This really was meant for St. Chuck as I answered one question (of his very involved) set of questions and I now await his own forthright answer to mine.
To begin to understand this Doctrine you have to ask yourself
�If Jesus was speaking figuratively....why did thousands leave Him on that day?�
If His words were a figure of speech such as ��I am the Tree�� or �I am The Door��. If Jesus was speaking metaphorically�why would those that have followed Him for days and days and miles and miles�walk away from Him?
Why or How could anyone that had seen Jesus do the Miracles He accomplished�walk away from Him because of a �figure of speech�?
No�they heard Jesus tell them that they must
�Gnaw��
gnaw (n�)
v. gnawed, gnaw�ing, gnaws
v.tr.
1.
a. To bite, chew on, or erode with the teeth.
b. To produce by gnawing: gnaw a hole. See Synonyms at bite.
c. To erode or diminish gradually as if by gnawing: waves gnawing the rocky shore.
2. To afflict or worry persistently: fear that constantly gnawed me.
v.intr.
1. To bite or chew persistently: The dog gnawed at the bone.
2. To cause erosion or gradual diminishment.
3. To cause persistent worry or pain: Hunger gnawed at the prisoners.
�on His Body��. They heard Jesus say to them that they must Literally �Eat and Drink� His Blood (as would a cannibal). Being of such a mind they did not ask Jesus to explain further�having not the �docile submissive nature of complete Love and Surrender � that The Apostles and His True Disciples had � they left Him to Start There Own Religion Based on Christ�s TEACHINGS (but without �having to be cannibals�yuck!).
Jesus did not go after them! Thousands walking away and Jesus did Not Go After them? Instead he turned to His Apostles and asked
�What about you guys?�
I can see them looking at each other and then at Jesus and then at Peter (who answered)
�68 Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.�
Another question you have to ask yourself is
�Why did The Apostles believe in The Real Presence of Christ in The Eucharist? Why did The Church from the very beginning believe and practice this Doctrine? Why did it take over 1600 years for some man to point out the error that Christ�s Church was supposedly making?
I think that in the context this is metaphorical. The preceding verses:
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Joh 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (KJV)
Jesus is saying that He is the bread that comes down from heaven that gives eternal life as opposed to the manna which only gave temporal life. We have a common saying that a person walks, talks, eats, and breathes a particular thing that is of great interest to them like art or music or cars or sports or whatever. Why can't this saying of Jesus be the same thing?
This is a very demanding statement. Jesus is saying that His followers must eat and drink Him. We must be consumed with consuming Him as our bread of eternal life. Of course people are going to walk away. They don't want to have to live up to this kind of commitment and Jesus is drawing a line in the sand with His followers. Peter's response is the appropriate response to this.
Joh 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
Peter recognizes that Jesus is the only source of "the words of eternal life" there is no where else to get this kind of bread except from Jesus and therefore the consumption of everything that is of the character and nature of Jesus is required of believers because He alone is the WORD, the Bread of Life.
Since I don't believe communion is commanded in the NT and the idea of it is a bad twisting of a passage that specifically refers to the third cup in the Passover meal I can't believe that this has anything to do with communion either. That is a pretty big leap.
Since you addressed the following specifically in your post I will address it here:
I have asked the same simple question no less than three times, in two threads. You have NOT answered the question as anyone can see by going to 'Ask a Guy'---titled: 'To clear up any misconceptions'. on page two (at the end of the thread)...asked twice..the other is in "peacemakers"
Since you say you have answered this question....you always tell the truth; right?....then it should be no trouble, yes no trouble at all for you to copy and paste your answer here...yes?
So allow me to post the same simple little question for the forth time.
**"Why do Catholics buy and light candles in their churches for their dead relatives so they can lessen their time spent in purgatory? "**
Remember Archimedes....since you "already answered" this....it's easy!...just cut and paste
I will be more than happy to answer this question, but it was you who said you would answer first this question...YOU set the parameters, not me. In case you missed the question here it is for the 5th time:
"Why do Catholics buy and light candles for their dead relatives to lessen their time spent in purgatory?"
I sincerely wish would hurry up and answer the question on 'buying and lighting candles to get your dead relatives out of purgatory early' like you promised; because I am anxious to address the Catholic doctrine of "Transubstantiation"! After all Archimedes this is how you interpret the verses you posted...isn't it? You are not 'allowed to interpret' them any other way.
If Yeshua was saying to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood,then He was telling the discioles to violate the Word of YHWH.
I have come to do your will oh GOD.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Lev 17:10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Lev 17:12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
Lev 17:13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.
Lev 17:14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.
I believe the better translation would be to say:
'This my body'
This then shows the elements,the bread and wine are representing the body and blood of Yeshua.
??? Why is Trucker saying � This is my body � is a � Bad Translation � It is used twice in the NT KJV�the word ( is ) was added because there is no filler word ???�No matter what Concordance/On-Line translation is used it still says & means the samething�
Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, ((( This is my body ))) which is given for you: this do in rememberance of me
1 Corinthians 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, ((( Take, eat: ((( this is my body, ))) which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me....xo
