Many do believe that just because you�re baptized you�re saved. There wrong you�re saved when you truly ask Christ for salvation.
Baptism is a picture of death, burial, and resurrection and Jesus wants us to be baptized and join a church of believers and have that fellowship He knows we need. But all we have to do to be saved is ask. People make it to difficult and Christ knew that.
There is no way we can ask the lord for salvation and never sin again. That is why He laid His life down for us. We can�t save ourselves we have to have faith that Jesus Christ Died conquered hell and rose for us.
Now for the security part, We can fall anytime and go out there and live like were lost but if we have ever truly asked Christ for salvation, Believing in our heart that Christ was crucified buried and rose conquering hell and the grave for us you still will be saved.
You can know for sure and have that security it all depends on whether you believe and have asked for salvation.
Matt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
You can prophecy in His name, and cast out devils in his name and do wonderful works. But if you haven�t asked He will not give salvation.
JAMES 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
We�re not supposed to straddle the fence but if you have asked Christ for salvation you will never fall from His hands. We�re not going to be perfect until we get there in Heaven. We need to strive to be though.
MATTHEW 6: 24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
You can�t serve two masters and you will be serving one or the other but that doesn�t mean that you will lose your salvation. It means that you are sinning.
You can know for certain. If you believe Christ came here to earth to give salvation freely. It can be as simple as asking dear lord remember me in your kingdom or you can make it as long as you want. He wants to be your personal savior. Jesus Christ knows your heart.
EPHESIANS 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
As always I would ask that you read the Bible for yourself.
Well you have addressed two issues in your post. Baptism as being not required and OSAS/Eternal Security. With all due respect neither of them can be substantiated in scripture. The OSAS issue I will address later. Let's examine the Baptism issue. I will challenge you to closely examine these scriptures in my post. I once believed to some degree as you did, but after being properly challenged to examine scriptures I had not honestly studied in depth, my understanding grew a great deal. Since we do not have the luxury of changing fonts I will CAP words and place *** to emphasize words and phrases.
Mark 16: 16 "He who believes *AND***IS BAPTIZED** will be saved; but he who does not believe[disbelieves] will be condemned. NKJV
Jesus made a positive statement by giving us assurance of our salvation in that we are saved if we first.....believe, which means have faith and second, that we are BAPTIZED. We see TWO elements listed and one of them is water Baptism. By Jesus using the conjunctive word "AND" (kai in Greek) clearly links baptism and faith as two necessary elements.
Now there are a few who will try and use the second part of the verse to override the first part, "but he who does not believe will be condemned. They will say that since Jesus did not say he who is not baptized will be condemned or some similar wording implies that baptism is not necessary. That argument is simply not logical and is a violation of Hermeneutics. Who would want to get baptized if they didn't believe to begin with? The words Jesus used ..."does not believe" means "Disbelieved" This is someone who heard the Gospel and then rejected it. Who would go and line up to be baptized after they rejected the Gospel? Mark 16:16 settles the entire argument about water Baptism.
Now let's look at what I believe is one of the most important passages in the New Testament whereby we see a perfect example of the model for preaching the Gospel and giving the elements for salvation.
Peter while recently being filled with the Holy Spirit as well as the other Apostles, preached the very first sermon with the power of the Holy Spirit. This means that the Holy Spirit was speaking through him. He was preaching to a few thousand Jews who were the ones who previously were responsible for crucifying Jesus Christ. Look carefully on how Peter accused them of their sinful deed and then their response and then Peter's.
Acts 2: 36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
At this point Peter had nailed them hard and after they were convicted of their sin they asked Peter and the Apostles what they needed to do. It is obvious that at this point they had faith and believed that Jesus was the Christ whom they crucified but as we can see even with their true faith in Christ, they were still NOT saved as yet. Peter then responds.
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ UNTO (for) the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation."
41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
42 � And they continued steadfastly in the apostles� doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. NKJV
Now notice that Peter told them what they needed to do in order to be purged from their guilt of their sin and to receive forgiveness of their sin and receive the Holy Spirit.
First they needed to "Repent". Then he said the needed to be baptized in Jesus name and that is ***FOR*** the remission of sins. To be baptized in Jesus name means to be baptized in His authority. It is the same when we Baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Next in the passage we see what happens AFTER being baptized and that is to receive the Holy Spirit.
The Greek text conclusively demonstrates that the word "FOR" in this passage only has one meaning. The word "FOR" is better translated "UNTO". Both carry the same meaning. The word "FOR" or "eis" is a Greek "transitive preposition" and is used 1774 times in the New Testament and in every instance it means FOR or UNTO and NEVER does it mean "because of". If the word meant "because of", it would imply that remission of sins is due to a PRIOR act and that baptism played no part. Unfortunately for those who try to make that argument, the Greek does not support that conclusion or definition. A transitive preposition means that it has a forward progress to an object to a desired result. Baptism is FOR/UNTO the remission of sins.
The text of Peter's sermon states plainly that baptism is �for the remission of sins.� The Greek word translated �for� is the preposition, �eis.� It is extremely common in the New Testament, appearing some 1774 times.
�Eis� is a transitive preposition, meaning that progress is inherent in the meaning. It is most often translated �into� or �unto� in the KJV. The general sense is progression to a point reached. The inherent forward progress is always present when used with a transitive verb � a verb that implies motion, progression, or transition. The transitive force of �eis�is sometimes even apparent when used with intransitive verbs (state of being verbs) � which normally do not themselves imply progress, yet the transitive nature of "eis" overpowers the intransitive power of the verb (cf. Rom. 1:16)
Here is an interesting quote from one the Earliest Church Fathers.
Ignatius (disciple of John the Apostle) appeals to Rom. 6:5
"Wherefore also, ye appear to me to live not after the manner of men, but according to Jesus Christ, who died for us, in order that, by believing in His death, ye may by baptism be made partakers of His resurrection." (Ignatius, Epistle to the Trallians, II)
The Gnostics Pervert Baptism
"It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of �redemption� as there are teachers of these mystical opinions. And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place, that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith." (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Bk. I, ch xxi) Irenaeus was the Disciple of Polycarp who was a Disciple of John the Apostle.
No Phillip, the scriptures say exactly as I have laid it out. Please demonstrate where my exegesis is in any error. Show me where i violated any Hermeneutic.
dear phillip,, ya know its ok to just say i disagree with ya on that.. but it would be very helpful to all of us if you would explain why you believe as you do.. what scriptures led you to believe as you do.. or just what it is that makes you believe as you do..
i admit i havent read all of this post yet but i am interisted in what you have to say..
since i havent read it all yet i dont know if i agree or disagree yet.. but its nice to have others inputs..
walter usually lays things out pretty good for us.. now i dont always agree with him on everything hehe but thats cool too.. but i will tell you this i understand why he believes as he does .. and how he came to his comclusion, and i do agree with him more often than not..
thats what id love to get from you too.. so i can see your point and where you are coming from..
its not a requirement though.. you may answer as you wish.. i mean you can say thats not what the bible says over and over again if you like.. but it sure would be nice if you lets us understand where youre comin from on things ..
i for one am really interisted in knowing what you think..
Ole Cattle. I never mean and disrespect by any means, but it might be very disrespectful to the lord to state that baptism is necessary for salvation.
I personally believe that the word of God is true, The new covenant is stiil the same as the day it was it was breathed.
Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 � For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
4 � While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
This people received the holy spirit and where not Baptized and until after they received the Holy Spirit
In this context also notice it says they know they receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues not because they where where baptized, they received the word preached just as Romans tells us.
The Word Says Whosever shall call upon the name of the lord shall be saved.
