Personally, I had spent my whole life at school in a Catholic school, had myself attending the sermons at the Catholic Church, and that was before I converted to be a Christian. My question is, why the Catholics think that Mary is different with other chosen women? For example, if Mary said no to carry Jesus in her belly, then it might be the next chosen woman named Martha who would carry Him, and that Martha would now fill in the Novena and hail prayer, not "Hail Mary" but "Hail Martha"? This is just a question out of curiosity, I've asked my Catholic friends about this and they all answer the same as "Mary is the mother of Jesus", then I replied back as "Martha could be the mother of Jesus", they didn't reply back. Could someone here give me a scripture on why there are Novena prayer and Hail Mary prayer?
I do adore Mary as she has been one of the greatest and blessed woman at all time - she was totally the woman of God with huge faith within her, but I can't find anywhere in the Bible about we should pray Novena or Hail Mary prayer.
PS. Yeah.. You guys can discuss it here rather than "messing" around in Barefoot's topic lol
then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Matthew 12: 47-50
I don't know any Catholic people and know very little about what they believe; but it shouldn't matter who man believes his mother was--- only who He said she was.
Jesus let us know Mary is to be put on no pedestal.
I wonder how is it possible to attend a Catholic School for �my whole life� and not have the first clue about The Catholic Church? To begin with not every Christian is a Catholic, but every Catholic is a Christian (pay attention�there will be a pop quiz). Sorry�my sarcasm shows my incredulousness!
Your question as to why is Mary not just another person such as say�yourself? I mean why would God not choose someone off the street? As you suggest�it could have been any woman!
All God has to do is �Control� how she grows up and her Character and her State of Mind and�WAIT! God does not do these things. He gives us Free Will. So God had to carefully choose the woman that would be The Ark of The New Covenant.
God started with Mary�s parents, Joachim and Anne; they were both devout Jews. At three years of age Mary was Dedicated to God and turned over to the Temple. Her name is of no importance�it could have been Martha or whatever. What is of importance is that she was very�very�very�vErY special.
As for her Virginity�
Some on this site love to cite the Inerrancy of Scripture. How The Holy Spirit �speaks� to them with the correct interpretation, yet when confronted with any Scripture that contradicts their interpretation they either deflect the question or ignore it.
If a teaching contradicts Scripture, the teaching must be wrong. This is inrefutable!
Acts 1:15-16 (New International Version, �2010)
15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16 and said, �Brothers and sisters,the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus.
Were these 120 Christians all of the same mother? The same Greek word {(adelphoi) and its feminine counterpart (adelphe)} is used here as in Matthew 12: 47-50. That word �Brethren� can have numerous meanings:
It may refer to male relatives that one is not a descendant of and that are not descendant from one (such as a blood brother, step-brother, nephew, uncle, cousin, etc.) or non-relatives such as neighbors, fellow workers, co-religionists, and friends.
Because of this broad usage, we can be sure that the 120 "brothers" in Acts 1:15 did not have the same mother. Neither did Lot and his uncle Abraham, who were called "brothers" (Gen. 11:26-28, 29:15).
The reason relatives were called brothers or sisters was because in Hebrew, there was no word for cousin, nephew, or uncle. So the person was referred to as simply a "brother." Linguistically, this was far easier than calling the person the son of a mother�s sister. Since the New Testament was written in a dialect of Greek that was heavily influenced by the Semitic culture, many of the Hebrew idioms (like "brother" having multiple meanings) intrude into the Greek text. So, the fact that Jesus had adelphoi does not mean that Mary had other children.
These things were taken for granted by the early Christians, who were familiar with the biblical languages and who knew that Mary was a lifelong virgin. In A.D. 380, Helvidius proposed that Mary had other children because of the "brothers" in Matthew 13:55.
He was rebutted by Jerome, who was arguably the greatest biblical scholar of the day.
The Protestant reformer John Calvin seconded Jerome: "Helvidius has shown himself too ignorant, in saying that Mary had several sons, because mention is made in some passages to the brothers of Christ" [quoted by Bernard Leeming,Protestants and Our Lady, 9].
Martin Luther agreed with Calvin that Mary was always a virgin, as did Ulrich Zwingli: "I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary" [E. Stakemeier, De Mariologia et Oecumenismo, K. Balic, ed., 456].
We have been Christians for just a few decades. The Church has been Christian for two thousand years! Some on this Forum have admitted to being Hypocrites�to �not hearing The Holy Spirit correctly��yet you allow them to dictate to you what is or is not Orthodox?
Check for yourself what you read here. There are Dozens and Dozens of Bibles�each one claiming to have the Correct Interpretation and Translation. You will find many�many teachers of the faith.
Pray�.pray�.pray and read Scripture and search the writings of The Fathers of The Church and their arguments against Heresy. Read what The early Church had to say about these very same issues we argue about on this Forum. Are we that much more informed than those that were willing to Die for their Faith? Much more Knowledgeable of The Faith then those that Did DIE for The Faith?
Look around this Forum�do you see Unity? Do you see One Voice? Do you see One Prayer? I submit to you that what you see is Good Christians that Love their God with all their Hearts�trying to interpret Scripture the best that they can and then finding others that agree with them and huddling together�until there is a disagreement!
Sounds like Sheep�doesn�t it? Think we need a Shepherd? Of course Christ is Our Shepherd, but what if Jesus left us a Vicar? To �feed His Sheep��to �feed His Lambs�? Which do you think Jesus wants us to do? Go around like lost sheep�following anyone that �sounded� like Jesus�who�s Voice �sounded� like Jesus� Voice or an Actual Shepherd here on earth entrusted by Christ and Empowered by Christ?
"Not every Christian is a Catholic, but every Catholic is a Christian"
*Does the above statement by Archimedes need to be addressed?......I think not..the statement speaks for itself!...*sigh*
*The Virginity of Mary....who cares! .... what difference does it make if she was a Virgin all her life or not?...good grief!
*Archimede's proof that Mary was always a Virgin is no proof at all. To explain: In the entire New Testament only one word is used for 'brother' and 'brethren' so there is no possible way outside of the context of the scripture to determine it's specific meaning.
*Allow me to provide a scripture with some context to it that indicates a specific meaning: " But I did not see any other of the apostles except James the Lord's brother."...'context'
* Mark 3:21 makes reference to Jesus's "family".
*I could go in depth, but why? According to Archimedes none of us are allowed to interpret the Bible for ourselves. Only the Catholic church is allowed to interpret the Bible and pass the 'true' meaning to us. *deep sigh*
Although my heart aches for you Archidemes, I am thankful for your posts on Catholic doctrine. They give a opprotunity to expose Catholic doctrine's disagreement with the Word of God. I can only hope and pray that through your posts the eyes of catholics and non-catholics will be opened when they see Catholic doctrine compared with the Bible. My prayer is especially for the Phillipinnes where the majority is catholic, ie : that catholic women may come on this site and see the doctrines they have been taught do not agree with the Bible. Then God willing they will dig deeper and find a personal relationship with Jesus, and be born again a new creation in Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Your additional references are really cool, however... all they prove is that Jesus was carried in the womb of Mary who is in the line of David......What does this have to do with your original post? How does it prove the eternal virginity of Mary? You are exhibiting classic 'cultic' behavior.
I did consult the Strongs concordance because words have meanings. Is it to go outside of scripture to look a word up in the dictionary? I would say "no, it is to go deeper inside scripture". Are we not called to "Examine the scriptures"
Acts 17:11
" Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they........ examined the Scriptures everyday to see if what Paul said was true."
*Steve why would Paul praise them for not trusting his words and going to the Scriptures themselves if only the "catholic church fathers" are allowed to interpret Scripture? Here we have a example of what you would call one of the earliest "catholic church fathers" praising people for 'just not taking his word for it' and instead : interpreting the scriptures for themselves.
Steve, why doesn't the catholic church follow the teachings and example of one of it's 'earliest church fathers' ....Paul???
Paul did not have The New Testament at the time Paul said this. So Paul was speaking about The Old Testament. Why didn't Paul bring up "Jacob's" accordion to show just what he meant by what he just told them so that they could understand what he just told them so that they could understand...(where was I?).
Chuck, when I look up the word Sophistry in the Dictionary...your photo is next to it! :ROFL:
