Thread: Mosaic Covenant. Was it done away and replaced?
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Mosaic Covenant. Was it done away and replaced?
Posted : 9 Feb, 2010 12:19 AM
Hi Everyone,
Someone just asked me about this issue and so I am bringing it up again. I did this once before but it is many pages back.
The Mosaic Law/Covenant was a specific Covenant given exclusively to Israel and was never binding upon mankind as a whole. This has been a source of confusion among Christians. Let's look at to whom the Mosaic Covenant was given to.
Exod 31:16-18
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.(KJV)
Deut 5:1-3
1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
(KJV) [Moses them recounted the 10 Commandments in the following verses].
We see clearly from these statements that the Old Covenant, and particularly the 10 Commandments, were NOT universal laws binding on all mankind since creation, but were specific to Israel, from the days of Moses onward. So are the Ten Commandments part of the Mosaic Covenant?
Exod 34:28
28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
(KJV)
Deut 4:13
13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
(KJV)
So we see from the above scriptures that the Ten Commandments are in fact "The Covenant" or let's say the centerpiece of the Mosaic Covenant. There is also no difference between the terms Mosaic Covenant, Old Covenant, The Law and The Mosaic Law and the Law of Moses. They are all the same thing. The Bible makes no distinction.
Now when Jesus came He came to give us a New Covenant via His sacrifice for us. It is through His sacrifice in which we are able to be grafted into the Jewish New Covenant and inherit the blessings of entering the Kingdom of God.
Jer 31:31-32
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (KJV)
It must be emphasized that this NEW Covenant is NOT a Gentile Covenant but a Jewish Covenant given to Israel First and then we who are Gentiles can be "grafted into" this Jewish Covenant. Jesus gave the New Covenant to His Apostles who are the 12 representatives of the 12 tribes of Israel in whom the Promise of this NEW Covenant was promised by God.
So now that we have a New and better Covenant, what happened to the Old one? It was completely done away with and replaced. You cannot have two covenants running at the same time. That defeats the purpose of the New one.
Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH�
9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Now look what Paul says next about the New and Old Covenants.
13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first OBSOLETE. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to VANISH AWAY.
Paul said that the first Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, has been made "obsolete" and that it was ready to "vanish away". Why is that?
Because The New Covenant that was promised by God has now come into being. God fulfilled His promise to Israel that He made in Jeremiah 31:31. He was going to make a New Covenant and it was not going to based upon the Old Mosaic Covenant. It was going to be something entirely new.
Heb 10:8-10
8 Above when he said, "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law";
9 Then said he, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God." He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (KJV)
In verse 9 above we have clear language that demonstrates that God took away the Mosaic Covenant so that He may establish the Second Covenant.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Above in Ephesians 2:14 we see that Jesus Christ "abolished" the Law of commandments contained in ordinances. What are those? Those are all the Laws contained in the Mosaic Covenant. All 613 of them which includes the original Ten Commandments. Does this mean that we can now murder and commit adultery? Of course not. Jesus implemented God's "Moral Principles" in the New Covenant which is also known as "The Law of Christ". It is important to distinguish between God's "Moral Principles" and the laws themselves. In part two I will address the New Covenant, The Law of Christ. Before I do I would like for you to examine the situation that the Early Church was having regarding the Gentiles and how the leaders of the Church came to the theological conclusion that the Gentile Christians were never under "the Mosaic Law" and were never bound to any of it's requirements.
(Acts 15:23-24) �The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings,
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, �You must be circumcised and keep the law� � to whom we gave no such commandment � it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.
For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.� .
Act 21:18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.
19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;
21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.
23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow.
24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.
25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."
Wonderful job, Walter. This is why the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit is such an important part of our salvation. We don't need a written set of laws, we have the Holy Spirit to convict us of sin. Kind of hard to get away with something with God dwelling in you.
That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
Isa 11:12
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Jer 29:14
And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.
See here we see that we those who are in the kingdom of Yah ARE Israel...he will gather us up from the nations he scattered us therein...
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Explain where the law has been done away with here...according to Yahshua not one jot or tittle has past
Psa 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 40:8I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.
Psa 119:70 Their heart is as fat as grease; [but] I delight in thy law.
Psa 119:77 Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live: for thy law [is] my delight.
Psa 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law [is] my delight.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Even Paul says here that the law is a delight to keep to Yahweh!!!
Act 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Act 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled [them] in condemning [him].
Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Act 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted [thither].
Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Paul obviously kept sabbath determined by several scriptures here...and look what else he has to say...
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Oh i see so we are establish the law not do away with it and say we have authority over god and make our own laws according to what feels good to our flesh...
Now here we see the struggle and death he finds in sin and the delight and life he finds in the law...
Rom 7:7 � What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 � Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Need i go on? This is just a taste brothers...and let me add that if Paul kept the law and was a roman then that means he was not and Israelite...so if he too upheld the law how much more should we delight in the law??? Ponder this and I'll wait for a response...
let me also add another teaching of Yahshua. i already elaborated on this but needed to finish his words...
Mat 5:17 � Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Yahshua came a man to prove that man has the ability to keep the Torah...and you should be very fearful of the consequences if you teach otherwise...for you will suffer greatly...
So, you think Jesus left something undone on the cross? Jesus did not do away with the law, He fulfilled it. But, if you want to be justified by the law, go ahead. Me? I will stick with grace.
I mentioned to you in a personal e-mail that we need to stick with the scriptures I posted in my original article first. This is the only way we can discuss this issue without going all over the place and posting a bunch of scriptures. Line upon line and precept upon precept. Other scriptures will be addressed. If you just intend to have a battle of scriptures then I will not play along with you as it is a fruitless endeavor.
One of the fundamental principles of Bible study is to look at scripture in a "Progressive" manner. In other words we look at the beginning first and view the scriptures as the original audience would have. This is the "Historical" Hermeneutic. This is where we first establish the "Context". Then we look at the Grammatical as Grammar is highly critical for understanding, then Literal and then we harmonize. Are you aware of these facts? Have you been taught this?
One of the scriptures you brought up is one that would have been addressed shortly. I will address it now but we need to go back to my original post and see if you can demonstrate any errors I made, if any.
I see you are misinterpreting what Jesus meant in Matthew concerning "fulfilling" what some interpret as "the Law". This has been a source of great confusion among many. Let's clear it up.
Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
First it is important to notice that Jesus did not say just "the Law". He also mentioned "the Prophets". Why do you think that is? Do you think He was talking exclusively about the Mosaic Law or was there something else intended? If Jesus was coming just to "fulfill The LAW" then no mention of the Prophets would have been necessary.
When we deal with "Prophets" we normally are dealing with "Prophesies". What prophesies?"
Jesus was talking about coming to fulfill all the Prophesies that are contained in the Mosaic Law and the Prophets concerning His First Coming. Is there any other passage of scripture in the New Testament that could help us confirm this? Yes.
After the Resurrection Jesus met up with two Disciples on the road to Emmaus and had an interesting conversation with them. In fact Jesus taught them many things. What things?
Luke 24:25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?"
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. NKJV
Luk 24:44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."
45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
46 Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
So we that Jesus explained to them about all the Prophesies concerning Himself from Moses onward including all the Prophets.
Now let's continue with the rest of this passage and look at other misinterpretations.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
It is very important to get the Grammar correctly here. Notice above that Jesus is NOT saying that the law will not pass away until heaven and earth passes away. He is saying that it will not pass away UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED. Did Jesus fulfill all the Prophesies concerning His First Coming? Of course He did. Then since He fulfilled these prophesies then the Law can in fact pass away and did. That is what Jesus is talking about and if it is not then we have a huge contradiction with other NEW Testament passages that clearly shows the Mosaic Law....ALL of it, including the Ten Commandments, was completely replaced, done away with, made obsolete. Before I address the scriptures dealing with the Mosaic Law, let me finish this passage.
Now in verse 19 we have another statement that has many confused. Grammar again is so important.
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of THESE commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. NKJV
The key here is to understand what Jesus is saying when He says "THESE commandments". There are two possibilities in the Greek grammar regarding "these commandments".
First off Jesus didn't mention any Commandments yet. We cannot make any arbitrary statement and say He was talking about Moses as He simply did not say which ones. We could include the commandments to Noah as well if we go down that path.
The word "these" is a demonstrative pronoun and can either be an "Antecedent" or "Postcedent".
Jesus is either referring to the Antecedent...previous verses of Mat 5:3 -16 or Postcedent....the following verses after His statement which would be the rest of the entire Sermon on The Mount. Considering the extensiveness of the rest of the Sermon on the Mount compared to just a few verses previously taught, it would be a more weighty conclusion that Jesus was referring to the rest of His sermon. [postcedent.]
Additionally we have a statement from Jesus at the end of this discourse that solidifies my position.
Mat 7:24 "Therefore whoever hears THESE SAYINGS of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
What sayings? All the teachings He just gave us in Matthew chapters 5,6 & 7.
Now let's deal with a particular Prophesy that Jesus fulfilled and this one is one of the most important I believe. I am going to use the Hebrews quote of Paul because he quotes Jeremiah 31:31 and applies it to US as a fulfilled prophecy given to Israel and in which we have access to it through Christ.
Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH�
9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
DON'T MISS THIS NEXT COMMENT BY PAUL!
13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first OBSOLETE. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to VANISH AWAY.
Paul clearly said that God has made (past tense) the OLD Covenant OBSOLETE and was ready to vanish away. Paul is speaking about the Mosaic Law...ALL of it, not just part of it. That is all 613 Commandments including the original Ten. Notice that the Prophesy says clearly that the NEW Covenant was NOT going to be based upon anything of the OLD Covenant but be something entirely different. If this is not true then this is one reason why the statement of Jesus in Matthew 5 would be a direct contradiction to Hebrews 8 above as well as others.
The question we must ask is this. Are the Ten Commandments separate from the Mosaic Law or are they it's centerpiece?
Exod 34:28
28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
(KJV)
Deut 4:13
13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
(KJV)
There is no question and it is irrefutable that the Ten Commandments are the Mosaic Covenant. Since that is clearly the fact of scriptures and the scriptures state with absolute certainty that they were replaced, done away with, made obsolete, then there is no reason for them to continue. Now don't make the mistake many on this board have made and assume that God's Moral PRINCIPLES have been done away with as Christ re-intituted God's Moral Principles in the NEW Covenant beginning at the Sermon on the Mount.
Heb 10:8-10
8 Above when he said, "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law";
9 Then said he, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God." He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (KJV)
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Jesus fulfilled the "prophesies" concerning His First Coming and was not talking about the Mosaic law in and of itself in Matt 5:17. If He was then we have a clear contradiction in scriptures listed above as they demonstrate that the Mosaic Law was indeed completely replaced or else God lied to us in Jeremiah 31:31. The only way to reconcile this is to have the proper interpretation of all these passages by maintaining the principles of Hermeneutics, which I believe I have done.
well what YAHSHUA did on the cross was release us of the sin that was against us...reminding us that we can't keep the commandments because we are sinners...now that we are free from that we CAN live in perfect righteousness as YAHSHUA did when he walked the earth... By the way the emphasis on Yahshua is because "Jesus" is the greek pagan name that was not what Yahshua was called when he walked the earth and you defile him ever time you say that name...What's the third commandment...not to take the his name in vein...in Hebrew the word vein means bring it to mean nothing...do you know what "Jesus" means...in greek in means one of two things...Horse...or Zeus...and neither refer to messiah...And as far as the law and grace goes...the law is grace...what Yahshua did on the cross was not only as i mentioned earlier...but what was also nailed on the cross was the slavery to men commands that were added to Torah... The Grace everyone refers to is Yahweh's grace saying all you have to do now is follow my commands, not the extra 6000 commands given by man who profess to have authority over the Torah...and im sorry for what im about to say but when you say i'll just stick with grace...all that your saying is i am happy with my sin and i don't need god's commands i will rule my own life with my own iron septor...You see Torah exposes the sin of man...that is why they all reject it...but if your fine and dandy with it than you go ahead and stay there...but when you don't get taken out of this world when all hell breaks lose like all christians who believe in the rapture...you will not be prepared to survive what will happen...you will be deceived as the rest of the world...and you may recall this conversation at that time...so heed my words now and find out as much as you can...because you DON'T have as much time as you think...the worlds time line is not Yahweh's time line...and if you have been watching the signs in the sky you would know this...so take this in carefully...or go on believing as the world wants you to...not as Yahweh wants you to...but im here as long as the world still has electricity...and im open to discussion...Shalom to you...
whoa dude...walter....stop right there at the interpretation of... 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.you completely left out the fact that the law is not done away with until heaven and earth pass away as well...he is not just talking about what he has already fulfilled but what has not been fulfilled yet as well...and im pretty sure heaven and earth are still here...and when your talking about "Jesus" saying that "these commandments" is not specific enough is exactly the kind of deception that Satan wants you to see...when he says these commandments he simply means all of them...Yahshua IS TORAH IN THE FLESH THEREFORE THE WORDS THAT COME OUT OF HIS MOUTH IS TORAH...everything that came out of his mouth came from the father and Yahweh never changes...that's why you can know that it is ALL the commandments he is talking about...because he does not add nor take away from his own word...
I am well aware of the history of the languages and the name Jesus, but have had the revelation that it is not the letter, but the Spirit that pleases God.
Let's look at your belief for a minute. The law, and the following thereof, have a direct bearing on salvation. How does this hold up to slvation coming by grace through faith and that not of ourselves lest any man should boast? Not enough? How about a few examples? Remember the tax collector and the Pharisee praying? Which did Jesus think was more righteous? The Pharisees followed every law to the letter and then some, but Jesus was not impressed. Our faith is not now, nor was it ever, about following a strict set of rules.....it is about love from a pure heart.
As for being here throughout the tribulation, of course I will be. Just as you and every other person on earth at that time will be here. The rapture is Satan's greatest deceit. He will show himself standing in the temple claiming to be Jesus and saying, come to me with your families and we will fly away together. Millions will flock to him and be condemned because they listened to a false teaching. Do we have a suit of armor or a birdsuit to fly away in? Did God take the Israelites out before the plagues? Or His followers before the Babylonian siege? He will protect His people, but we will be here, count on it.
Ok leon...or should i just call you leo...since we don't have to do anything to the letter...the Pharisees created all kinds of extra laws...added to the law what they wanted and took away what didn't meet the needs of their flesh which is what christians do...im not saying you add to the word...but your certainly taking away the entire torah...as if god never wrote a law for us to follow...but for Walter's sake lets stick to scriptures regarding his original post...i don't want to turn a blind cheek to him as all religion does to Torah...so i will honor him in this...
Well...I think the moral law is the 10 commandments. Jesus did lay out the moral law, and He also kept all 10 commandments and neither He nor His disciples ever told anyone to do otherwise. Walter, I know you agree that there is still a day of rest, so I think you believe the 10 commandments are included in the moral law as well. There is perfect new testament biblical proof for all 10...and no new testament support for the law bound up in ordinances(sacrifices, circumcision, feast days, etc...the old covenant). In fact Paul counseled believers to stay away from the old covenant...he was actually worried about them because they were falling back into it and judging others under it.
* First Commandment: You shall have no other gods before Me
Matthew 4:10; 6:24; 22:37-38; Luke 4:8; Revelation 14:7.
* Second Commandment: Thou shalt not worship Idols
* Third Commandment: Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain
Matthew 5:33-34; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7.
* Fourth Commandment: Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it Holy
Matthew 12:8, 12; 24:20; Mark 1:21; 2:27-28; 6:2; Luke 4:16, 31; 6:5; 23:56; Acts 13:14, 42, 44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:1-2; 18:4; Hebrews 4:4, 9-10
* Fifth Commandment: Honour your father and your mother
Matthew 15:4; 19:19; Mark 7:10; 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:30; Ephesians 6:1-2; Colossians 3:20; 2 Timothy 3:2.
* Sixth Commandment: Thou shalt not Murder
Matthew 5:21-22; 19:18; Mark 7:21; 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29; 13:9; Galatians 5:21; 1 Timothy 1:9; James 2:11; 1 Peter 4:15; 1 John 3:15; Revelation 9:21; 21:8; 22:15.
* Seventh Commandment: Thou shalt not commit Adultery
Matthew 5:27-28; 19:18; Mark 7:21; 10:11-12, 19; Luke 16:18; 18:20; Acts 21:25; Romans 1:29; 2:22; 7:3; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:9, 18; 10:8; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Hebrews 13:4; James 2:11; 2 Peter 2:14; Jude 1:7; Revelation 2:14; 2:21-22; 9:21.
* Eighth Commandment: Thou shalt not Steal
Matthew 19:18; Mark 7:22; 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 2:21; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:10; Ephesians 4:28; 1 Peter 4:15; Revelation 9:21.
* Ninth Commandment: Thou shalt not bear false witness
Matthew 15:19; 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; John 8:44; Acts 5:3-4; Romans 1:29; 13:9; Ephesians 4:25; Colossians 3:9; 1 Timothy 4:2; 2 Timothy 3:3; Revelation 21:8; 22:15.
* Tenth Commandment: Thou shalt not Covet your neighbour's things
Mark 7:22; Luke 12:15; Acts 20:33; Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:10; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3, 5; 1 Timothy 6:10; 2 Timothy 3:2; 2 Peter 2:14; Hebrews 13:5.
And you know me :laugh: Have to emphasize a couple :goofball:
Matt 24:15-22
15 "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;
17 let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house;
18 and let him who is in the field not turn back to get his cloak.
19 "But woe to those who are with child and to those who nurse babes in those days!
20 "But pray that your flight may not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath;
21 for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.
22 "And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days shall be cut short.
There are two possible interpretations of Jesus' prophecy here. He is either talking about the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, or about His second coming. In either event, Jesus clearly expected His followers to be observing the Sabbath a long time after His death.
Isa 66:22-23
22 "For just as the new heavens and the new earth which I make will endure before Me," declares the LORD, "So your offspring and your name will endure.
23 "And it shall be from new moon to new moon and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all mankind will come to bow down before me," says the LORD.
I just wanted to point out that I believe the sabbath is still relevant. I know that there is no command to go to church on Saturday, so I have no problems...but I do think that it is still part of the "moral law", and that Jesus was expecting His followers to be resting on it after He was dead...which they did. I'm not trying to hold it over anybody's head...just sayin'...don't forget it.
Anyway...the bible does say that the old covenant was done away with, and it does say that a "law bound up in ordinances" was nailed to the cross...and you can't nail something that doesn't exist to the cross...so something was done away with for sure, and I think Walter explained it pretty well.
