Thread: How do people feel about cult members on CDFF and in chat rooms?
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How do people feel about cult members on CDFF and in chat rooms?
Posted : 27 Jul, 2010 10:24 PM
I assume this is a Christian site and hope to feel safe by not having to debate the doctrine of a member of a cult.
I was recently runout of a chat room for debating a 7th Day Adventist which is a recognized cult. So now this person will be allowed to pretend to be a regular Christian and have the opportunity to convert Christians to this persons cult.
Since most people do not recognize what denominations are cults, they are ignorant to identify the false teaching applied by these cult members.
I wish to offer some Bible Scripture and some 7th Day Adventist doctrine and beliefs and may this site judge whether or not I was wrongly persecuted by "Christians" in a chat room.
Jude 1:3-4 (NASB)
3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 3:15-17 (NASB)
15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;
16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.
17 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.
SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISM
If these folks' only peculiarity was that they met on Saturday to worship, we would have very little to worry about. But, they teach that Sunday worship is the Mark of the Beast, and Sunday worshippers, they teach, are Satan worshippers. They may deny this, but as long as they keep quoting Ellen G White, they must have this vulgar heresy stuffed right back down their throats until they repent. Ms White was a heretic, and she added to the Scriptures.
Ellen White founded the Seventh-day Adventist church and members must vow to believe that she was a prophet! From the 27 Fundamental beliefs, #17 "The gift of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White.
As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction."
The most potent blasphemy of Ellen G. White:
On page 481 of 'Great Controversy' (1927 ed.) Mrs. White says, "When Christ by virtue of His own blood removes the sins of His people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of His ministration, He will place them upon Satan, who in execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty."
What does the Bible say?
1 Peter 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
If a SDA follower believes Ellen G. White in the above statement, they are damned to hell. There is no hope for them.
There is no repentance and believing as an event of conversion in White's gospel:
"Do you desire to become a follower of Christ, yet know not how to begin? Are you in darkness and know not how to find the light? Follow the light you have. Set your heart to obey what you do know of the word of God. His power, His very life, dwells in His word. As you receive the word in faith, it will give you power to obey. As you give heed to the light you have, greater light will come. You are building on God's word, and your character will be builded after the similitude of the character of Christ."
This is a Gnostic gospel, a works or process gospel.
Definition of a religious cult and fulfilled by Ellen G. White and the SDA Church.
1. A leader or group of leaders, prophet, prophetess, that claims to speak for God.
Fulfillment: Ellen G. White, the Seventh-day Adventist�s prophetess makes the following claims:
We could stop here with the first quote of EGW as she claims to replace Jesus Christ and is now speaking for God. This in itself shows that Adventism is a cult when comparing it with Hebrews 1:1-2.
EGW: "In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the testimonies of His Spirit. There was never a time when God instructed His people more earnestly than He instructs them now concerning His will and the course that He would have them pursue."-- Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 661.
Bible: Heb 1:1 - 2 (NIV) 1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
The term "the testimonies of His Spirit", by Ellen G. White is referring to her own prophetic ministry as recorded in her books and letters, and is understood as such by the SDA denomination. God never told his church that Jesus would be replaced by Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith or Ellen Gould White or any other prophet or prophetess.
Further EGW claims that God is instructing "his people more earnestly" now than did the prophets, apostles and even Jesus Christ through her testimonies. Heresy!!! Of course in EGW's mind "his people" are the SDA sabbath keeping people that believe that she has the "spirit of prophecy".
EGW: "In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne." --Testimonies 5 p. 67.
Do you believe that it is Jesus speaking to his church (SDA denomination) or do you accept the heresy of EGW and her testimonies?
2. What they write and teach their followers, contradicts Bible.
Fulfillment: Read, "Ellen G. White Contradicts the Bible Over 50 time" EGW holds strict authority over its members in respect to, finances, wills, diet, dress, amusement, associations, etc. as taught in her books such as Testimonies to the Church.
3. Many members taking issue with the authority of the leader are excommunicated, (disfellowshipped), shunned, or not allowed to hold office in the church, etc.
Fulfillment: EGW: "When the judgment of the General Conference, which is the highest authority that God has on earth, is exercised private independence and private judgment MUST NOT be maintained, but must be surrendered." Testimonies 3 p. 492.
Look at the SDA pastors that were fired for not believing in some of Ellen G. White�s teachings. Also members who have been put out of office and disfellowshipped for not accepting Ellen G. White as a prophet or her teachings.
4. Cult leaders teach infallibility in their teachings or the writings of their cult leader, in this case Ellen G. White.
Fulfillment: "It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White�s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is the Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." G.A. Irwin, General Conference President, from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1.
On February 7, 1887, the General Conference passed the following resolution -- "That we re-affirm our binding confidence in the Testimonies of Sister White to the Church, as the teaching of the Spirit of God." SDA Year Book for 1914, p. 253
"Our position on the Testimonies is like the key-stone to the arch. Take that out and there is no logical stopping-place till all the special truths of the Message are gone...Nothing is surer than this, that the Message and visions (of Mrs. White) belong together, and stand or fall together." Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883.
5. The cult members believes that they are superior to others because of their unique teachings as they have knowledge of God�s will that other Christians do not have. Because of the false teachings of their prophet or leaders, they consider themselves especially chosen by God, and look at themselves as the "Remnant Church," or "The True Church".
Fulfilled: Ellen G. White and the Seventh-day Adventist Church view themselves as "the Remnant Church" alone especially called by God in 1844, over all other churches, which they called Babylon. The Adventist still considers themselves the Remnant Church. Read, "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," Chapter 12, The Remnant and Its Mission, p.153.
Seventh-day Adventist Believe: "One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy, This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White." "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," p.216.
Without Ellen G. White and her Bible Contradictions, the Seventh-day Adventist Church could not call itself the Remnant Church. In fact the Word of God never calls any denomination a remnant church.
6. Adventist leaders and their members use the writings of Ellen G. White to interpret the Scriptures. EGW's writings are the final arbitrator of doctrines.
Fulfilled: The Adventist�s claim to hold the Bible above all teachings, but in fact they interpret the Bible by the writings of Ellen G. White. This is demonstrated in their Sabbath school Quarterlies, sermons, and articles in their church paper, "Adventist Review." Her counsel is to be followed as Scripture.
7. They publish their own Bible and insert their own doctrines in the text.
Fulfilled: The Seventh-day Adventist Church publishes The Clear Word Bible. It is a cultic Bible that does not separate the Bible text from the author�s personal commentary, opinions, which slants the text to agree with the writings of Ellen G. White and whatever else to make the text say what he wants it to say. This corrupt piece of work, makes the Word of God unclear to the reader.
Adventist scholar Dr. Sakae Kubo say�s, "I am concerned about how our membership regard and use Blanco�s Clear Word. Behind my remarks is a history of Bibles of this sort that have a terrible bias. The Jehovah�s Witnesses� New World Translation is an obvious example�the divinity of Christ is removed and His createdness is brought out along with other tendential characteristics. The very obvious and serious danger is that our own people will be confused as to what the Bible really says. Interpretation has been so mixed in with the text that our people will think that the interpretation is part of the Word of God." Adventist Review, April 1995, p.15.
How do people feel about cult members on CDFF and in chat rooms?
Posted : 28 Jul, 2010 10:06 AM
HI Scott, welcome to the Biblical discussion...
My question to you is, who ran you out of the chat discussion?
If you were discussing the truth of God's gospel, and trying to put scripture in its propper place, I would see no reason for anyone to give chase to you debating the turth of what God has to say in scriputre.
You posted facts about the founder of the 7th Day Advents, and if you then, pointed out scriptures denouncing their religious beliefs, what was the problem? Who gave chase to you, or did you just give up and ran yourself? If their beliefs don't line up with scripture, what was the real problem here?
Sometimes its not what we say, but how we say what we say in correcting others. We are taught in scripture to rebuke, correct, instruct, and repoof others who are out of the loop according to scripture, and are teaching a false doctrine that is not of Christ. But Paul also tells us to do these things in all humility, in order to WIN those who are teaching false doctrines. And if they don't listen, Paul teaches us to leave them along and not argue with them, and "avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and striving about the law for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a heretic after the first and second admontition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning being self-condemned. (Titus chapter 3).
Remember, our commission is not to man-handle anyone to receive or believe the gospel truth of God's word in out witnessing, we are told to GO tell it, which means plant the seed, and then God will send someone else to water what you have planted, and leave the rest to the Holy Spirit to do His job, and that is to convict the hearts of those who are without the truth of God's gospel, and only God will get the increase.
How do people feel about cult members on CDFF and in chat rooms?
Posted : 28 Jul, 2010 10:43 AM
Well,
I talk with a guy named Mark on this group who is 7thDay Adventist.
There is a debate among Christians as to whether they are in the faith or not. 7th day Adventists, really lousy theology, or outside the faith altogether? That SHOULD be bad enough for those in that group to check Scripture, look at church history, and then LEAVE that group for a local church that lines up with the Bible, as opposed to the strange Ellen white junk.
I like talking with Mark and I hope he leaves that group for a church that has much better theology.
That being said, I would bet it would not be an easy thing for him to do it, because I bet he has plenty of friends and relatives that are members of that group.
So, to me, I don't mind talking to them, but I will always make a point of saying what I think if they belong to some group that has bad theology, or is even an apostate body.
But just remember, if you roll up on me and say you are A Christian, and your are Roman Catholic, or Oneness Pentecostal, etc, you are going to hear from me about it, and rightfully so!!!
How do people feel about cult members on CDFF and in chat rooms?
Posted : 29 Jul, 2010 06:39 AM
Ella, thanks for your wise counsel and encouragement. I know I did not explain myself fully. I was driven out because people in the chat rooms are ignorant of the truths of the Bible. So they see someone attacking "a friend", not defending the Word and jump in and defend her, even though her church is so evil.
I can get a little anxious and people do not that there are 2 sides to the issue and they just run to defend this woman, and she enjoys their protection. I am not afraid to do battle with satan. He lost power over me on the cross and in the desert.
Chat rooms are filled with deceived bacteria of people with very little real knowledge of the Word. They memorize a few verses and call themselves Christians. Many will hear some fateful words from God at the end of it all. " Go away, I never knew you."
I continue to visit the rooms though because of the victories and helps of hurting people that wonder through. I was blessed with a gal last night from the Philippines who is heartbroken because her husband left her for another woman. She is now alone to raise the 2 kids and in the Philippines it is nearly impossible to secure a divorce so she appears to be sentenced to a life without a good man in her life and the sorrow of her self-esteem being destroyed.
I was blessed by God to be able to talk her down to the healing touch of God and she appears much better. I hope to here from her soon to see how things are going for her.
But here is the cool part. The same people that attacked me for defending God's Word the night before were somehow bound from speaking and I was able to minister to her in relative peace and no distractions. It appeared they just could not speak. Imagination or God, take your pick.
How do people feel about cult members on CDFF and in chat rooms?
Posted : 29 Jul, 2010 09:08 AM
Hi Scott,
Thank you, and I love you. I would that you should know that when the crowd comes up against you, and you had to flee, that's not a bad things to do. It only means that you were touching the nerve ends of those listening, and their unclean spirits of unbelief were unable to stand in the presence of God's truth. So the forces join together to give you chase. That's a good thing!:applause:
Because you know what, running away isn't always a bad thing to do when you're out numbered. Oh yeah, it messes with our inner pride and egos, but sometimes its best in many cases to let egos go, and u-goes (you flee).:ROFL:
Remember, when the crowd came up against Jesus to kill Him, sure, He could have stayed the course, and defended Himself, but we are told that He slipped out and escaped from from amongst the crowd, and they had no idea where He went.
You also read about the many times Peter and the apostles ran from the crowd , as well as Paul escaping from the crowd. So sometimes its best to go away when you're not getting through to people, and wait for God to decide that the time is right to return. Because He will always send you right back to where you started, and the crowd will have cooled down, and you will be able to speak, and of course, there will be some who will listen with clearer minds the next time around.
Also know, that whatever seeds of the word you planted the first time around, some fell on good ground, some fell on the rocks, and some the birds of the air ate up, and some the devil refused to allow to be planted, stubborn and hardheaded, stiffnecked gorund. But they will not have an excuse that they didn't know or had not heard the truth when they stand before God. God will know that they had received, but they rejected...
Many times, its not for us to plant and water the seeds we plant, and see the harvest(crop), from those we witness to. Some times God only intends for us to plant the seed and move on. Just as you have done, and yet He brought someone else (barren field) for you to witiness to, and the crowd kept silent! God still has the last word, doesn't He? lol
Yes, He God is an AWESOME GOD! and I love Him to death!
So you, hang in there and keep looking to Jesus who is the author and finisher of your faith, and IS your point of reference for witnessing to others. These things you're experiencing are only your spiritual testing ground from God to build you up and strengthen you in those places where you are weak.can't finsih school without a test, so this is your spiritual schooling:glow:
Just a friendly reminder, please don't get caught up and allow your emotions to be carried away to closely, as in you witnessing to this young lady. Sometimes we tend to get emotionally involved with others personal problems and hardships, and find oursleves in a trap... stay neutral in the personal matters, yet involved enough to hold your position rooted and grounded as a witness about Jesus Christ. Nothing more and nothing less... if you get my drift.
You're okay, and doing a fine job as a man of God. May the blessings and empowerment of the Holy Spirit of our Lord always be with you, as you continue to testify about His amazing grace and love to the brokenhearted and hurting.
Just keep in mind, that those without the truth of Jesus Christ stamped in their hearts and minds are hurting people searching for relief, but don't know where to find it. Some chose the wrong leaders and the wrong message to bring them temporary comfort, and they still can't find the peace or love they seek.
Therefore, we who are strong in our faith and the gospel about Jesus Christ must continue to fight on through the storms of circumstances and resistances, and trust God to do the rest, as long as we are doing our parts. And that is to tell the people about Jesus Christ, not our church doctrine, but tell the people about the doctrine of Jesus Christ. That's all God requires of us...
HANG IN THERE BROTHA-MAN :peace::hearts::yay::dancingp:
How do people feel about cult members on CDFF and in chat rooms?
Posted : 30 Jul, 2010 11:59 AM
Ella, No I don't just run at a sign of contention. It was because several start lashing out, calling names and you can actually feel the evil tension build.
I get to a point where I realize any possibility to do good has passed and time to go off by myself much like Jesus did. I also need time to recharge my batteries and meditate about what happened, what I learned from it and what I could do better next time.
I am still very much present in the rooms and still respond to false teaching with His truth. Psalm 119:160: "The sum of your Word is Truth and all of Your righteous ordinances are everlasting."
You should spend 30 minutes or so in the Over 40 chat room one night and see if you can sense the feeling of counterfeit Christianity. I realize that most of us are damaged goods, in an earthy way, but we do not have to stay that way. I try to wake up every morning with a clean slate. It's wonderful to know that I can stand before God with my head held high and say, thank you Lord, this may be the day I do not sin against you. Lord willing.
How do people feel about cult members on CDFF and in chat rooms?
Posted : 30 Jul, 2010 09:40 PM
"Here he comes to wreck the day!!"
I'm sorry, Scotty. I didn't even read half your first post. Half was true, and the other half was twisted beyond recognition. Unfortunately, those halves joined together in their respective sentences far too often. Since you are a non-Adventist and you do not know what we believe or how we believe it, I'll let it pass. For the record, I am an Adventist, and I do know what I believe more than you. I'm not entirely stupid, and I do like to think for myself as people who know me would know. I have searched through my beliefs many many times, and also through the beliefs of other churches...and I still am. The beliefs of other churches scare me, quite frankly, and I will not be convinced by anything except the bible. I've been on here awhile and no one has been able to do that. You can attribute that to whatever you want, blindness or whatever, but you're using the same talking points everyone else has, and I'm getting kind of bored with it. My faith is only getting stronger through the fiery tests. Anyway. To the post topic. What are the requirements to be saved and be called by Christ's name? Sinlessness? Nope, not as long as we believe in Christ's sacrifice. Having all knowledge and walking in all truth? Nope, we grow in Christ throughout our lives. If you think you have all truth you're in the most dangerous place a christian can be in...and if you think you get to judge a persons motives/heart/faith, or where they are in God's plan for them, then you are in the second most dangerous position. So what are the requirements that we must have to be saved?? Anyone? Buhler? Hmm...I'm pretty sure that it's just "believe and you shall be saved". "Believe in what?", you ask? Jesus's sacrifice that covers our unrighteousness. So are Seventh-day Adventists Christians? I like to think so. I'm sure that the pharisees called Jesus and Paul "heretics" and "cultists". I'm sure that the Catholics called Luther and Huss and Calvin and all the other reformers "heretics" and "cultists". If I were you, I would be careful about throwing that around. Maybe the "protestants" and "reformers" are now in the position to accept more leading from God. Maybe they're choosing to reject God's leading and blind themselves to the truth merely because it's not "old" enough for them, and maybe they're throwing "cult!" around at everything that doesn't fit their own personal view...because, of course! It's always someone else that is wrong, right? Anyway, instead of looking at other people's beliefs and deeming them unworthy for salvation, I would suggest that you turn your eyes to yourself. If you're right and you live a glowingly Christ-like life by lifting Him up, then you will draw many to the truth. If not, then you're may be in danger of becoming a sounding brass that screams for change in others and drives them away because they see the hypocrisy hiding in the deluge of accusations. That goes for every christian by the way, including "Adventists".
How do people feel about cult members on CDFF and in chat rooms?
Posted : 31 Jul, 2010 10:21 AM
To SirJames:
Most of the so-called church in America does not line up with the Biblical mandates.
Plurality of Elders most do not adhere to.
Priesthood of Believers most have never heard of this teaching.
Worship according to 1st Corinthians 11-14,almost never practised.
Breaking bread,as often as we meet,without the so-called Senior Pastor taking Yeshuas place.
There is so much more,yet I do not judge them,just what they are and are not doing.
I find the False Witnesses (JW),Mormons,doing more Evangelizing with false teachings,then the christians with the truth.
Yesua says:
John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Are we loving one another,or are we only concerned about having right doctrines.
Love covers a multitudes of sins,even that of wrong doctrines.
If the Seventh day Adventists have wrong doctrine:
then you who are Spiritual restore such a one .
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Are the people trusting Yesua and Yeshua alone for Blood atonement,Salvation,and eternal life:
Then maybe we should be getting the telephone pole out of our eyes,before trying to remove the grain of dust from the eyes of others.
I say this to myself first before anyone else.
I am not Yeshua,I cannot lay down my life that others would have theirs sins removed.
I cannot give anyone eternal life.
I am not the Holy Spirit,who convicts a person of sin against the Lord.
I cannot seal anyone unto eternal life.
I am not the Father,I cannot draw or lead anyone to Yeshua,only He can do this.
I personally do not love anyone as the Father does:
That I would give my son to die in this place of my enemies,
that my enemies would be forgiven and have eternal life.
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
I hope everyone has a Blessed time with the Saints of the Lord this weekend.
How do people feel about cult members on CDFF and in chat rooms?
Posted : 3 Aug, 2010 08:16 PM
Regardless of our opinions, we should not ever assume that we can reach someone by putting their beliefs down. I spent some time with an Adventist family in Nebraska once. I have to say that after being in their home for several weeks I came home with many more questions than I had answers. I spent another two years watching their TV network and learning about their Theology while comparing it with my own beliefs. I agree that it is not a Scriptural belief that people who worship on Sunday are the Beast. I think Adventists believe that Sunday worship is the Mark of the Beast. Regardless, the fact is that they claim the blood of Jesus for their salvation. If we want to call them cultic then we should probably look at other denominations we considered not cultic to see how whacked out we think their theology is. Oh wait, they're all whacked out!!
Look our commission is to make disciples, people who follow the disciplines, teachings, of Jesus. We are not supposed to be proselytizing by convincing people they are wrong and we are right! Then we are nothing more than Pharisees or worse because we make our Father look bad when we do it. People judge Him, our religion and us all by how we go about spreading the "Good" news. "Hey good news I think your in a cult! But fortunately for you I am right about what I believe and I am going to convince you of it so you will be saved! Ta Da!! Praise Jesus!!
