"Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have."
what shall be given or taken away? is it the seed which was explained earlier in the chapter or is it all encompassing; meaning everything that person has or seems to have?
Within the context of the surrounding passage, I would say that it's contrasting those who will be saved w/ those who will not be. The passage uses the analogy of not hiding a lamp that has been lit. Likewise, those who really know and understand and have assimilated the Truth will not hide it. If someone is hiding it or not exhibiting fruit, that would be a sign that their "lamp" may not have been "lit" in the first place. The subsequent warning is beseeching those listening (reading) to listen to the Word and to Jesus in such a way as to understand spiritual Truth v. what could be seen purely as material. Keep in mind here that many people were looking for a Messiah that would be a leader of an earthly kingdom; they were seeking after a rather shallow, material application of the promise of a Saviour.
Those who continue on to see Jesus as something less than what He is and to chase after worldly things v. the eternal/spiritual, will lose everything. Things like possessions and social status will not be going with us into the afterlife. Those who store up those kinds of treasures and don't seek Christ, will lose everything... meaning that they will spend eternity apart from God and will take nothing good with them. Those who are in Christ have an eternal treasure that will not perish. We will one day be glorified and will have so much more than what this life has to offer us.
2 Corinthians 4 gives us some more in-depth insight into those ideas:
1Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. 2Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. 6For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
7But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. 8We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; 9persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 10We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken."With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.
16Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. 17For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. 18So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
The message is very clear for a essential reason, You will believe what you hear if you hear it enough, since the fall, the law of faith can work for you.
What you continually put before your eyes and in your ears will get into your heart, including false doctrine.
You make an excellent (and Biblical) point, PJ, but I disagree w/ that point as being the interpretation of Luke 8:18. Are you maybe thinking of Luke 11:33-36? That passage uses the analogy of the lamp, as well, but does have a different significance... something a little more along the lines of what you've said... although that doesn't fit exactly either really.
Maybe you could explain how you got from point A to point B?? Like I said, you're point is Biblical, but just doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Like 8 passage.
Would you agree/disagree w/ my interpretation, PJ??
No mam, I am a believer not an interpreter, is it not a principle as the word says, Jesus said if you do not hear this you will not understand the kingdom of God.
This is exactly how some become Calvinist they did take heed to what they heard in disagreement withe word, if you noticed it also says some received the word.
The topic is take heed to what you hear
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Mk 4:21 And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?
22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.
23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.
26 And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;
27 And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how.
28 For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.
29 But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.
30 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it?
31 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:
32 But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.
You will end up believing that, that is even wrong if you continue to hear and hear the distortion, words are seeds.
well... that was deep [@ pixy]. i never thought people see Jesus as a earthly leader here to fix/save the world, how naive am i?:rolleyes:, sheesh. why the heck do they do that? *scratches head*
ureeka! after reading pixy's post i read it again and here's what i got. one part of it kept bothering me "take heed therefore how ye hear" so how a person hears can be broken down into 4 ways;
1. by the wayside
2. on a rock
3. among thorns
4. good ground
whosoever has is the one on good ground, who receives with an 'honest and good heart' so 'having heard the word keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience'. and the have not's are 1 through 3... tsk tsk tsk. i see it now, i guess this is why some people just won't make it huh?
Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Mk 4:1 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
luke 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.
23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.
26 And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;
27 And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how.
28 For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.
29 But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.
30 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it?
31 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:
32 But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.
33 And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.
Jesus this is the mystery of the kingdom, words being sown, take care what you hear, take care what you hear, or you may give up on what truth you have heard.
The kingdom operates on seeds, the word of God being sown into the hearts of men and what man does with the seed will depend on his hearing and doing.
You might apply it to the new birth, but if you notice some received the word in their heart and endured for a while, this is a principle on how the kingdom of God operates, you will eventually hear and receive the wrong seed if you are not careful to take heed to how you hear.
One of the best examples is receiving the holy scripture according to scripture,
Pixy what do you believe concerning receiving the Holy Spirit
@PJ- You've completely misunderstood my point and I'm struggling w/ trying to figure out how to better explain it... Lemme think on it for a bit while I answer your question regarding the Holy Spirit...
I believe that all believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit is received at the point of salvation. I believe that He comforts, guides, and convicts believers. I believe that He is our intercessor. I believer that spiritual gifts are given through the Spirit. I think that pretty much covers it...
Okay, back to the original topic... Again, PJ, I don't disagree with the concept you presented, I just don't think that the Luke 8 passage in question has little, if anything, to do with that particular concept. But, I've already explained why I interpret the passage the way I do, so I won't repeat myself.
As far as the issue of interpretation, PJ. The human mind automatically interprets what you read. So you are an interpretor; we all are. You wouldn't be able to communicate w/out interpretation. The words would have no meaning to you and you'd be unable to process them. The most you'd be able to do is parrot them back to people like a robot.
And I'm not a Calvinist, so don't discount what I say on the basis that you think I am.
And no, the topic isn't about taking heed. Nyanda asked: "what shall be given or taken away? is it the seed which was explained earlier in the chapter or is it all encompassing; meaning everything that person has or seems to have?" Your interpretation of the passage doesn't address her particular question about the passage. A correct interpretation of a passage must not disregard components of the passage. If you have to leave out a sentence or 2 of a passage for your interpretation to make sense, that's a good sign that you're not understanding things correctly.
I understand your point clearly but we are taking about the scriptures and their meaning.
The seed the word of God is sown into the heart, well it at least is suppossed to be, but most christians try to reason and approach God with their mind, and he said that is at enmity with him.
The question on the holy spirit was not off target, I said that because I knew what your answer would be, and how you have been taught, this teaching tells how you have been taught by your response.
Would you believe Scripture or take heed what to how you have been taught concerning the Holy Spirit.
As far as Calvinism, you say you are not Calvinist but you agree with them continually, and The Jesus that saved me always said if you agree with them you are part of them,
Pixy as long anyone does not accept scripture as the truth, and learn to handle the word as truth, they will never grow, nor can you be what God all his children to be.
After reading over this post, I had thought to post my views on this passages, but I decided to allow the scholars to speak. Therefore, I went in search of commentaries, and I viewed several including Henry and Clarke, and a few more, but found they would be too difficult for your understanding, so I came across this commentary that breaks this passage down in simple language for ALL to undersatnd, so that no one will get out of the loop as to what Jesus is speaking about here in Luke chapter 8:verse 18.
Firstly, in order to understand scripture and what is being said the WHOLE CHAPTER MUST BE READ, and one must understand the complete chapter 8, and the parable. I will not post the complete commentary, but if you are interested in learning more, you can find it at www.studylight.org/com under David Guzik Commentaries as well as other great scholars' commentaries.
By David Guzik
(VERSES 11-15) Jesus explains the parable.
"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience."
a. The seed is the word of God: 1 Peter 1:23 says that we have been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.
i. The natural tendency is for the audience to critique the preacher. But here, Jesus the preacher is critiquing His audience. How they will hear is the issue.
b. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved: Some people are like the ground on the pathway. They allow no room for the seed of the word in their lives - it never enters.
i. This is Satan's preferred result. His desire is that the word take no place in a person's life, so they do not run the "risk" of being fruitful to God.
c. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away: Some people are like the ground that is rocky, but covered with a thin layer of topsoil. They receive the seed of the word with a flash of enthusiasm that quickly burns out.
d. Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity: Some people are like the seed that fell among the thorns. They receive the word but allow the interests and cares of this world choke it out.
e. The ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience: Some people are like the good ground, and receive the word with a good and noble heart. They keep the word, and thus bear fruit, thus fulfilling the purpose of the seed.
f. These four categories apply to those who hear the gospel of salvation, but they also apply to those who are already saved who continually hear the word of God. How do you hear it?
Do you let Satan take it right away?
Do you take it but then immediately ignore it?
Do you allow the cares of this world to make your hearing of the word of no effect?
Do you keep the word and see it bear fruit in your life?
B. The responsibility of those who receive the word.
1. (VERSES 16-17) They are responsible to expose and publish the truth - that is, the word of God.
"No one, when he has lit a lamp, covers it with a vessel or puts it under a bed, but sets it on a lampstand, that those who enter may see the light. For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light."
a. No one, when he has lit a lamp, covers it with a vessel or puts it under a bed, but sets it on a lampstand: Truth, by its nature was meant to be revealed; and God promises that it will be.
b. That those who enter may see the light: If you have the truth of God, you have a solemn responsibility to spread that truth in whatever way God gives you opportunity, even as someone who has the cure for a life-threatening disease has the moral responsibility to spread that cure. God didn't light your lamp so that it would be hidden.
i. One must either spread the word itself, or spread the influence of God's word by bringing others to a place where they will hear it; and you really should be doing both.
2. (18) When we hear the word, we become accountable; so we must take care how we hear.
"Therefore take heed how you hear. For whoever has, to him more will be given; and whoever does not have, even what he seems to have will be taken from him."
a. For whoever has, to him more will be given: Jesus reminds us that spiritual growth follows momentum, positive or negative - when we have the godly habits of receiving the word and living it, more is built on to that. When we lose those godly habits, they are extremely difficult to get back.
b. Therefore take heed how you hear: If we want to hear more from God, we must obey what we have already heard.
3. (19-21) We show that we are close to Jesus by hearing and obeying His word.
What did I say about the Holy Spirit that you find to be unbiblical? Please state the specific verses/passages that you feel are contrary to what I said.
