Thread: New Covenant Priesthood of Believers vs The Organized Church
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New Covenant Priesthood of Believers vs The Organized Church
Posted : 9 Jul, 2010 10:18 AM
Hello everyone:
John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free,ye are free indeed.
I have been bothered for a number of years with the term 'The Church'.
I have heard people say "I am going to Church" or will you go to church with me; as though the Church were either
a place of interest, or a local event that happens on Sunday mornings and Wednesday nights.
I was asked one Sunday by someone that I know,was 'I going to church';My answer knid of shocked him.
I responded that,I could not be going to somewhere,that I happen to be.
I told this person,that I am the Church.
The Church is not a building,but the individual people who the Lord Yeshua has saved, and called out from amongst the
world,to be His New Covenant people.
As i continued on my way,I went to fellowship,knowing that instead of being an active particpant,that I would instead be
a 'FAN'.
Just like the people that go to the ballpark, people pay to get into the stadium,they buy souvenirs,food,use the facilities,yet never once do they actively participate with the team they love to support.
Most of the Organized Church in America is the same as the people at the ballpark.
They show up,pay theirs dues(Tithe)have coffe,maybe some food,cheer(So called worship),use the facilities and
talk with a few people,then maybe go have lunch,or just go back home.
Actually,there are more people that could tell you the stats of their favorite teams,tv shows,(Doperah or Dr.Pill)
than they could tell you about Yeshua and His Word.
At the 'church' a man calling himself the senior pastor will get things going,saying lets pray,yet he is the only one
having the chance to pray.
I thought Yeshuas house,was to be 'A house of Prayer for all the Nations/people not just one,or is the High Priest
position still active these days.
This man says lets worship,yet the people are just singing songs which a band leader,or chior leader,
or the senior pastor picks out for the people to recite.
The people are then asked to Tithe or give an offering (I see this as club dues to keep the organization rolling).
Sometimes they have crackers and juice called communion;Again the senior pastor talks about the event,prays,asks people to hand out the elements and the people have a snack.
The senior pastor then lectures for about an hour,then the band has the people sing a song:
The senior pastors prays for everyone,then everyone disbands and goes their way until the next week,when they do this all over again..
Is this what Yeshua laid His life down for!
Is this the New Covenant Priesthood of believers in action..
Is this a Biblical Organism,or just some Organization of man...
The Lord says in His Word,what is the purpose of the gathering of the saints,Along with the purpose and function of the Priesthood of beleivers...1st Corinthians 14: 23-33
1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole assembly may come together, to the same place, and all may speak with tongues, and there may come in unlearned or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
1Co 14:24 and if all may prophecy, and any one may come in, an unbeliever or unlearned, he is convicted by all, he is discerned by all,
1Co 14:25 and so the secrets of his heart become manifest, and so having fallen upon his face, he will bow before God, declaring that God really is among you.
1Co 14:26 What then is it, brethren? whenever ye may come together, each of you hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation? let all things be for building up;
1Co 14:27 if an unknown tongue any one do speak, by two, or at the most, by three, and in turn, and let one interpret;
1Co 14:28 and if there may be no interpreter, let him be silent in an assembly, and to himself let him speak, and to God.
1Co 14:29 And prophets--let two or three speak, and let the others discern,
1Co 14:30 and if to another sitting anything may be revealed, let the first be silent;
1Co 14:31 for ye are able, one by one, all to prophesy, that all may learn, and all may be exhorted,
1Co 14:32 and the spiritual gift of prophets to prophets are subject,
1Co 14:33 for God is not a God of tumult, but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints.
1Co 14:36 From you did the word of God come forth? or to you alone did it come?
1Co 14:37 if any one doth think to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge the things that I write to you--that of the Lord they are commands;
1Co 14:38 and if any one is ignorant--let him be ignorant;
1Co 14:39 so that, brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and to speak with tongues do not forbid;
1Co 14:40 let all things be done decently and in order.
I purposelly left off verses 34-35 (Tough words for some to handle).
When we assemble together are we assembling according to the New Covenant Priesthood of Believers;
Or are we assembling according to the Old Covenant; THE LAW.
Under the Old Covenant,one person prayed and offered the peoples sacrifices,this was the high priest:
Today they call themselves Senior Pastors.
Under the Law,the Levites would lead the people into worshiping the Lord:
Today they call this the worship band/team or the choir.
Under the law the people tithed (read Deuteronmy 14:22-29 especially vs 28-29 concerning the three year tithe).
Today the people are still asked to be tithing.
Is the church in America a New Covenant Church under Grace,practicing participatory worship,
Participatory breaking bread,and cheerful giving, all of this according to 1st Corinthians chapters 11-14 .
Or has the church in America never come out from being under the Law.
There are few that do practise these New Covenant principles when they meet.
I had this New Covenant Priesthood of Believers fellowship when I lived in Pennsylvania;
I have lived in New Jersey the past 12 years,when I fellowship with the Saints,my heart sinks,for I know what theyare missing,
yet most have never heard of the Priesthood of Believers,Nor have they seen this in action..
I am putting my concerns for this nation, especially those calling themselves 'The Church' onto this site,pray about this.
I so much want to see the people understanding who Yeshua is,what He is like;
I Also want the people to be knowing who they are in Yeshua,also what the Lord does say about us as His people.
Are we dumb sheep,sinners saved by Grace as these senior pastors and church members say and believe;
Or are we the Saints of the Most High God,The Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
What does the Lord say about these matters.
I hope that everyone has a Blessed and safe weekend
New Covenant Priesthood of Believers vs The Organized Church
Posted : 9 Jul, 2010 10:59 AM
Yeap; A synagogue with a cross on top! The "Real Church" has members in many churches and some in no church at all. Some churches of satan masquerade as a organized churches of Jesus; the spirit of Anti-Christ is among us.
New Covenant Priesthood of Believers vs The Organized Church
Posted : 9 Jul, 2010 01:59 PM
Jesus spoke to the Church as a body of believers not lone wolves. In Revelation, Jesus sends messages to the Churches. The books of the New Testament are filled with guides for the body of believers to meet together.
Take one coal away from the rest that are burning in a hearth and the one will dim and go out.
Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.
Every week the Jehovah's Witnesses get together and go over what happened during the week before. If they run across someone who quoted a Bible verse to them, they go over what was said and train to deal with that in the future. They work as a group to spread their beliefs. Do you join with others to spread the Gospel?
In three weeks time the Church that I am a member of baptized over 200 people.
I searched until I found a Church that believes, reaches out to not only here but overseas as well. How many missionaries are sent by a church of one?
New Covenant Priesthood of Believers vs The Organized Church
Posted : 9 Jul, 2010 03:05 PM
GleodoraMike:
Just because people were dunked under water does not say anything to me.
Anyone can go swimming.
Matthew 28:18-20 is not talking about dunking people underwater.Again another tradition of men,because people will not search the Scripture for themselves.
People are lazy and want to be followers of men,not Yeshua/Jesus.
BAPTIZING is the word;Not Baptized(Once) or even Baptize.
Baptizing,which is an on going continuous process,which really says to be immersing people into or to the names of the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob.
Be a Berean,look this up for yourself.
All of those names are fulfilled in Yeshua.
Matthew 28:18-20 is about discipleship,not dunking people in water.
Example about immersed:
He really immersed himself in his work.
There is only one body of believers,so where does CHURCH MEMBERSHIP appear in Scripture.
It does not,this too is another man made tradition.
We are already memberes one of another.
Might I ask,How did you become part of the family, you were born into.
Did you have to do anything to become a member of that particular family,NO.
The same is with the body of Yeshua.
Yes there is oversight,but not memebership,that sounds like I will be joining a club or an organization.
As far as lone wolves,If the body of Yeshua would listen to those the Lord has raised up to be Teachers,and let them teach:
While those men calling themselves(Proudly)Senior Pastors,Doctor so an so,Fatrher,Bishop,Minister,Or
Reverend,sat down and listened to the Word through others,maybe the people just might here what the lord wants to say to them.
Than maybe, the people would be taught how to read the Word for themselves,and begin depending upon the Holy Spirit as their teacher, instead of trusting men.
Just because someone has a CEMETARY(Seminary)Degree,this does not say they have been called and gifted of Yeshua in teaching the Word to the body.
Cemetary Degrees,You go in alive and come out with dead Orthodoxy...
I believe if Yehsua were amongst us,He would throw those pulpits,stages,light sytems,band instruments,and a whole lot of other things out.
He would begin teaching the Word the way that it is written,not the way the people want to be hearing the Word.
I hope you read the Word for yourself.
I hope that you are following Yeshua,not men nor the traditions of men.
New Covenant Priesthood of Believers vs The Organized Church
Posted : 9 Jul, 2010 04:01 PM
Jesus, Himself, went "swimming" with John the Baptist giving the lesson. During His ministry, the Discples of Jesus were baptizing people. In Acts 8:36-40, the Ethiopian eunuch went swimming after hearing and believing.
New Covenant Priesthood of Believers vs The Organized Church
Posted : 9 Jul, 2010 04:48 PM
GlendoraMike, I don't believe the jehovah witnesses is the church Christ is building for several reasons.
One, Christ began his church in Acts 2 over two thousand years ago.
The jehovah witnesses was developed in the United States in the 1870s by Charless Tazz Russel, not Christ. Under the direction of Russell's successor, Joseph "Judge" Rutherford, the International Bible Students Association introduced significant doctrinal changes.
Ephs 5:4, tells us there is only one faith not other faiths to be added later or does the word even hint of such a possibility.
If Christ who claims its not robbery to be equal with God, He would have to be God, for Him to make that claim and as you know the jahovah witnesses deny the deity of Christ and claim he is God's first creation.
So why would Christ begin a new religion and deny himself?
There are many other inconsistencies in their doctrine and the word.
The other gentlemen was correct that the believer is the church.
1 Peter 2:5 �Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
New Covenant Priesthood of Believers vs The Organized Church
Posted : 9 Jul, 2010 06:30 PM
I find huge problems with the Jehovah's Witnesses. I put it into the cult area.
However, my point was that they use the group to improve their message.
Paul handled this in I Corinthians 12. Look at verse 14: For the body is not one member, but many. The Spirit gives abilities to members of the body to carry out the work of the Lord.
In the body we each are members of the greater whole. But if anyone stays away from the body, they will quench the work of the Spirit in the long run.
Time and again Paul wrote of the Church as a group. If it wasn't for Christians joining together, we wouldn't be on this site or having this chat because Christianity would have stalled.
Remember the Bible wasn't written in chapters with verses. Those came much later.
In my reading I divided the Bible into 10 sections and reading 10 chapters a day doesn't take long. This way a verse in the Old Testament can line up with a verse in the New Testament and verses and ideas elsewhere.
READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF AND LET THE SPIRIT GUIDE YOU.:angel:
New Covenant Priesthood of Believers vs The Organized Church
Posted : 9 Jul, 2010 08:31 PM
Mike;
I understand what you have written,The False Witnesses do a lot of what we should be doing,yet they might not be saved(Not my place to Judge eternal judgements).
I agree about the necessity of Fellowship,yet the Body of Yeshua has been hijacked by a small group of men.
These men are usurping the Authority of Christ,and denying the body its God Ordained authority and place to Worship/Worthship The Pastor,High Priest,and Builder of the Church Yeshua the Messiah.
When the body comes together,does the individual have his say within the meeting, (Psalm,Hymn,Spiritual Songs),Or are these picked out for the body to sing.
How about using the gifts of the Spirit which are important when we meet together;
Tongues,Revelation,Interpretaion,LET ALL THINGS BE DONE UNTO EDIFYING.
If these are not happening when we meet together,how then is the body being built up.HOW?
By one man giving his interpretation of the Word.
Please give me a break.
Unless we meet according to 1st Corinthians chapters 11-14,
Are we then meeting according to the will of the Lord.
These chapters involve:
Breaking bread( Ch.11)
Gifts of the Spirit( Ch.12)
Attitude and motivation( Ch.13)
The life of the body meeting together( Ch.14).
When a person sleeps which part of his/her body stops working,please tell me.
But when the body meets together the only ones doing anything are the pastor and the band.
Everyone else is silenced,This does not show life,rather Spiritual Deadness.
Denying Yeshua His place amongst his people and denying His word.
In other words when we meet together we are Sinning and do we ever confess this as Sin,NO.
Why not,Spiritual Deadness,no conviction.
If the people knew the truth of what is going on,there might be an uproar,or at least these men would not be doing what they have been doing for some time.
Pro 24:30 I went by the field of the slothful, and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding;
Pro 24:31 And, lo, it was all grown over with thorns, and nettles had covered the face thereof, and the stone wall thereof was broken down.
Pro 24:32 Then I saw, and considered it well: I looked upon it, and received instruction.
Pro 24:33 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep:
Pro 24:34 So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth; and thy want as an armed man.
This is the sad condition of a good portion of the body of believers in America today.
I pray the Lord will be raising up men after His own heart.
Men who will teach others to read the Word,they will be witnessing in the streets.
They would be teaching the body,not evangelizing them.
They would teach Biblical Doctrine( 2 Tim.3:16-17)
They would lay down thier lives for those around them.
They will not be in this for gain of any sort,only for the glory of Yeshua,and the equipping of the Saints.
They will Lovingly and boldly proclaim the Gospel, the way that it is written,not how the people want to be hearing the Word.
These men will not be want to be called by any title,just brother or their first names.
When the Lord shows them to sit down and let others teach,pray,speak,worship,they would do so.Actually this should be the life of the body anyway.
We need to as a Body get back to practising:
Biblical Eldership/Plurality of Elders,
The Priesthood of all believers,
Biblical Worshp/Worthship of Yeshua,
And Breaking Bread as an active participatory meeting.
Maybe the quenching of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believers and the body as a whole just might be lifted.
New Covenant Priesthood of Believers vs The Organized Church
Posted : 9 Jul, 2010 08:58 PM
Joining a small group allows individual input.
My friend wants the pastor to talk about end times prophecy and she is upset that he doesn't. However, that subject is covered in depth on the internet. Our church is about evangelizing and equiping people to bring others to the Lord.
I had a problem with "My body broken for you." I e-mailed the pastor and pointed out that it isn't in the New Testament and goes against prophecy and the bones of the Passover lamb were not to be broken. Now we hear "My body given for you."
Many pastors will not make it into Heaven. Search out the "Pauls" and back them up.
New Covenant Priesthood of Believers vs The Organized Church
Posted : 10 Jul, 2010 12:23 PM
trucker, if tongues is for edifying, how do you reconcile it to this next verse, unless it is the unsaved doing the edifying?
1 Corinthians 14:22 �Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
According to the above verse it would seem to me tongues only edifies those that don't believe in God's word and don't understand what tongues were for and that they would cease, or was Paul wrong on that as well?
To further enforce the above verse, lets add this one with it.
1 Corinthians 14:21 �In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Wasn't that referring to Israel not hearing God even with tongues?
1 Corinthians 13:8 �Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
If tongues were for today for edifying, how come after
1 Corinthians 14:39, tongues is never mentioned again?
The tongues in Revelations is not referring to the tongues movement of today for edifying in case someone wants to mention about tongues in that book.
