Beyond the fact that Jesus embodied the office of prophet as well as priest and king, where does the idea that the office of a prophet exists today come from. Many of the authors I've read agree that the office exists and is proven through Ephesians 4:8 when Jesus left the ascension gifts. I've researched this idea and done my own exegesis and can't seem to find any answers. Is the name 'office of prophet' just a label or is it real. I see that there is a definite difference between this and the spiritual gifts of 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 and Romans 12, but how the name came into existence is the question. The same is true for the office of apostle. These authors seem to agree that this is real and exists today too. As far as I understood, they died. I have read that the equals today are people like bishops and leaders of parachurch organizations and the like - those who lay the foundation. I don't believe in cessationism, but I also don't see agreement in the Word for these offices. Please help... Authors on these subjects include: C Peter Wagner - Your Spiritual Gifts can Help your Church Grow, Bill Hamon - Prophets and Personal Prophecy, Mike Bickle -Growing in the Prophetic, Cindy Jacobs - The Voice of God
My response:
Thank you for writing. I am not sure I have the answer, but I will give you my opinion. I will try to give you as much background about why I believe what I believe, but because I want to try to keep this pretty short, I may not cover everything.
I believe there was an office called "Prophet" but I don't believe it exists today. The prophets were God's people who basically were preachers. They called the nation of Israel to repentance, they rebuked them and they exhorted them to follow God. God also often gave them very specific revelations for the people. Some of these revelations were about future events; judgments, about Jesus first and second comings, etc... Remember that when the prophets were most active there was not a Bible for the people to read. They had the Law of Moses, but not the rest of the Bible. In fact most of what the prophets said has been kept for us in our Bible. In other words, their Bible was the prophets.
Today we do have the Bible and I believe that God has closed the cannon of scripture. This is very important because if you believe that (that God has closed the cannon of scripture) then there would no longer be any reason for the office of Prophet. Now that is not to say there is no longer the gift of prophesy, because Paul clearly teaches that there is. However, I don't believe that God gives future revelations any longer. What the gift of prophecy is (in my opinion) is the calling of God's people back to Him. They still rebuke, exhort and teach.
There were 400 years of silence in Israel as far as prophets goes until the time of John the Baptist. John's ministry was different than the rest of the prophets, he made way for the Messiah. Of course Jesus could be called a prophet also, but of course He was much more than that. But let's go back to Israel. Even their cannon of scripture is closed. They might not realize it yet, but they have the same books as us in the Old Testament and no further revelations from God. Now of course we might say that is because they rejected their Messiah and that would be correct, but my point is this, I believe God closed the books and you either accept what He has already said or you miss the boat.
I will come back to this after I address the apostle question. I will also address the authors that you mentioned.
As for the office of Apostle. My belief is that other than Jesus Himself there were and will always be only 12 apostles. Here is a verse which I believe shows that. (Revelation 21:14 NIV) The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Next I believe that apostles can only be appointed by Christ and that He did so in person. He appointed the 12 disciples as apostles if you remember to go out and preach. This included Judas. After Jesus' death and resurrection the disciples decided that they needed to add an apostle to replace Judas and they cast lots: (Acts 1:26 NIV) Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.
I personally think this was a mistake by them. I believe they tried to rush what God was going to do. I believe that Paul whom Jesus personally called to be an apostle on the Damascus road will be the 12th name on the foundation of the city wall, not Matthias. And the fact that there are only 12 names on the foundation of that wall to me shows that there were only 12 true apostles and that there is no such office today. Here is what Paul says about his appointment: (Galatians 1:1 NIV) Paul, an apostle--sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead--
Okay, now back to the part about the authors you have read. I am in no way trying to judge their hearts. I believe these are godly men who want to serve Christ, but I think they are mistaken. One of the reasons I think they are mistaken is that they believe in latter day signs and wonders. Now don't get me wrong, I believe that God has not changed, I believe that He still can and does heal people, change lives, etc..., but I don't believe that He is pouring out His Spirit today as He did with the Apostles. Again when the Apostles were doing signs and wonders there was no New Testament for the people to read. God used these signs and wonders to show people that He was truly speaking through these men. Since as I said earlier I believe that the cannon of scripture is closed, I don't believe there is a reason for God to do signs and wonders through individuals today, because He is not going to give them new revelations for the people. Here is a verse I think is important: (2 Corinthians 12:12 NIV) The things that mark an apostle--signs, wonders and miracles--were done among you with great perseverance.
Notice that signs and wonders and miracles are the mark of apostles. If you believe there is still an office of apostle today, then you have to believe that the persons holding that office can and will do signs, wonders and miracles. My questions is why? I must admit I am not going to be very civil at this point, but most of the so called modern day prophets and apostles get rich doing these signs and wonders and miracles. Yet historically none of the true prophets or apostles were rich, they put Christ first in more then just words.
Here is my final point, if these authors are right and there are prophets and apostles today, then why is it that God is not speaking through them to the whole Church (body of Christ)? Why aren't their letters and messages added to the scriptures? Why would God send a message and only have that message reach a small percentage of the believers? Also why do so many of the messages from these people contradict each other and some even contradict scripture? God will never give a message which contradicts anything else He has ever said.
Again I am not trying to say that these men are evil or anything like that, but I do believe that they are mislead. Emotions are what much of this is based on instead of the Word of God.
yes there are apostles and prophets today and yes they do miracles signs and wonders. Are they rich NOPE. Why would someone get rich from that? I dont understand. Unless your talking about the the men/women on tv...who get caught up in the fame. I'm sure they have the right motive when they start but the devils twists everything.
The prophets do not know the future...they are God's mouthpiece and He uses them to prepare the bride for His return. They only know what the Lord gives them.
If the church is in sin, the Lord will use a prophet for correction.
since you brought up the subject on miracles signs and wonders, tell me what you think about spiritual gifts such as the revelatory giftings.
I have posted the requirements of an Apostle,let us see if these so called modern apostles meet the Biblical mandates.
If they do not ,then what are we to be doing with them?
Act 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
Other then Paul,when was the last time anyone other then the Apostles had seen the risen Christ..
The office of the New Covenant prophets.
1Corin. 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
1Corin 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1Corin 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Corin 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
1Corin 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Corin 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
1Corin 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
1Corin 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1Corin 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints....
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
In the Ephesian Scriptures,How come the modern Fellowships do not let the Prophets be used for the maturing of the Saints,Why is the so-called pastors only being used?
This is the Word of YHWH,we say that we believe the whole counsel of GOD,but do we really...
If we were honest we would admit,That I believe that for the most part,I and most everyone else gives lip service to some of the Word of YHWH..
I agree George! No one today can qualify to be an Apostle, so that's out. My question, why do we not kill false prophets when they prove to be wrong? I just read through the OT and God was never happy with people claiming they were speaking for Him when He was not speaking to them. They always ended up dead. I don't see anything in the NT that allows for false prophecy.
We need to discern the spirits, just because you get a warm fuzzy doesn't mean it is a good spirit from God, demons were heavenly angels at one time and they know how to tickle our senses and give us warm fuzzies. Got to run every thing through a Biblical filter to test the spirits.
Todays christians are very much like the Pharisees,straining out gnats,just to swallow camels..
When the Word,the body and the meeting of the saints is amongst the people,not just the so- called pastors and worship teams (Worship team is not in the Word),then there might be life and a living breathing organism,Known as the body of Christ..
Until then we might have to settle for the Unbiblical Organized Church..
We say that we believe the Lord and His word,yet Do we really believe either the Lord or His word..
With just these two offices,we find there is much misunderstanding.
How then will we believe the Word,since we do not even scrutinize those calling themselves apostles and prophets...
After discussing all the evidence for how a prophet must come to gather us and restore unity among the Bible faithful,
the next question is how do we tell the real McCoy from all the many false prophets Jesus warned us about? To under-
stand this important subject, let us start by reviewing the prophecy of the end times Elijah who John the Baptist partially fulfilled:
Malachi 4:5-6 (ESV) � 5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. 6 And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction."
Luke 1:17 (NKJV) � "He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, 'to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,'and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
Numerous people have come and gone claiming to be this Elijah. Jerusalem today is rife with people under this delu-
sion (as well as under other forms of �Jerusalem Syndrome�). Is it possible that one of these people could be God-or-
dained? What are the signs of the authentic Elijah and of a counterfeit? Is a prophet always someone who predicts the future accurately or who knows personal things about you that he has no way of knowing? What if someone shows up
claiming to be the one that God sent to lead us together in unity again?
What should we ask him?
If we want to wait and watch wisely, we need to be clear on exactly what we are waiting for. The first point to under-
stand is what is a prophet according to the Bible, the only safe source of discernment on this subject. We cannot trust any person�s words or traditions.
Biblical Prophets Defined
The basic definition of a prophet in the Bible is someone who receives direct inspiration from God. They are not always
a prognosticator but they are always a divinely inspired speaker or messenger. We are told that a prophet speaking for God received his inspired message through three possible means: either a voice, a vision or a dream:
Numbers 12:6-8 (NKJV) � 6 Then He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream. 7 Not so with My servant Moses; He is faithful in all My house. 8 I speak with him face to face...
When Moses was soon to die, God formally announced a description of the office of prophet that would continue
after him:
Deuteronomy 18:18-22 � 18 'I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 'And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. 20 'But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.' 21 "And if you say in your heart, 'How shall we know the
word which the LORD has not spoken?'-- 22 "when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament for word #1227 identifies five proofs from Deuteronomy 13 & 18 to
certify a prophet:
1. �The prophet must be Israelite, �of thy brethren� (Dt 18:15, 18)�
2. �He speaks in Jehovah's name��voice of Jehovah� (Dt 18:16) �he shall speak in my name� (Dt 18:19; cf. Dt 18:20),
death being the penalty for false claims to so speak (Dt 18:20; cf. Dt 18:1 ff.; 1Kg 18:20-40)�
3. �Supernatural knowledge of the near future was to be a sign of the authenticity of divine appointment (Dt 18:21-22;
cf. 1Kg 22; Jeremiah 28, esp. Jeremiah 28:17)�
4. �The prophet might perform some other miraculous sign (see Dt 13:1 ff.; cf. 1Kg 18:24; and esp. 1Kg 18:38)�
5. �The final test is strict conformity to (agreement with) the previously certified revelations, by Moses at first and by
the prophets to follow (Dt 13:1-18). The fifth requirement is emphatic, the entire thirteenth chapter being devoted to
it.�
Let�s look at the proofs one by one:
Proof #1: Must Be Israelite
To a Christian, hearing that a true prophet from God today must be a descendant of Israel would sound absurd. Yet, as we saw in the last chapter, God�s plan is chiefly still working through the descendants of Israel as seen in the prophecies of the 144,000, the Woman, and the Two Witnesses. In other words, he meant what he said that he would make them a �nations of kings and priests� (Ex 19:6) which of course will only finally happen during the Millennium with resurrected glorified Israelites (Rev 1:6; 5:10; 20:6). So their rebellion to the Old Covenant did not stop that plan, just made it more interesting and stealthy (dividing them into two houses, one of which would wholly forget their identity as Israelites yet still be used by him). Paul also agreed when he said, �to the Jew first, then to the Greek� 67 and �God has not rejected his people Israel� but has preserved a remnant for his purpose (Rom 11:1-5). All these passages mean what they plainly say, in spite of Christian Replacement Theology. God will continue to use Israelites in this phase of his plan so we can realistically expect the coming Elijah to be an Israelite himself, just as both his predecessors were.
Proof #2: Speaks In Jehovah�s Name
To Christians, this requirement sounds equally absurd. As covered earlier, Christianity teaches using only euphemisms
for God�s personal name called the Tetragrammaton, or �word with four letters�. Thus it seems normal and acceptable to them when a modern �prophet� speaks in the name of �The Lord�, �Adonai�, �God�, �Elohim�, etc., just as Christian Bibles have it. To them it would sound strange for a prophet to stick to the OT precedent of speaking literally in the name of God, which we learned in Part 1 is something like �Y'hovah� (not Jehovah as there is no J sound in Hebrew�unless using the original Germanic pronunciation).
In 2008, I realized that this proof is key and represents a real practical application for knowing the sacred name: to
detect false prophets quickly and easily. How? Check and you will see that every prophet in the Bible speaks in the
name of Y'hovah, even if it was new to them, like it was for Moses (Ex 3:13). Even though our Greek NT manuscripts
have kurios (lord) in its place, we still know from them that Jesus spoke it because he plainly said he taught it to his dis-
ciples (John 17:6). Further, the Talmud records debates on how to properly dispose of the original Hebrew NT
manuscripts since they had the divine name written on them which they were superstitious about destroying68. There are
even Hebrew manuscripts of Matthew extant today (such as Shem Tov) which mark where God's name originally was
used. Therefore all you have to do is listen to an alleged prophet for how he refers to God. If he breaks Biblical
precedent for prophets and does not speak in the name of �Y'hovah�, then he's a false prophet! Case closed, no
exceptions.
Proofs #3 & 4: Knowledge of Future / Miraculous Signs
These two go together since it seems like one or the other goes with every true prophet of God. But as anyone who has
read Revelation 13 knows, these proofs alone are not enough to authenticate a true prophet. The False Prophet will be doing miraculous signs and wonders�even calling fire down from heaven as the first Elijah did�that convince the
whole world to worship the Beast as God and accept his rulership. On the other hand, if someone cannot supernaturally predict the future or produce a miraculous sign then scripturally you can rule them out as being a prophet of God. They ought to do one or the other.
Some may point out that John the Baptist, the first Elijah, produced no signs (John 10:41; although he did have a very
notable birth such that people wondered if he was going to be a prophet�Luke 1:66). However, John did not need any
signs because he never attempted to take authority over anyone to lead them anywhere as Moses did. He simply preached a message of repentance in agreement with the Scripture, matching requirement #5. And in a matter of months his prophecy of the coming of the Messiah, the one who takes away the sins of the world, was fulfilled by the appearance of Jesus of Nazareth.
But, if someone wishes to proclaim themselves Elijah or anyone with authority over you or to guide, lead and gather
God�s people, then they had better produce a sign to show that God sent them. Make sure you ask them to show a
sign of this, according to scriptural precedent. It was for this reason that Moses was given the staff that could turn into a
snake. God did not expect the Israelites to accept Moses� word and he does not expect us who are much more skeptical
today. We should never depend on someone�s word that, �I heard the voice of God telling me to tell you what to do.�
They actually may have heard a voice�but whose voice? We are to test the spirits, not blindly accept their clearly supernatural origin as being from God. Many false prophets have gone out into the world (1 John 4:1). Yet assuming God as the source is the common practice today among believers. We forget to reason that if it really was the voice of God that a person heard, then God would have equipped them with signs so that the rest of us could be sure of this important fact, too.
Proof #5: Conforms to �OT�
Due to the ambiguous nature of the Bible, this proof can be hard to judge. We should therefore not try to disqualify
someone using teachings that we cannot verify as clearly, explicitly stated in the OT. An example of a violation of this is
given in Deuteronomy 13. It says that if a prophet tells people to follow after �other gods which you have not known� that this is clearly a false prophet. Note that it has nothing to do with this person having a failed prediction as Christians
Romans 1:16 Note that all the believers in Jesus were Jews for the first 15 years or so and even today there are many so called �Messianic Jews� or people of Jewish descent who are Christians Shab. 13:5; b.Shab. 116a; j.Shab. 15c
Biblical Prophets Defined
commonly define a false prophet. The False Prophet of Revelation 13 will be telling people to set up a statue of the Beast and to worship it. This is clearly against the undational teachings given to Moses, including specifically the Second
Commandment. But, there is no record that he will ever make a failed prediction. Instead, he will have many signs and wonders that certify him in the eyes of people who do not know about the other required proofs.
Kinder, Gentler, NT Prophets?
This list of requirements from the OT may seem inapplicable to some with the understanding that gentile Christians are
under the NC today, and are not Israelites under the OC. Some even claim that today we have �NT prophets� who are not held to these same standards as these �OT prophets� were. For example, they say a NT prophet does not have to be 100% accurate like an OT prophet nor have to do signs. They believe that God now uses more loving, gentler, Gentile Christian NT prophets (who seem to like giving personal prophecies of prosperity to individuals�with lackluster accuracy). There are several problems with this thinking. Firstly, as has been explained previously, the NC is not made with Christians but with Israel (as before). Moreover, it can be easily demonstrated by reviewing Jeremiah 31:31ff that this covenant is not yet active today. It will start only once the Messiah regathers the people with whom it will be made, the exiled tribes of Israel still scattered throughout the world.
Secondly, there is no mention either in the NC details or in the NT of a change in the office of prophet. Thus, there is
simply no scriptural support for God lowering the standards of prophet or otherwise changing what he laid out in the OT.
The proper conclusion for someone basing their discernment off Scripture rather than subjective or external standards is that these people presenting themselves today as prophets but who do not meet the standards given in the OT are not
some kind of new-fangled NT prophet but are false prophets. However, even assuming these are true prophets of God at
all (without any support for this reasoning in the Bible), this question really does not matter since Malachi speaks of a
prophet coming just like Elijah�the OT prophet. Therefore, this list derived from Deuteronomy is a good starting place
for us to build the discernment we need to tell the true Elijah from the imitators who would seek to deceive you.
Characteristics Specific To Elijah The Prophet
To the general list of what to expect from a true prophet, we can add the other specifics we found in examining the
prophecies related to Elijah:
1. Teaching repentance as evidenced by changed actions that you can find outlined in the Bible as well as doing the
commandments of God that apply to believers. So if an Elijah comes asking for merely changed beliefs like the
church brand of repentance, ignore him.
2. Jesus said Elijah would fulfill all things, which according to Gabriel meant turning people to the �wisdom of the just�
or correct understanding of the Bible. So expect from him radical teachings based on the Bible that depart from what
the institutional church traditionally teaches. So if an Elijah appears teaching much the same as you hear in most
churches, ignore him.
3. Will be calling for people to gather with him to Jerusalem ahead of global disasters prophesied in the Book of Revela-
tion. So if an Elijah appears telling you to gather in the USA, Belize, etc., ignore him.
Of course, some of these details may be off, but if you simply watch and wait for a true prophet according to the five proofs listed above you won't be deceived. And since there are no other prophets promised in the end times prophecies to us, that prophet very likely will be Elijah.
I encourage you to visit my website at www.thechristiananswer.com
Mr Row: what about christians today that are much like the pharisees in Jesus' day? Should we kill them too?
All works/rules and no relationship. They were violent and condemning and stoned or killed people for "sinning" against God. (in their eyes)
So in essence they were anti-christ. Christ walked amongst them who is also God...they killed Him because he didnt fit into their mold of what they thought He would be like so they didnt believe Him when He told them who He was. He healed people on the wrong day...oh my goodness, He forgave sins, He cast out demons...
all those things were good things but the pharisees didnt understand...I wonder why?
Although those things had to take place for our redemption...I think we get carried away sometimes.
Your posts are angry and do not represent Christ.(in my opinion)
Individuals such as your self are why the church is separated. Believers should unite as one army not fight against each other. I imagine what a blow to the enemy we would be if we all united but he works in the church to keep us all separated. He does a good job it seems. we cannot all get along on these forums because of differences or ignorance.
I use to here this preacher say, "Throw a rock into a pack of dogs and the one that yelps will be the on that got hit."
Said: Your posts are angry and do not represent Christ.(in my opinion)
~ You are judging me!! Good girl!! (your wrong, but that is ok)
Said: Individuals such as your self are why the church is separated.
~ Really? How is pointing out the truth or running everything through a Biblical filter a bad thing? If someone today claims to be an Apostle you can know right away they are lying because it is impossible for anyone today to be an apostle unless they are over 2,000 yrs old. Two of the qualifications are being baptized by John, and see and hearing Jesus Christ. So who would be the divider? The truth proclaimers or the deceivers? Like FOX news, I report you decide.
There are people who claim there are these verifiable miracles are happening today by these so called miracle workers that can not be verified. And many (in fact all I have encountered) are no where close to biblical in what they do or what they teach. This makes me think there indeed is something going on and it can only mean one thing if it is not from God, it is from His enemies to deceive many. Satan doesn't mind people worshiping and believing in Jesus, just not the right Jesus. And he tickles peoples emotions to do this. The Bible warns us about this so the "elect" will not be deceived.
I would like to see these so called prophets of today put their money where their mouth is and back up every prophecy they claim is from God with their own life. If they are wrong even one time they will be willing take their own life for proving to be a false prophet. It is abundantly clear from scriptures that a true prophet from God would never be wrong and would have nothing to worry about. The rule was to stop the false prophet from deceiving the people, so they were ordered to kill them. I have no problem with this being the standard we hold to people who claim to be prophets today, if they say, "Thus saith the LORD" and it does not come to pass, off with their head.
Said: we cannot all get along on these forums because of differences or ignorance.
~ I disagree, I think for the most part we do get along despite our differences. Now I will admit there seems to be a lot of what I call "willful ignorance" here. I have watched people (not here) get shown the truth, walk away convinced of the truth, but would not change cause they liked what they were doing or feeling more than conforming to the truth (that I think would happen here).
So tell me about being "slain in the spirit". Is it from God? Is it in the Bible?
Mr Row: I am not going to defend why I believe in certain things when all you will do is demean and condemn me for it.
(Like the pharisees would)
Not everyone here will believe the same as you and you need to behave like a mature adult. If your looking for a website with your denomination only then look somewhere else cuz this ISNT it.
When you were badgering Phillipjohn I private messaged you about your anger issues and here you are again...wondering why the false prophets dont get killed. I bet you have the gift of prophecy and you dont know how to use it and that's why your so upset. OR maybe you were learning and misunderstood or miss-delivered a word from the Lord and got chastised over it.
What about the "christians" with anger issues, what should we do with them? Should we demand they get psychiatric help? Or how about go through a deliverance session? Hey, I could help you with that one.
Let me tell you why your writing upsets me. It reminds me of the group of people that hate everyone that isnt like them. they hurt others (even kill or mame). When stuff like this goes on, it infuriates me because we are christians, that means to be christlike. Did Jesus talk about killing the people who were different than them? Or christians that made mistakes, did God kill them?
so I dont understand why you would say those things.
maybe I will never understand it but I noticed that the men on this chat forum in the past have had your same attitude and been the same denomination. That tells me alot.
I was going to address this in detail last night but decided to sleep on it, I will shelf it until another day, deep emotions are coming into play. Which I find strange, if you "really" believe, why do you get angry? It is those who have doubts that would be the angry ones.
Anyway I just want to say your judgment of me is wrong and way off, if you would like I can share where I am coming from, and why I come across like I do, but I am pretty sure you do not want to hear it. I don't argue what I don't know.
That brings me to to all the "don't judge" hypocrites, where are you?
