Well,Ive never seen such self rightous attitudes in my life......im begginning to think some of you people are already perfect in christ!Ha,politeness is not christianity,none of you people know me,or are in any great standing to judge me,im not sure most of you could have even survived the life ive lead.Get off your high horse people!next time you secretly sin in front of god,wich will be soon ,think about your judgement of me,Theres so much pride coming from ALL over this board that its pathetic!
Here is something I know you will apreciate, John Mac also has a word on this... remember, you said you had found your happy spot, so why are't you continuing to live within it, and keep it moving. Please read this carefully to the end and get your peace back...:glow:
When Will You Just Get Over It?
from chrisbraums.com
Here are quotes from several others including Jay Adams, Lig Duncan, John MacArthur, Ken Sande, John Piper and blogging legend Justin Taylor (See Justin�s post, �Shall we forgive the unrepentant?�).
Jay Adams
Jay Adams argues without qualification that forgiveness is conditional. Notice Adams� balance in stressing that Christians are obligated to try and bring an offender to repentance.
What shall we say then? It is clear that forgiveness-promising another never to bring up his offense again to use it against him � - is conditioned on the offenders willingness to confess it as sin and to seek forgiveness. You are not obligated to forgive an unrepentant sinner, but you are obligated to try to bring him to repentance. All the while you must entertain a genuine hope and willingness to forgive the other and a desire to be reconciled to him or her. Because this biblical teaching runs counter to much teaching in the modern church, it is important to understand it. Such forgiveness is modeled after God�s forgiveness which is unmistakably conditioned on repentance and faith.[1]
Ligon Duncan
This is a question that many Christians have never thought through. I think that Christians who have themselves harbored unjustified bitternesses and have been unforgiving in places and in ways that they should have been forgiving, often when they are confronted with and gripped by the radical teaching of Christ on forgiveness, out of sorrow for their own sin, read Jesus� teaching on forgiveness in such a way that they understand it to mean that forgiveness is an automatic obligation in every circumstance, irrespective of the repentance of the other party. And, again, I think that that is a mistake. I believe that forgiveness always has in view reconciliation, and reconciliation is always two-sided. So if there is not a repentance corresponding to a forgiveness, then very often there is an impossibility of reconciliation. I think that whatever we think about forgiveness, forgiveness is a component to what is a larger picture, and the larger picture is reconciliation. And reconciliation is necessarily two-sided. Consequently, I think it is important for us to talk about both forgiveness and readiness to forgive. There may be circumstances where a reconciliation is impossible, but a readiness to reconcile can still be present with a believer. Consequently, I would want to make that distinction when I was counseling a believer who was in a circumstance where there was not a present possibility of reconciliation of the relationship. Instead of telling them that they need to forgive or they will become bitter, I think I would rather say that you need to be ready to forgive and not to be captured by your bitterness.[2]
John MacArthur
John MacArthur argues that for small matters there are times when forgiveness is unilaterally and unconditionally granted.[3] But, MacArthur also clearly states:
It is obvious from Scripture that sometimes forgiveness must be conditional . . . There are times when it is necessary to confront an offender. In such cases, unconditional forgiveness is not an option. These generally involve more serious sins- � not petty or picayune complaints, but soul-threatening sins or transgressions that endanger the fellowship of saints.[4]
Ken Sande
Ken Sande agrees that there are times when a matter should be overlooked.[5] And, he also agrees that in most ideally forgiveness should follow repentance. Sande pictures forgiveness as a two stage process. In his words:
When an offense is too serious to overlook and the offender has not yet repented, you may need to approach forgiveness as a two-stage process. The first stage requires having an attitude of forgiveness, and the second, granting forgiveness. Having an attitude of forgiveness is unconditional and is a commitment you make to God . . . By his grace you seek to maintain a loving and merciful attitude toward someone who has offended you . . .
Granting forgiveness is conditional on the repentance of the offender and takes place between you and that person . . . When there has been a serious offense, it would not be appropriate to [make the promises of forgiveness] until the offender has repented.[6]
Justin Taylor
�Love your enemies� is something that we should do at all times and in all places. It is modeled after God�s love for his enemies, whom he loves even when they are �unjust� and �evil� (Luke 6:35). At the same time, our forgiveness of others is likewise modeled upon God�s forgiveness of sinners, whom he forgives conditioned upon their repentance. God does not forgive apart from repentance; neither should we. In major offenses, we are not to forgive the unrepentant.
In the event of a tragedy that involves the loss of human life brought about by wanton human sin, it is therefore wrong for Christians to call upon immediate forgiveness in the absence of repentance. Such a call both cheapens and misunderstands the biblical doctrine of forgiveness.[7]
John Piper
In a sermon, John Piper pointed to the conditional nature of forgiveness.[8] While Piper allowed that at points Christians should forgive unconditionally he also added:
One last observation remains: forgiveness of an unrepentant person doesn�t look the same as forgiveness of a repentant person.
In fact I am not sure that in the Bible the term forgiveness is ever applied to an unrepentant person. Jesus said in Luke 17:3-4 �Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, �I repent,� forgive him.� So there�s a sense in which full forgiveness is only possible in response to repentance.
But even when a person does not repent (cf. Matt. 18:17) we are commanded to love our enemy and pray for those who persecute us and do good to those who hate us (Luke 6:27).
The difference is that when a person who wronged us does not repent with contrition and confession and conversion (turning from sin to righteousness), he cuts off the full work of forgiveness. We can still lay down our ill will; we can hand over our anger to God; we can seek to do him good; but we cannot carry through reconciliation or intimacy.
ManOfGod... I'm sorry you feel like you're getting slammed all the time. I know the feeling and it's definitely not a very pleasant one. And if any of my posts have come across as judgmental, I am truly sorry, for I don't mean for them to come across that way.
The verse that always seems to come to my mind when posting on here is the one that talks about what to do when a brother sins against you. You confront him. If that doesn't work, you do so again, but this time with someone else with you. Afterwards, tell the church... if he still doesn't listen, then to treat him as a pagan or a tax collector. I always wonder why we are supposed to be so up-front about these things. Because it is a serious matter? Yes. Because we love our brothers and sisters? Yes. But I think one of the biggest reasons we are supposed to take action is because our brother's actions may be tearing down more than that one person. Others may be seeing the destruction that is being caused and may stumble. So when we confront one person, we are really making a larger difference than we can see. That is why there are comments on here that may come across as judgmental. They point out our worse qualities, and that hurts. But it is necessary to help us grow.
On the flip-flop, though, it is important ourselves to observe the "plank in the eye" scenario. (Another hard thing to admit). A lot of times, we forget that we ourselves are just as imperfect than everyone else here. We get caught up in keeping the law and forget that our righteousness doesn't come from the law, but from Christ. We get proud... arrogant... and that puts us in the seat of judgement, because we consider ourselves better than others. HUGE mistake! :laugh:
I hope that through all of this, we may be able to look back one day and see our errors, being thankful that they were made known. It is always a blessing to be put through trials and tests, because that develops perseverance, which develops character and gives us hope. I am personally sorry if what I have said in the past has come across the wrong way. Just trying to help some brothers and sisters out. I trust that y'all will do the same when I start to waver off course. Much love to you all!
Thanks brother Garrett,and thanks Ella.....yeah,Im chillin....I dont know why I let people get to me,Gods workin on me daily,and Im guilty as well of the same things I get mad at others for......got many planks to deal with............................Peace in Christ....Steve:peace::peace:
It all starts with you regardless. This is the only way you can find your peace from within. You repent of your sins before God, so that YOU will be in right standing with God and be forgiven of your sins, and leave the rest to God to handle.
Pride prevents us from seeing our own faults, and makes us keep our eye on the other person's faults. This is how you get ride of the planks in your own eyes, through repentance before God and forgiving.
This is also why Jesus says, not to judge others, not that as believers we're not to judge, we are to judge rihgteously.
Becasue as Paul says, in I Corinthians chpater 5-6, did you not know the saints will be judging the angels?
So the point of not judging others , is that we make sure we are not doing so unrighteously, and to make sure you (we)have cleared the forest that is in your (our)own eyes before you do judge someone else. Otherwise, God will judge us according to the way we have judged others.
Paul writes in Romans chapter 2, you're without excuse O man of God, how can you righteously judge anyone when you yourself are commiting the same sin, or if you yourself are in agreement with someone you favor, who is commiting the same sin you judge others in, and you have not called them on it.
So, Your recovery starts from within you! REPENT BEFORE GOD, and be man and Christ-like enough to go to your brother/sister and ask for forgiveness. It matters not if you feel you were wronged, you both are in the wrong. But since you are the stronger of the two, YOU make the move toward reconciliation as according to Matthew chapter 5... its for your good not the one who offended... READ IT!... cleanse your heart through repentance to God and the one who offended you... and keep it movin!
BTW, And since the fight started in the public on the forum, it should also be done publicly on the forum...so get a move on ya... lol :applause::angel::rocknroll::hearts:
Steve, when I wrote in tha other post it was not my intention to attack you but to calm you down.I did admit somebody pushed my buttons too. Sometimes you just have to move on in life and let it be. I am far from perfect. I error quite often. Relax, ok.
