Author Thread: Are good people promised heaven?
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Are good people promised heaven?
Posted : 22 Nov, 2010 07:44 AM

When good people die, do they go directly to heaven as so many believe? Since life here is so short and eternity is so very long, shouldn't we want to clearly understand the truth on this crucial subject?

To comprehend what the Bible teaches about heaven, we first need to understand that there is more than one heaven. Often the Bible refers to heavens, plural. In fact, three distinct "heavens" are mentioned in the Bible.

The first of these is simply the sky above us�earth's atmosphere, containing the air we breathe. It is in this heaven that birds fly and clouds give rain and snow (2 Samuel 21:10; Job 35:11; Isaiah 55:10).

The second biblical heaven is the realm beyond earth's atmosphere, what we commonly call outer space. Here we find the "stars of heaven"�the planets, stars, constellations and galaxies of this awesome physical universe (Genesis 22:17; 26:4; Deuteronomy 1:10; Isaiah 13:10).

The "third heaven" is different still�it is the location of God's majestic throne (2 Corinthians 12:2).

Obviously the deceased, Christian or not, are not floating around unnoticed in the first two heavens. No one seriously believes they can be found drifting about the sky or in outer space. Therefore they must be in the third of these heavens, right?

Many people assume so, but the whole argument about heaven being the reward of deceased Christians runs into a brick wall with these words from the apostle Peter's first sermon: "Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day . . . For David did not ascend to heaven . . ." (Acts 2:29, 34, New International Version, emphasis added throughout).

God called this same King David "a man after My own heart," one who would "do all My will" (Acts 13:22). Surely, if anyone had a right to heaven, wouldn't it be a person such as David? Yet Peter tells us God did not carry David off to heaven. The only one who had ascended to heaven, said Peter, was Jesus Christ (Acts 2:29-35).

Was Peter mistaken? Did he simply misspeak?

We might assume so, but notice what the Gospel of John says: "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven�the Son of Man [Jesus Christ]" (John 3:13, NIV).

Jesus never promised Christians heaven after they died. The New Testament plainly says that of the faithful men and women who had gone before�such spiritual giants as Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and Moses, to name some of those listed in Hebrews 11�not one has ascended to heaven. In fact, says verse 39 of Hebrews 11, "These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised" (NIV).

If they aren't in heaven, where are they? And what was it they were promised, if it wasn't heaven?

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Are good people promised heaven?
Posted : 22 Nov, 2010 08:34 AM

"good people" who haven't been born again, accepted Christ as Saviour, repented of their sins, and had their name

written in the Lamb's Book Of Life will spend eternity in hell. No one is promised tomorrow-------much less heaven.



Deborah

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DontHitThatMark

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Are good people promised heaven?
Posted : 22 Nov, 2010 09:52 AM

They're sleeping! And like a dreamless sleep where there is no conscious passage of time, their next conscious thought will be of Jesus calling them forth from the graves. Death will be like a twinkling of an eye. They close their eyes in death, and open them in eternal life. Just a blink. :winksmile::rocknroll:



:peace::peace:

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Are good people promised heaven?
Posted : 22 Nov, 2010 11:12 AM

Depends on your definition of good...

1) If your are good as Jesus defined good: Only the Father is good then the answer is YES, but impossible.

2) If you define good as made good in the eyes of God through the blood of Jesus the answer is YES.

3) If you define good as being a good person compared go most people then the answer is NO.

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Are good people promised heaven?
Posted : 22 Nov, 2010 11:48 AM

@ everyone:



I will let the Word of YHWH speak on this matter.





Mar 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

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Are good people promised heaven?
Posted : 22 Nov, 2010 12:06 PM

two, a man that speaks with the Spirit, you will know them by their fruits. Most of the unsaved believe by their works or good deeds, they will be saved. Many Christians believe they will receive their reward when they die.



No consciousness in the grave

Many people are surprised to discover what the Bible really says about what happens to us when we die. Yet, when we remove our preconceived notions, the answer becomes quite clear from the Scriptures�and it is immensely encouraging to all.

Notice what God inspired King Solomon to write about the state of the dead: "For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten" (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

Scripture clearly tells us that at death we cease to know anything. The dead are unconscious and unaware. All our emotions, thoughts, knowledge and feelings go to the grave with us. No consciousness continues living in another place or state. We do not have an immortal soul that goes on living somewhere else. In Ezekiel 18, verses 4 and 20, God plainly tells us that "the soul who sins shall die"�not continue living apart from the body.

The patriarch Job echoes Solomon's words. He writes: ". . . Man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he? As water disappears from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dries up, so man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep" (Job 14:10-12).

Job goes on to ask the most crucial question about life after death: "If a man dies, shall he live again?" (verse 14). His answer is found in Jesus Christ's own words.

Death's mystery solved

The key to the mystery of life after death is revealed in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. He said, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die" (John 11:25-26).

It is because Christ was resurrected from the grave that we can be assured we, too, will be resurrected (1 Corinthians 15:12-21). Throughout the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians, the apostle Paul eloquently argues this important fact�that since Jesus was resurrected from the grave, He will resurrect all those who have been faithful to Him.

Job, as we saw above, raised the question of life after death. Notice how he answered it: "O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time [the time of the resurrection], and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? All the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee . . ." (Job 14:13-15, King James Version).

Job understood that life after death comes about by God's divine power. Speaking of each person whom the Father would call to understand His truth, Jesus explains, "I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44).

The promise of life after death hinges on Jesus Christ's resurrection (1 Corinthians 15). The fact that Jesus Christ was resurrected to become "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18; Revelation 1:5) means that He has opened the way for others to follow in a resurrection from the grave. The raising of the dead is a mighty and magnificent part of God's great master plan. Through it, mankind has the opportunity to live again, as faithful Job knew and confirmed.

The doctrine of the resurrection is listed among the fundamental doctrines of the Bible (Hebrews 6:1-2). It is the hope of all true Christians, for it nullifies and makes void death itself (1 Corinthians 15:54).

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Are good people promised heaven?
Posted : 24 Nov, 2010 07:29 PM

I think we need to examine exactly what's being talked about by Peter and look at what else scripture says about what happens when anyone dies.



First, lets look at the ascending to heaven dealio, shall we?



Genesis 28:12- Jacob sees angels descending and ascending on a ladder between heaven and earth.



2 Kings 2:11 Elijah ascends to heaven in a chariot of fire.



Genesis 5:25; Hebrews 11:5 - Enoch is taken by God.



So, your logic isn't quite as sound as you lay it out to be. Men have ascended (gone up to) heaven- flesh and blood men who had not died. Spiritual beings- angels- have been ascending and descending between heaven and the earth for quite a while now.



The passage in Acts 2 is not talking about David's SOUL not ascending to heaven- it's talking about his body, or that David had not been resurrected (as Jesus was, in bodily form) and ascended into heaven IN that bodily form. Psalm 16:1-11 refers to the Messiah- NOT David. Peter's goal during this sermon was to show how the Messiah- Jesus- would be exalted far above David, and that David himself acknowledged that fact. This passage, contrary to what you've tried to push it off as, does NOT confirm that David's soul did not go to heaven upon death. It only affirms that David is not exalted as the Messiah was.. and is.



John 3:13 is not, once again, saying that no man's soul has gone or ascended to heaven. this expression would have been, and was, actually, perfectly clear to the people Jesus was speaking to: That to be perfectly acquainted with the concerns of a place, it is necessary for a person to be on the spot. But our Lord probably spoke to correct a false notion among the Jews, viz. that Moses had ascended to heaven, in order to get the law. It is not Moses who is to be heard now, but Jesus: Moses did not ascend to heaven; but the Son of man is come down from heaven to reveal the Divine will.



When we compare that with 2 Corinthians 5:1-9; 1 Cor 15:35-48; Hebrews 9:27; Revelation 6:9 and Revelation 20:4, we see a different picture. Scripture does not say that man cannot enter heaven- it says flesh and blood cannot enter heaven. Our soul is not flesh and blood, and until the resurrection of the dead in Christ, our soul is naked, or without a house/tabernacle in heaven with God. Our souls go directly to heaven upon death, but ONLY if we've been born again.



As far as your original question- no one is "good" enough to go to heaven because we've all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) and the wages of that sin is death (Romans 6:23). The only people who are going to heaven, are the ones who've entered in through the narrow gate..ie Jesus Christ. (John 14:6; Acts 4:12)

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Are good people promised heaven?
Posted : 1 Dec, 2010 01:06 PM

"Is there life beyond the grave, or does death end it all?"

"If a man die shall he live again?" Job 14:14



What Is Man?

In order to understand what happens to man after death, we must first investigate the origin, nature, and constitution of man himself.

"What is man that thou art mindful of him?" (Psa. 8:4) There are but two possible answers:

(1) Man is a mere animal who evolved from unknown ages past through a process of evolution or

(2) Man is a spirit-being who was created by an act of God.

If the first is true, then all questions can be easily answered. The dead have ceased to be, and all who die will likewise become extinct.

The bible affirms the second to be true: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Gen. 1:27), "Formed from the dust of the earth...." (Gen. 2:7), "A little lower than the angels,---crowned with glory and honor" (Psa. 8:5). There is a great difference between Man and Animals. Man was created in the image of God, animals were not. Adam was a son of God.

Whole nature of man is described as body, soul, and spirit. "I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:23). The "body" is the fleshly or material part. The "soul" sometimes refers to physical life (Psa. 78:50 "did not spare their soul from death.") and sometimes refers to whole man (Acts 2:41 "...added about 3000 souls...").

The word "spirit" when denoting the human entity, is a specific term and designates that part of us which is not susceptible of death and which survives the dissolution of the body. "Soul" is a generic word and its meaning must be determined, in any given instance, from the context in which it appears. If I asked you to define "bark" for me, you could not possibly know whether I mean by it the sound a dog makes, or the outer covering of a tree. However, if I said "Bark is thicker this winter than usual" you are able to determine the meaning of the word by the context in which I use it. So also with the word "soul". Its meaning depends upon the context in which it us used. It may refer to a person, to animal life, intellectual nature in contrast with the higher spiritual nature and the lower physical nature, or may be used as a synonym for the never-dying spirit of man. "Soul" and "spirit" are sometimes used interchangeably: �....you will not leave my soul in Hades� (Acts 2:27) and (Luke 23:46) "...into thy hands I commend my spirit." The meaning being that the "spirit" is the immortal nature of man.

Paul wrote of the "outward man" and the "inward man" in 2 Cor. 4:16. The spirit dwells within the body. Daniel cried, "I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body..." (Dan. 7:15). "The Lord formeth the spirit of man within him" (Zech. 12:1). Man, then is a spirit enshrined in a body, the spirit being the true self. By our body, we are allied to the earth. By our spirit we are in the likeness of God. Our spirit signifies wind, air, the rational part of man, or the undying soul. The spirit of man is the part knows the things of man (1 Cor. 2:11). The fact that man�s soul came not from the dust, but from the eternal God, justifies belief in the immortality of the soul and its survival at the body�s dissolution.

What Is Death?

Physical death is the separation of the spirit from the body. The dust shall "return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it" (Eccl. 12:7). "The Body without the spirit is dead" (James 2:26). The bible does not say "the spirit is dead without the body" but that the "body is dead without the spirit." The spirit does not die, only the body. On the cross Jesus said "into thy hands I commend my spirit" (Lk. 23:46). Paul spoke of death as a "departure from this life". "I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ..." (Phil. 1:23-24). "The time of my departure is at hand..." (2 Tim. 4:6). In 2 Cor. 5:1 Paul spoke of the tabernacle being dissolved "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved...". In verses 4-8 he speaks of being "at home in the body" and "absent from the body."

The miracle of bringing persons back to life in Biblical times was simply the returning of the spirit to the body. Elijah prayed that the son of the widow of Zarephath might be restored to life. "I pray thee, let the child�s soul come into him again...and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived" (1 Kings 17:21-22). When the Ruler�s daughter was raised by Christ in Luke 8:55 it is said "her spirit came again." Spirit beings exist apart from material bodies. Both God and angels exist apart from material bodies. The spirit of man may exist with or without a physical body. David did not consider his dead child non-existent. "I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me" (2 Sam. 12:23). That the dead continue to live is further emphasized by Christ when he said to the dying penitent robber, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43).

The spirits' disembodied state between death and the resurrection is taught in the account of the transfiguration of Christ with Moses and Elias (Matt. 17:1-8). He appeared and talked with them. Moses had been dead about 1500 years and his body buried in an unknown grave. Yet both he and Elias were still in existence, retaining their personal identity and individuality. Mark 12:18-27 "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am (present tense) the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" Then Christ added "God is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Are The Dead Conscious?

What is the condition of the soul after death and before the resurrection? Is the departed soul conscious or unconscious?

Luke 16:19-31 - Two great facts can be learned from this teaching:

(1) death is not extinction; the spirit survives the dissolution of the body,

(2) disembodied spirits are conscious between physical death and the resurrection, and either happy or miserable, depending upon the life they lived on earth.

Eccl. 9:5 is often used to prove that the dead are unconscious: "the dead know not anything." Note the next verse which says "under the sun." This passage has reference solely to what the dead can know or do "under the sun," that is in the world in which they once lived. After death ones activity ceases on earth, hence he knows nothing about what is happening on earth.

Where Are The Dead?

Where is the spirit after it leaves the body? The soul is not in the grave with the body, nor does it hover near the grave; nor has it entered some other body. Any idea of transmigration or reincarnation of souls is at odds with biblical teaching. The bible says the spirit returns to God who gave it (Eccl. 12:7).

Where then do souls go at death? Is it to their eternal abode or to some intermediate abode? Matt. 25:31-46 describing the final judgment says "Come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...", "...Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire...And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into everlasting life." Jesus said in John 14:1-4 "...In my Father's house are many mansions... I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." Hence, souls do not enter their eternal state, either heaven or hell at the moment of death.

The place where all disembodied spirits dwell between death and the resurrection is Hades. In Luke 16 the spirits of both Lazarus and the rich man were in Hades. "And in Hades he lifted up his eyes" (Luke 16:23). The spirit of Jesus went into Hades at his death (Acts 2:27, 31). "For David saith concerning him...Thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades...". When a man dies his spirit goes to Hades, his body to the grave.

Hades is divided into two compartments: Paradise (abode of righteous) and Tartarus (abode of wicked). At the resurrection the righteous will leave paradise for Heaven and the wicked will leave tartarus for hell.

Four words are translated "hell" in the KJV:

1. Hades--the place to which all spirits go at death, regardless of their moral character. Signifies only the region of disembodied spirits. The grave denotes only the receptacle of the body.

2. Gehenna--denotes the final abode of the wicked, the hell of fire. Used 12 times in the Greek NT.

3. Tartarus--Used only one time in the Greek NT. 2 Peter 2:4 "...God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment." (the compartment of Hades occupied by the wicked between death and the resurrection as they await the final judgment.) This is where the rich man was in Luke 16. In this place he suffered torment. Although he was in anguish, he was not in Gehenna. "The Lord knoweth how to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment" (2 Pet. 2:9).

4. Paradise--refers to the abode of the righteous spirits in Hades. "Today thou shalt be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). Both Jesus and the robber were in paradise (Hades) together. Hence paradise, here, does not refer to heaven for Christ did not go to heaven when he died. After three days, Jesus was resurrected and 40 days later ascended to heaven. The word paradise is also applied to the eternal home of the redeemed, which they will inherit in their resurrected bodies. This "paradise"(Rev. 2:7; 2 Cor. 12:4) refers to a place of delight or pleasure garden, which heaven will certainly be.

(5.) Sheol, an Old Testament word translated "hell" parallels the Gr. word "Hades." Both mean the unseen realm of departed spirits. The word does not refer to Gehenna, nor to the literal grave, the abode of the body. However in the KJV it is translated "the grave", "the pit", "hell".

After death there can be no opportunity for one to change his life�s record. Death cannot work any change in a person�s character. When death comes, the spirit goes to Hades where a "great gulf" separates the saved from the lost. The gulf is "fixed". What one did in life will determine his/her eternal destiny (Rom. 14:12; 2 Cor. 5:10). It is important that you prepare today. Tomorrow may be too late.

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