The Trinity is Biblical. In Genesis, we have God saying "Let US make man in OUR image..."
In The Bible we have the Holy Spirit being presented as God, God the Father being presented as God, and Jesus being presented as God.
This is probably the deepest thing to understand in Scripture.
Here is a short definition of the Trinity:
Trinity
Excerpt from Concise Theology
by J.I. Packer
�This is what the LORD says�Israel�s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God� (Isaiah 44:6).
The Old Testament constantly insists that there is only one God, the self-revealed Creator, who must be worshiped and loved exclusively (Deut. 6:4-5; Isa. 44:6� 45:25). The New Testament agrees (Mark 12:29-30; 1 Cor. 8:4; Eph. 4:6; 1 Tim. 2:5) but speaks of three personal agents, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, working together in the manner of a team to bring about salvation (Rom. 8; Eph. 1:3-14; 2 Thess. 2:13-14; 1 Pet. 1:2). The historic formulation of the Trinity (derived from the Latin word trinitas, meaning �threeness�) seeks to circumscribe and safeguard this mystery (not explain it; that is beyond us), and it confronts us with perhaps the most difficult thought that the human mind has ever been asked to handle. It is not easy; but it is true.
The doctrine springs from the facts that the New Testament historians report, and from the revelatory teaching that, humanly speaking, grew out of these facts. Jesus, who prayed to his Father and taught his disciples to do the same, convinced them that he was personally divine, and belief in his divinity and in the rightness of offering him worship and prayer is basic to New Testament faith (John 20:28-31; cf. 1:18; Acts 7:59; Rom. 9:5; 10:9-13; 2 Cor. 12:7-9; Phil. 2:5-6; Col. 1:15-17; 2:9; Heb. 1:1-12; 1 Pet. 3:15). Jesus promised to send another Paraclete (he himself having been the first one), and Paraclete signifies a many-sided personal ministry as counselor, advocate, helper, comforter, ally, supporter (John 14:16-17, 26; 15:26-27; 16:7-15). This other Paraclete, who came at Pentecost to fulfill this promised ministry, was the Holy Spirit, recognized from the start as a third divine person: to lie to him, said Peter not long after Pentecost, is to lie to God (Acts 5:3-4).
So Christ prescribed baptism �in the name (singular: one God, one name) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit��the three persons who are the one God to whom Christians commit themselves (Matt. 28:19). So we meet the three persons in the account of Jesus� own baptism: the Father acknowledged the Son, and the Spirit showed his presence in the Son�s life and ministry (Mark 1:9-11). So we read the trinitarian blessing of 2 Corinthians 13:14, and the prayer for grace and peace from the Father, the Spirit, and Jesus Christ in Revelation 1:4-5 (would John have put the Spirit between the Father and the Son if he had not regarded the Spirit as divine in the same sense as they are?). These are some of the more striking examples of the trinitarian outlook and emphasis of the New Testament. Though the technical language of historic trinitarianism is not found there, trinitarian faith and thinking are present throughout its pages, and in that sense the Trinity must be acknowledged as a biblical doctrine: an eternal truth about God which, though never explicit in the Old Testament, is plain and clear in the New.
The basic assertion of this doctrine is that the unity of the one God is complex. The three personal �subsistences� (as they are called) are coequal and coeternal centers of self-awareness, each being �I� in relation to two who are �you� and each partaking of the full divine essence (the �stuff� of deity, if we may dare to call it that) along with the other two. They are not three roles played by one person (that is modalism), nor are they three gods in a cluster (that is tritheism); the one God (�he�) is also, and equally, �they,� and �they� are always together and always cooperating, with the Father initiating, the Son complying, and the Spirit executing the will of both, which is his will also. This is the truth about God that was revealed through the words and works of Jesus, and that undergirds the reality of salvation as the New Testament sets it forth.
The practical importance of the doctrine of the Trinity is that it requires us to pay equal attention, and give equal honor, to all three persons in the unity of their gracious ministry to us. That ministry is the subject matter of the gospel, which, as Jesus� conversation with Nicodemus shows, cannot be stated without bringing in their distinct roles in God�s plan of grace (John 3:1-15; note especially vv. 3, 5-8, 13-15, and John�s expository comments, which NIV renders as part of the conversation itself, vv. 16-21). All non-Trinitarian formulations of the Christian message are by biblical standards inadequate and indeed fundamentally false, and will naturally tend to pull Christian lives out of shape.
Genesis 1:1 "God" here is Elohim. This Hebrew word is PLURAL grammatically but here in context, does not indicate a numerical plural. We see consitantly that a singular adjective (Psalm 7:9) or a verb (Genesis 20:6) used in conjunction with Elohim (plural of 'El) shows that one God is intended. When a plural adjective/verb is used, the context determines whether it means "gods of teh nations as in Exodus 20:3 or whether the scribes were seeking to be more grammatically correct (Gen 19:13; 1:26-27).
We have passages that absolutely affirm that Jesus is Divine, or God. Here are but a few.
Col 1:15-20
Phil 2:6-8
Col 2:9
Hebrews 1:8-9
Psalm 45:6-7
John 20:28-29
John 1:1-2
Hebrews 1:10-12
Psalm 102:24-28
Isaiah 9:6
Here are passages that show that Jesus is the Son, but not the Father.
Matt. 3:17, 6:16-17; 17:5
2 Peter 1:16-18
John 3:16; 5:17; 22; 17:1-5 (Mat 26:39, John 11:41)
Hebrews 1:5; 10:5
1 John 1:3
2 John 3, 9
Jesus is both God and yet not the Father. It is a paradox, but we don't have to understand HOW a paradox works in order for it to exist or be true. Further, it's not a contradiction to say that Jesus is God and yet not the Father. A contradiction statest that something IS and yet is NOT at the same time. For example, if I said my hair is blue and my hair is NOT blue, I've contradicted myself. If we say that God is one but that God is NOT one, we contradict ourselves. But that is not what the doctrine of the Trinity states. It states that God is BOTH One and Three.
How He can be both one and three is a paradox and if we think about it too hard it's likely to drive us crazy. But scripture claims that Jesus is both God and not the same as the Father (Jesus has a separate will than the Father; the Father calls Jesus God and prepared a body FOR Jesus; Jesus prayed to the Father...). So, while I might not understand exactly how that works, I believe it because that's what it says.
The basic problem is that trinitarianism is a nonbiblical doctrine that contradicts a number of biblical teachings and many specific verses of Scripture. Moreover, the doctrine contains a number of internal contradictions. Of course, the most obvious internal contradiction is how there can be three persons of God in any meaningful sense and yet there be only one God.
Below we have compiled a number of other contradictions and problems associated with trinitarianism. This list is not exhaustive but it does give an idea of how much the doctrine deviates from the Bible.
1. Did Jesus Christ have two fathers? The Father is the Father of the Son (I John 1:3), yet the child born of Mary was conceived by the Holy Ghost (Matthew 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35). Which one is the true father? Some trinitarians say that the Holy Ghost was merely the Father's agent in conception - a process they compare to artificial insemination! [109]
2. How many Spirits are there? God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24), the Lord Jesus is a Spirit (II Corinthians 3:17), and the Holy Spirit is a Spirit by definition. Yet there is one Spirit (I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).
3. If Father and Son are co-equal persons, why did Jesus pray to the Father? (Matthew 11:25). Can God pray to God?
4. Similarly, how can the Son not know as much as the Father? (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32).
5. Similarly, how can the Son not have any power except what the Father gives Him? (John 5:19, 30; 6:38).
6. Similarly, what about other verses of Scripture indicating the inequality of the Son and the Father? (John 8:42; 14:28; I Corinthians 11:3).
7. Did "God the Son" die? The Bible says the Son died (Romans 5:10). If so, can God die? Can part of God die?
8. How can there be an eternal Son when the Bible speaks of the begotten Son, clearly indicating that the Son had a beginning? (John 3:16; Hebrews 1:5-6).
9. If the Son is eternal and existed at creation, who was His mother at that time? We know the Son was made of a woman (Galatians 4:4).
10. Did "God the Son" surrender His omnipresence while on earth? If so, how could he still be God?
11. If the Son is eternal and immutable (unchangeable), how can the reign of the Son have an ending? (I Corinthians 15:24-28).
12. If in answer to questions 3 through 11 we say only the human Son of God was limited in knowledge, was limited in power, and died, then how can we speak of "God the Son"? Are there two Sons?
13. Whom do we worship and to whom do we pray? Jesus said to worship the Father (John 4:21-24), yet Stephen prayed to Jesus (Acts 7:59-60).
14. Can there be more than three persons in the Godhead? Certainly the Old Testament does not teach three but emphasizes oneness. If the New Testament adds to the Old Testament message and teaches three persons, then what is to prevent subsequent revelations of additional persons? If we apply trinitarian logic to interpret some verses of Scripture, we could teach a fourth person (Isaiah 48:16; Colossians 1:3; 2:2; I Thessalonians 3:11; James 1:27). Likewise, we could interpret some verses of Scripture to mean six more persons (Revelation 3:1; 5:6).
15. Are there three Spirits in a Christian's heart? Father, Jesus, and the Spirit all dwell within a Christian (John 14:17, 23; Romans 8:9; Ephesians 3:14-17). Yet there is one Spirit (I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).
16. There is only one throne in heaven (Revelation 4:2). Who sits upon it? We know Jesus does (Revelation 1:8,18, 4:8). Where do the Father and the Holy Spirit sit?
17. If Jesus is on the throne, how can He sit on the right hand of God? (Mark 16:19). Does He sit or stand on the right hand of God? (Acts 7:55). Or is He in the Father's bosom? (John 1:18).
18. Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus? Colossians 2:9 says the latter.
19. Given Matthew 28:19, why did the apostles consistently baptize both Jews and Gentiles using the name of Jesus, even to the extent of rebaptism? (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5; 22:16; I Corinthians 1:13).
20. Who raised Jesus from the dead? Did the Father (Ephesians 1:20), or Jesus (John 2:19-21), or the Spirit? (Romans 8:11).
21. If Son and Holy Ghost are co-equal persons in the Godhead, why is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost unforgivable but blasphemy of the Son is not? (Luke 12:10).
22. If the Holy Ghost is a co-equal member of the trinity, why does the Bible always speak of Him being sent from the Father or from Jesus? (John 14:26; 15:26).
23. Does the Father know something that the Holy Spirit does not know? If so, how can they be co-equal? Only the Father knows the day and hour of the Second Coming of Christ (Mark 13:32).
24. Did the trinity make the Old and New covenants? We know the LORD (Jehovah) did (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:7-13). If Jehovah is a trinity then Father, Son, and Spirit all had to die to make the new covenant effective (Hebrews 9:16-17).
25. If the Spirit proceeds from the Father, is the Spirit also a son of the Father? If not, why not?
26. If the Spirit proceeds from the Son, is the Spirit the grandson of the Father? If not, why not?
Those are all just some wacky ideas smashed into the text and you trying to use your own simple logic and your own low understand to describe something incomprehensible. This could have been a very reveling debate.
Please restart this on front page if you want to go toe to toe!
BTW none of what you said can be backed up with scriptures you are just arguing from man's logic and that will fail every time.
The fact that a trinitarian believes the Godhead is a mystery that can't be understood tickles me every single time!!
Rom1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Now, are you sure that the Godhead can't be understood?
Feel free to repost this thread on the front page. We should limit the debate to 3 questions/answers from each person per post.
