The only early church I think we need to look at is the one in the bible. That's the only safe one. I would rather stand before God with what I believe from His word, than with what someone else believed.
2 Tim. 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Well, I have considered it....but I think we should consider the collective witness of the bible more. There are many advisers in there and they all agree, unlike the "early church fathers". I think it's altogether too obvious that the "early fathers" didn't hold onto the whole truth for very long. The early church was corrupted by idolatry, spiritualism, a wrong view of God's character, and works-based salvation for a very long time. Calvin, Luther, Huss, etc. all were given reforming truth for their time, but if you think they had it all then, or if you think we have it all now...anyway....just keep listening. The key to the gospel is God's character as shown through Jesus. That's what this is all about, and I think that is the reforming truth for our time.
I think you both make some good points. For instance, the Apostles didn't really move away from Jewish tradition until 70 a.d. when the temple was destroyed and they moved to Antioch. Slowly they stopped the animal sacrifices and keeping of Jewish festivals and thy finally started following Paul's example and going on mission trips.
My point is, these were men, just as we are. They made mistakes and were human. God won in the end, but it took the fall of the temple for it to happen.
When we look at the History of the 'Church' we find as time progressed, the believers moved away from the simplicity of the Gospe,l and away from the Body being the means of biblical Worship,breaking bread,exhortation, and many other ways,which the body is to function.
Most of the body of believers have never heard of or have ever seen in place Biblical Eldership,or the Priesthood of Believers.
The body of Christ has been hijacked by men calling themselves Senior Pastor,Pastor,Dr.so and so,Bishop,etc.
The body no longer is an organism,it is more an Organization.
We have replaced the priesthood of believers in 1st Cor.14:26 with a band to worship Yeshua.
1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
The body no longer breaks bread often,rather a man has said to do this once a month.
The body no longer prays when we meet together,for a man has taken that upon himself to pray for everyone.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
If we want to be looking at 'Church' history,then let us look into the book of the 'Acts' of the Holy Spirit through the Apostles.
Then let us confess our sin of letting men elling us what we should be doing as a body and trust the Lord to reveal to us how we should be meeting.
Don't get me wrong,i believe there is an order and authority within the body of Yeshua,but not what we see today.
Ephesians 4:11-15
Why are not the Evangelist,Prophets and Teachers being used within the Body to the Edifying and maturing of the Saints.
This too has been hijacked by the Senior Pastors/Pastors
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Instead of getting back to Church history let us get back to the Word of GOD.
Remember even the reformers did not practise Biblical Eldership,or the Priesthood of believers.
SirJames, you stated: Don't you think it is wiser to consider the collective wisdom of two thousand years, than to just ignore it?
The only collective wisdom that has come along in the last two thousand years is more man's philosophies, more sectarian confusion and division with false doctrines. Because a spiritual Christian drinks from one Spirit and is taught by one spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Since we drink from one spirit, who teaches us the deeper things of God from God's word why would any spiritual Christians want to learn the errors of human reasoning of the past two thousand years other than to avoid such false teachings?
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Thankfully God;s word is just as up to date today as it was when it was written because human nature and a relationship with God has not changed and neither has the importance of God's word changed.
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints..
Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
