Thread: Bible Scholars Talk About Dave MacPhearson's The Rapture Plot
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Bible Scholars Talk About Dave MacPhearson's The Rapture Plot
Posted : 23 Oct, 2010 11:30 AM
Bible Scholars Talk About Dave MacPhearson's The Rapture Plot
On the Internet there are articles that claim to discredit Dave MacPhearson's books about the origin of the pre-tribulation rapture. MacPhearson had said that John Darby, the early English dispensationalist, got the idea of the pre-trib rapture from Margaret Macdonald.
On http://www.according2prophecy.org/macphers.html
it says "Since the early 1970's, Dave MacPherson has aggressively attacked the pretribulation rapture by attributing its origin to Margaret Macdonald, whom MacPherson considers to be occult influenced. He claims J.N. Darby derived the pretribulation rapture from her and this was done secretly, lest the true origin of the rapture be discovered. MacPherson develops this idea in his books The Incredible Cover-Up and The Great Rapture Hoax. It has been successfully demolished in works by R. A. Huebner, Thomas Ice, and Gerald Stanton, to name a few."
Then, on http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?ui...59&topic=20136
it says
"A book is still circulating, published under several different titles, offering a FALSE PREMISE about young Scottish woman, Margaret MacDonald. This book is used by a growing number of people to DISCREDIT the TRUTH about the Biblical PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE of the church. But I�ll say, right up front, that �The Incredible Cover-up� is BASED ON A FAULTY IDEA. IT DOESN�T STAND UP TO EITHER BIBLE OR HISTORICAL SCRUTINY. "
MacPhearson on http://www.thewordsofeternallife.com/scholars.html
quotes a number of Bible scholars praising his books on the origins of the dispensationalist pre-tribulation rapture of the church. However, as far as I know none of these scholars who MacPhearson quotes are dispensationalists. I recognize some of them to be Calvinists, who generally are not dispensationalists. Calvinism has its own problems and I certainly do not follow the amillennialism of historical Calvinism. But historical Calvinists did teach that Christians are Israel and did not say God has two separate peoples with whom he deals in different ways, the chosen people, the Jews, and the church.
Here are MacPhearson's quotes:
"(For more than 30 years my pretrib critics have falsely claimed that leading scholars condemn my research. Since those critics are in effect slamming poor, helpless, long-departed Margaret Macdonald, I hereby come to her defense with a few of the many reactions from scholars who generally haven't had a huge axe to grind either for or against the pretrib rapture view. My usual practice, by the way, has been to obtain permission when quoting personal letters.)
Loraine Boettner (theologian, author): "I think that you have done a magnificent job in showing the real origin of the Pre-trib rapture theory." F. F. Bruce (theologian, encyclopedia contributor): "It is strange that Darby should acknowledge his indebtedness to a young lady in Limerick and say nothing about the young lady in Port Glasgow [that is, not acknowledge her pre-Antichrist rapture of part of the church]....If this work of yours can do anything to counter the influence of Hal Lindsey..., you will have rendered a signal service." Superficial----and even devious----scholarship loves to repeat Bruce's 1975 surmise that pretrib was "in the air in the 1820s and 1830s." Hired critic Thomas Ice knows that this wasn't a scientific conclusion (does reliable data rest literally "in the air"?), and Ice moreover has ignored Bruce's later statements complimenting my evidence!
Gary DeMar (theologian, author): "THE RAPTURE PLOT is the never-before-told, true story of the plot----how plagiarism and subtle document changes created the 'mother of all revisionisms.' A fascinating piece of detective work."
Robert H. Gundry (theologian, author): "As usual, Dave MacPherson overwhelms his critics with a superior knowledge of the primary sources. His is a rare combination of historical research and investigative reporting. Those who would refute him have failed to outhustle him, especially in the tracking down of information uncatalogued in academic libraries." Superficial scholarship is aware that the first----1973----printing of Gundry's THE CHURCH AND THE TRIBULATION stated on pp. 185, 187: "The likelihood is that Edward Irving was the first to suggest the pretribulational rapture....the outpouring on Margaret Macdonald did not include revelation of a pretribulational rapture...." But careful scholarship has long known that after Gundry saw my Macdonald findings, he deleted his Irving statement and substituted favorable comments about the Scottish lassie----changes appearing in his classic work since the 1980's!
John H. Kromminga (Calvin Sem. president emeritus): "The material appears to be well researched, and this impression is confirmed by the excellent comments you cite from well-established evangelical commentators." Harold Lindsell (church historian, author): "...must reading for anyone who is interested in the [pretrib] origins...."
C. S. Lovett (pastor, author): "You have to be, in my opinion, the world's authority on Margaret."
Peter Marshall (pastor, author): "I am in emphatic agreement with you on your thesis."
Walter Martin (researcher, author): "[MacPherson has produced] a fascinating historical detective story...with surprising and not easily refutable conclusions."
J. Gordon Melton (editor): "According to the best scholarship available, the pretribulation, premillennial eschatology originated among members of the Catholic Apostolic Church as a result of a vision and revelation to Margaret MacDonald. See Dave MacPherson, THE UNBELIEVABLE PRE-TRIB ORIGIN." (ENCYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN RELIGIONS, 1978) Gary North (author, church historian): "...Dave MacPherson has inflicted a deep wound on the pre-trib camp by showing that a teenage Scottish girl named Margaret Macdonald...came up with this doctrine...." (Dispensationalism in Transition, Nov., 1988)
Harold J. Ockenga (theologian, author): "You have done your research well."
J. I. Packer (author, church historian): "From my own explorations of the origins of Darbyism I judge that you are presenting facts fairly, and I am glad you are, for I also regard dispensationalism as an unhappy aberration."
J. Barton Payne (theologian, author): "MacPherson has once and for all overthrown Ernest Sandeen's assertions that the Irvingites never 'advocated any doctrine resembling the secret rapture' and that to connect J. N. Darby and early dispensationalism with Irving's church is 'a groundless and pernicious charge'....For serious students of the history of dispensationalism the study of MacPherson's discoveries has become a must." (Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society, Winter, 1974)
The Prairie Overcomer (Canada): "...MacPherson's case seems to be watertight." (July, 1974)
Reformed Review: "MacPherson has done excellent historical research." (Spring, 1985)
Ian S. Rennie (author, church historian): "...it is likely that [Margaret's revelation] was grist for Darby's mill." (DREAMS, VISIONS AND ORACLES, 1977)
R. J. Rushdoony (theologian, author): "Dave MacPherson has been responsible for major change in the eschatology of evangelical churches by his devastating studies of some of the central aspects thereof. In THE RAPTURE PLOT MacPherson tells us of the strange tale of 'rapture' writings, revisions, cover-ups, altercations, and confusions. No one has equalled MacPherson in his research on the 'pre-trib rapture.' Attempts to discredit his research have failed...."
Bible Scholars Talk About Dave MacPhearson's The Rapture Plot
Posted : 23 Oct, 2010 11:32 AM
The Seminary Review: "[MacPherson] shows conclusively that Margaret Macdonald was the originator of the concept." (June, 1984) Oswald J. Smith (pastor, author): "You have some excellent thoughts here that will be difficult to answer."
Merrill C. Tenney (theologian, author): "...the connection between Margaret Macdonald and Irvingites and Brethren is reasonably well established. You have done a valuable piece of research."
The Witness (oldest & largest Darbyist Brethren magazine in England): "What [MacPherson] succeeds in establishing is that the [pretrib] view outlined was first stated by a certain Margaret Macdonald...early in 1830." (April, 1974)
(The critics who have tried to cover up the above scholarship are basically the ones who've tried to muddy the waters by "discovering" hints of pretrib before 1830. For more on this, see my internet article entitled "Deceiving, And Being Deceived.")"
The New Testament itself disproves the pre-tribulation rapture theory.
In I Corinthians 15: 51-52 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52.In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. "
When is the last trumpet?
Revelation 8: 2 says "And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."
Then Revelation 8: 7 tells us "The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up."
The First, Second, Third and Fourth Trumpets occur in revelation 8, and then the Fifth Trumpet sounds in Revelation 9: 1.
Moving on to Revelation 9: 13-14: "And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14. Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates."
This is the Sixth Trumpet. So, the last Trumpet, the Seventh Trumpet, would sound at the end of the tribulation. At that time Christ will appear. There is no Bible verse saying that Christ will come twice, at the beginning of the tribulation and again at the end, as dispensationalists say to try to get around I Corinthians 15: 52 and Matthew 24: 29-20.
Christ himself teaches us in Matthew 24: 29-30 that "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30.And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
I have heard followers of dispensationalism claim that Paul did not know about the Book of Revelation when he wrote I Corinthians 15: 52, and therefore he could not have meant that Christ will appear at the Seventh Trumpet according to Revelation 8 and 9. If a dispensationalalist says this, he has just denied the inspiration of the Holy Spirit on Paul's writing. Paul may not have known about Revelation 8 and 9, but the Holy Spirit did when he inspired Paul to write that we will be changed suddenly at the last trumpet.
But believing in the pre-tribulation rapture is not the only false part of dispensationalism. It appears that some followers of the pre-trib rapture will give it up, but will stick to their belief that the Jews, saved or unsaved, are God's chosen people, and that God will save them all. Whether God is to save only the Jews who are alive at some point in time is not made too explicit in dispenszationalist literature.
And so dispensationalists who give up the pre-trib rapture may move into the Hebrew Roots movement and try to mingle the Old and New Covenants. But Hebrews 10: 1, 7-9 says "For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect...Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.8. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9. Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second."
"He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second." What could this mean? "He" is Christ. The first refers to the Old Covenant, or the law. The second refers to the New Covenant, of faith and grace replacing the law. There is no mingling of the Old and the New, no mixing of the First and the Second.
Bible Scholars Talk About Dave MacPhearson's The Rapture Plot
Posted : 23 Oct, 2010 05:49 PM
Brother you are right on track concerning Pre Trib, it's not going to happen. The old and new testament does mingle together concerning phophecy.
While I have fallen for most of the traps listed so far, I have never believed in a pretrib rapture. Why not? Because early on I had the blessing of being shown the real end time escape plan of God in the Bible that Jesus advised us to seek to avoid the disasters coming first upon all of us (Lk 21:34-36). It is literally all over the place in the Bible--if you look. Yet, as with so many true doctrines in the Bible, it is easy to miss it until someone shows you by bringing all the verses together on the subject. And there are many verses telling us we will be here for the 1260-day/42 month/3.5 year tribulation and must flee to a certain place on earth to survive it (Rev 12:14; Mt 24:15-20). Unfortunately, if you already believe in a counterfeit pretrib rapture escape plan, you are much less likely to look for and see the real one.
When you examine the evidence offered for both plans, there really is no comparison. Knowing the real McCoy intimately allows you to spot a counterfeit easily. As a matter of fact, training to spot counterfeit money is primarily done not through studying examples of counterfeits, but through learning to identify the properties of real money first.
So what stunning heretofore unheard of proofs do I offer to debunk all the pretrib rapture arguments out there? None are necessary. I maintain that the pretrib arguments are weak because they depend upon allegorization, types and shadows, typology, and private retranslation (read: torturing) of the Greek. If you stick to the same literal interpretation approach that Jesus used and taught (John 10:35) you will dismantle them all. Just read the many verses in good modern translations (e.g., ESV, HCSB) for what they plainly say and don't feel pressured to accept what even pretrib scholars say they should say. I cannot stress enough how important it is to have confidence in your ability to think rather than doubt yourself when you come to a different conclusion than the experts.
Also, remember that the Bible was not written so that we must depend on scholars, pastors, or teachers to tell us what it means. It was written for the common man who with patience and clear thinking can piece together the puzzle that Bible prophecy is. Trust your own ability to come to the truth and do not doubt yourself in the face of peer pressure and you will see the rapture "after the Tribulation of those days" where Jesus placed it (Mt 24:29-31; Mk 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-28) or "at the last trump" of the "seven trumpets" just where you would expect it to be.
And here's another helpful hint. Do not focus on side arguments such as "Jesus would never put his bride through the tribulation" or "the church is not mentioned from Revelation 4 through 19". Although there are good answers to all of them if you look (e.g., "we must through many tribulations enter the Kingdom of God" - Acts 13:22), the only way to get to the truth on the rapture is to focus on the rapture prophecies themselves in Daniel, Revelation, the Olivet Discourse, Paul's letters, etc. and piece them together.
You may not have noticed, but those who teach a pretrib rapture have very little to say on what follows the rapture that so many prophecies deal with. Obviously, when you think you will not be here for what prophecy describes, you have little motivation to do the work needed to figure a puzzle like that out. Also having a wrong key assumption throws off all further conclusions making success impossible. For these reasons, I cannot overemphasize how critical it is to get your rapture timing correct if you want to understand Bible prophecy!
It is easy to come up with a prophecy theory that seems right if you ignore most of the prophecies it must fit alongside. On the other hand, volumes of arguments to prove the rapture timing are unneeded when you address all the prophecies in a comprehensive timeline. In fact, it does not contain even one paragraph dedicated to debunking the pretrib rapture, readers come away changing their mind about the pretrib rapture they were taught. (I just had a reader call me to say changed his life who pointed out it also changed his mind on the pretrib rapture.) This happens because it shows how the prophecies fit together only one way, like an interlocking puzzle, leaving only one place for the rapture to fit: post-trib/pre-wrath. (BTW, either term works since the rapture comes immediately after the tribulation on Tishrei 1 which is also the day the wrath of God begins according to In conclusion, as you can tell, understanding Bible prophecy is not easy and requires we believe in our thinking ability and learn to think critically for ourselves. Of course, nothing worthwhile is easy or effortless, and few things are more worthy of our time than understanding all of God's word with its promises to let us know the future and to bless us right now. The good news is now it is possible to understand end time prophecy (Dan 12:10) and there are a few people who have attained this that are teaching others. Speaking as someone who has done so and who through the website has also helped thousands of people to do the same, I offer you my help in learning and following the entire Bible as Jesus stated (Lk 8:21). I hope this article has encouraged you to see this and go after it yourself.
That concludes the seven major pitfalls of prophecy to watch out for. If you study these problems and take the lessons to heart, you can avoid a lot of deception out there and make great inroads towards understanding Revelation and Daniel properly. If you have enjoyed what you have learned and want to short-cut your path towards understanding what Jesus said his servants were to understand in Rev 1:1, then I strongly urge you to consider reading more at the Christian answer.com. You will still need to look up the verses and prove what I say is correct for yourself like a good Berean (Act 17:11), but you can do that in a short time compared to the years it took me to consider every theory out there and piece the puzzle together.
