I think that it is either June or July. John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus. I am not sure of the Month or the day. I just had found out a few years ago that Old Babylon in Iraq. Another one is if you look on your calendar and see that Sunday is the 1st day of the week not last day of the week. Bieing the church's of each faith have been keeping the wrong Sabbath. Easter is another Holiday that had been placed in the wrong Holiday for Christians. I am learning and being disappointed as I go of what I have not questioned and had acted on by the repeating traditions of what was taught. It is difficult to change traditions....
The Birthdate of Christ cannot be argued conclusively. We really cannot be certain which date is correct.
A good case is presented for the dates of either during the
Festival of Sukkot in the Fall or late December.
The Catholic Church used the 25th of December because it was a pagan worship date for the sun god.
Ultimately it hinges around when Zacharias duties in The Temple came about, when The Angel Gabriel appeared to him. Zacharias had two weeks during the year when he (a priest of the Order Abijah) had to serve in the Temple.
The Jewish calendar begins in spring -- Nisan -- and that is when the Priests would start their rotations of one week tours of duty in The Temple. (1 Chronicles 24:7-19)
So, there were two weeks during the year that the Angel Gabriel could have appeared to Zacharias, each around six months apart.
John was conceived shortly there after (Luke 1:23-27) and Jesus was conceived six months later.
I can present arguments for either Fall or December, but I go with what The Church has decided and Celebrate HIS birth on the 25th of December.
It really is not of that importance and has become very commercialized. Of more importance to me is the Life -- Death and Resurrection of Christ.
3 For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, 4 and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures,
1 Co 15:3-4
It is still a question of interest and debate though.
I don't think that you will find many Christians that would disagree with you on the Sabboth being Saturday or that Sunday is the first day of the week.
Sunday has been the day of worship as far back as Justin Martyr (in his writings he describes services) churches, from Gaul to Armenia, had their main worship service on Sunday.
Back then the Roman calendar was 10 days long. In 325 AD, Constantine changed the Roman week from ten days to seven days, so that Sunday, the Christian day of worship would always be a holiday.
Sunday is the day of Christian worship because it is the day of the Resurrection, the day after the Sabbath, and the Feast of Firstfruits�which is why Paul calls Jesus� resurrection the firstfruits of the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:20). Since it is the first day of the week, it is also the eighth day of the previous week, the day of the new creation (the allusion in 2 Corinthians 5:17).
The Sabbath commandment does not say you have to worship on that day, it prohibits working on that day. Worship can occur on any day.
Jesus spoke of the traditons of men (small "t") but instructed His Apostles to Teach all His Commandments and to hold true the Traditions (capital "T") that were passed on to them. The traditions of a birthday cake with candles, of fireworks on the 4th of July, of the wedding ring and so on are man's traditions.
If you were to go back in time to one of the seven Churches just 30 years after Christ's Death and witnessed their service and saw that it resembled nothing of what you are used to, but was structured and liturgical..would you say to them "none of that is in Scupture..where did you get that?"
Their answer would be:
"Paul told us that this is the way we are to Worship Christ and to hold fast this Tradition and to pass it on to Trustworthy Elders."
God's Tradition.
There is much confusion being disseminated in The Body of Christ -- much Sophistry that some people swallow as truth.
Look to which Church is being attacked the most...which Church is surrounded by those that would like to see Her on Her knees...and you will see the Church that the dark one wants demolished in a most fierce way. The dark one has been fighting Her since Christ created Her and has made great progress -- but will never triumph.
Test everything you are told! Read what The Early Church had to say. Your mind can be confounded and your higher faculties and intellect can be used against you. Ask yourself:
Why would Christ start a Church and Promise that NOTHING will prevail against Her...only to allow His plan of Salvation to go flying around through time like a spinning top and become over 30,000 different churches all preaching Scripture.
Where is that Church He started? It was a real Church...not some "church in the sky" but a real, brick and mortar Church.
Search your Hearts...search Scripture...read the Early Church fathers...read those that were taught by The Apostles themselves.
Actually you can get pretty close to Jesus' birthday. We know His ministry was close to, if not exactly, 3 1/2 years. And we know He died the day after passover. So, that would put His birthday in the fall sometime. But who cares? If God wanted us to worship the day He would have revealed it to us....and even if He had...we would probably be worshiping the day, just like we do with Christmas and Easter. A lot of churches only see their members on those two days...out of the whole year. And I'd say people are right to ask these questions. Why is Christmas on a previous pagan holiday? Why is Easter on a previous Pagan holiday? Why is Halloween "All Saints Day"? Wasn't Sunday the highest day of the week for Roman pagans? Seems like a lot of paganism for christian beliefs/holidays.
I still say you'll have a hard time proving your point, Arch...Paul and the apostles were constantly correcting the churches right after Jesus died! While most of the Apostles were still alive! Tell me that 25...50....75 years later they were doing "ok", after all the pillars of the church were dead, and I won't believe you. Especially since the church that "came from the early church fathers" bows down to idols, prays to humans, changes the commandments of God, claims infallibility, burned/censored millions of "heretics", and let people pay for their sins with money. This is God's church? There may be a large part of God's church in that church, but that church has too many errors for me to believe "the early church fathers". Sorry for ranting...but I think the "church" needs to focus on the bible...not the "church fathers". When the pope sells his gold to feed the poor, I'll sign up....and it doesn't sound like the Catholic church is in too much trouble when every major head of state in the world bows before it, and when it has 1/8 of the entire world population in it's ranks...
I appolgize for getting you riled up...my button was pushed and I reacted (much as yours was). It has been a bone of contention ever since the rebellion.
Your points were:
("bows down to idols",)
When you kneel to pray and hold your Bible over your head...is it not the same? The Bible is paper and glue. Yes, it is the Word of God and those words are Sacred, but it is just a Symbol. Plus you have to understand that we Catholics believe Jesus when He said "if you do not eat of my Body and drink of my Blood you have no life in you" "for my Body is True Food". To us the Altar is a Sacred place and we show our reverance.
("prays to humans",)
If I were to ask you (a memeber of the Body of Christ) to pray for me, would that be praying to a human? Or do you "leave" the Body of Christ when you die? No...once a member, always a member and when we ask someone in Heaven to pray for us (say the Mother of Jesus), we are asking a fellow member. Also who's prayer will be more righteous and effacacious...Jesus' Mother or yours?
("changes the commandments of God",)
That's a new one that I have not heard yet. Which Commandments?
("claims infallibility",)
A very much misunderstood Doctrine and one I would be glad to discuss in private.
('burned/censored millions of "heretics"',)
Yes...many have died at the hands of religious fanatics, but there were Protestant hands in there also. I make no claim that The Church has been Perfect through Her years -- after all she is run by men.
("and let people pay for their sins with money")
One of the many things that the Church needed to address and has. The Church was in dire need of Reformation, but from within -- not spliting away and forming 30,000 different churches.
If you want we can continue this in private e-mail. I would be most happy to discuss anything with you. I just don't see any "friut" coming from open discussuion like this.
