Thread: The Early Christians, Vs us Modern Christians......
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The Early Christians, Vs us Modern Christians......
Posted : 27 Aug, 2010 10:56 AM
When I am reading the Early Christians, and the early church fathers, I get the sense that doctrinal precision is not something they were all that concerned about. What they were very concerned about was HOW to LIVE as a Christian. If you could take the Early Christians and let them have an internet discussion group they would NOT be critiquing the finer points of the Doctrine of the Trinity, or debating the End Times. What they would be discussing and debating is HOW a Christian should live in every circumstance in life. And since they had massive and terrible persecution the likes of which American Christians have no experience with, their would be discussions that we would never even think of.
I think they had a different set of circumstances to deal with than we modern Christians do.
They had heresy in their midst, and that was the whole reason they were forced to come up with Creeds. But they did not experience heresy like we Christians of today have around us.
They basically had one heresy at a time come at them.
If you are a Christian now, you literally have EVERY heresy thrown at you, and all around you. And you can bet one or two of the forgotten heresies, are being repacked and modernized to sell to us right now!
So, that all being the case, I think that we modern Christians have more of a need for doctrinal precision, and apologetics, than say a Christian who live in 150AD.
It doesn't mean we sit around and do nothing but "rightly divide the word", but it does mean we need to study regularly, and make that a part of our lives.
If you hate to read, or have trouble reading, there are excellent videos out that will teach you plenty, but you have to know where to look for them. I would suggest getting the Earliest known Christian handbook, the Didache. It is short and easy to read and designed for new Gentile Christians about 200AD.
And living as a Christian is STILL our biggest challenge, and what our moment to moment lives are to be about.
I enjoy reading about the Early Christians and the Early church fathers. I think if the average American Christian could adopt some of the attitudes of the Early Christians, we would see real Spiritual growth.
One of the modern attitudes it would correct is the "Me and my Bible types". The ones who refuse to be a member of the local church, and pretend that their private spiritual intuition is infallible, and they have no need of "traditions of men" which is a derogatory phrase to say that "I am wiser than all other Christians who lived before me."
As for me being Reformed, I can only show that what I believe about the Bible is in Scripture, and that plenty of Early Christians said the same thing, and that what I believe can be shown to be believed by Christians throughout the last two thousand years.
The more I read about what the Early Christians said, I am convinced that it is not so much their lack of doctrinal precision we should be focusing on, or what they believed exactly, but their ATTITUDE towards the world, towards each other, and the elders of the Church.
The Early Christians, Vs us Modern Christians......
Posted : 27 Aug, 2010 12:30 PM
How's about we don't even worry about so called "church fathers" at all. The bible is the final and only authority!!
Am I supposed to trust a "church father" named tertullian who paved the way for people to think that the Godhead is made up of three co-equal, co-existent, and co-eternal persons?
How does a co-equal trinity of persons make any sense when Colossians 2:9 says that ALL the FULNESS of the Godhead dwells in Jesus? Those two other persons must be pretty jealous.
Or how about in Isiah 9:6 when we are given a prophecy about the messianic king (the son/Jesus).. How can the Son be called the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the prince of peace if the Father and Son are supposed to be DISTINCT persons.
There is only one God deuteronomy 6:4, James 2:1o, on and on and on. His name is Jesus. Jesus is the father! John 14.
The Early Christians, Vs us Modern Christians......
Posted : 27 Aug, 2010 12:58 PM
Haha! Amen! I do agree with SirJames though. Living like a christian should be our priority. I've just never seen the need for any "church fathers" besides the ones in the bible.
The Early Christians, Vs us Modern Christians......
Posted : 27 Aug, 2010 03:13 PM
Mr. Manners:
How's about we don't even worry about so called "church fathers" at all. The bible is the final and only authority!!
James replies:
The Bible you are talking about say that all Christians are the body of Christ, and that we NEED each other. Your attitude is typical modern American and the VAST MAJORITY of Christians for the last two thousand years, would call your statements "arrogant".
Mr. Manners:
Am I supposed to trust a "church father" named tertullian who paved the way for people to think that the Godhead is made up of three co-equal, co-existent, and co-eternal persons?
James replies:
That is a very misleading statement. You ACT like Tertullian was alone in saying that God is Triune in nature!!! THE FACT IS, again the VAST MAJORITY of Christians for the last TWO THOUSAND years, AGREE that God is Triune, and hence AGREE with Tertullian!
What Church do you attend, Mr. Manners?
Mr. Manners continues:
How does a co-equal trinity of persons make any sense when Colossians 2:9 says that ALL the FULNESS of the Godhead dwells in Jesus? Those two other persons must be pretty jealous.
James replies:
If you wish to debate the Doctrine of the Trinity, we can do that.
This thread is about the Attitude of the Early Christians, contrasted by the attitudes of Modern American Christians.
I am trying to point out the difference in Attitudes, and you are making my point, so thanks for that.
Mr.Manners continues:
Or how about in Isiah 9:6 when we are given a prophecy about the messianic king (the son/Jesus).. How can the Son be called the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the prince of peace if the Father and Son are supposed to be DISTINCT persons.
James replies:
The Nature of God is one of the deepest subjects in Scripture.
I am more than willing to debate you on this, but you need to start a different topic for that.
There is only one God deuteronomy 6:4, James 2:1o, on and on and on. His name is Jesus. Jesus is the father! John 14.
Let's get back to the bible!!
James replies:
When you say "Let's get back to the Bible", what you really mean is "I have the Holy Spirit and I am wiser than any and all Christians who lived before me, and so I will ignore all the great minds that God has given to me, and instead rely on my private religious hunches, because I have a big ego, and I don't have to spend time studying."
Paul said that we should respect and listen to and follow our elders, and he also said that ALL Christians make up the body of Christ and that we NEED each other. He even said, "does the hand say to the foot, I have no need of you?"
You are rebelling against what Paul taught.
Not only that, but also in Proverbs it says THREE times, that
"There is wisdom in many counselors".
Well, you have two thousand years of CHRISTIAN counselors, who have the Holy Spirit, and truthfully a LOT of them spent more time studying than YOU have.
You get an important diagnosis from a doctor?
You get a second opinion, and you want a specialist, so you ask around to find a good one.
You open the Bible, and read something, and you IGNORE what ALL other Christians have said about that portion of Scripture!
There is wisdom in many counselors, and you need to change your attitude, Mr. Manners.
The Early Christians, Vs us Modern Christians......
Posted : 27 Aug, 2010 05:23 PM
But which ones do you trust? It seems like if the reformers had the attitude you do about their early church fathers we would all still be catholic. Anyway...the bible is all we need in my opinion. There are enough "counselors" and "elders" in there to listen too....and they are the only safe ones.
:peace::peace:
P.S. There is a trinity though...when Jesus was baptized, the Father sent the Holy Spirit to Him...that's 3. When Jesus went back to heaven He told His disciples that He was returning to the Father, but that He would send a Comforter. That's 3 again.
The Early Christians, Vs us Modern Christians......
Posted : 27 Aug, 2010 05:47 PM
James is spot on, to ignore our Christian fore fathers who were taught by the Holy Spirit is unwise and very arrogant. If you ignore history you are doomed to repeat it! The heresies today are just rehashed and repackaged heresies from the past, there is nothin new under the sun.
The Early Christians, Vs us Modern Christians......
Posted : 28 Aug, 2010 11:51 AM
In the book of acts it says the Holy Spirit came and is staying with us until the return of Christ.Jesus prayed to the Father.
I have just wrote all 3 members og the God head.All things are possible with God.The basis ofour faith is teaching about a triune God.It is in our christian music songs.The word supports it.The creeds, the baptizem promise does.It says in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
