I'm very confused on if there is a rapture or not? Will we as Christians really have to suffer thru the tribulation? How scarey?
I use to always believe in rapture until a few months ago a friend showed me scripture stating otherwise? Been confused ever since. Think know where I'm leaning on this but curious to get some more scripture so I can do some further research.
If it's true that there isn't a secret kind of rapture of any sort then why in Matthew 24:40-44 does it state then 2 men will be in the field one will be taken and the other left. 2 women will be grinding at the mill one will be taken the other left.
Where is the woman that's taken going and the woman left behind what's going to happen to her?
I'm not a date setter on Jesus return. Only God knows when Jesus returns no man, no angel knows not even Jesus himself only the father knows.
Do not be confused.The trbulation is for those who are unbelievers after the rapture happens.The anti-christ will come then those who convert afterwards will have to go through the tribulaton or die.If you do not believe in the 2nd ressurrection (rapture) then you will go through the tribulation.Now it could happen at 2 times before or as some believe mid,about 3 years into it. believe before hand.some belive right in the middle.As the mark of the beast comes in the middle.Dennis
Thankx for ur view point. How can you be so sure? Do you have any scripture to share with me on this.
I would really appreciate if you did. So u believe when it says one woman will be taken and one left behind that this is referring to the rapture. This is the same way I believed for many years now I'm not so sure.
Wondering what else it could mean when one is taken and one is left behind other than being rapture. Also the word rapture isn't in the bible so if the above verses isn't referring to rapture then what are these verses referring to.
Thankx for ur view on this and pray that ur view is right cuz I don't want any of us to have to suffer thru tribulation. The bible says this will be the worst times the Earth will ever have to suffer. Can't even write how horrific it will be. Our minds just don't think like that of how much sheer evil and agony we will have to endure. If it isn't for God cutting it short every living thing would be destroyed. God will stop the tribulation just in the nick of time. Pray it's not in our lifetime.
I've always been a play it safe kinda girl. U know prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I believe God is opening my eyes to this and that I'm leaning towards there is no rapture just Jesus second coming after tribulation.
This is one of those many things in God's Word that I wish weren't there but have no choice even though don't agree with it I have to believe it and accept it cuz God said so.
God makes up the rules he is a fair God who am I to question his intentions I'm a nobody we're all nobodies compared to his magnifence and Glory.
Dear LadyT, hopefully here are some words of encouragement ...
peace sis:glow:
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
There is no such thing as a Pre-Tribulation Rapture in the scriptures. Not one passage supports it. The Church has historically taught since the time of the Apostles up until the late 1700s AD that Christians, Christ's Church, The Bride will suffer through the Great Tribulation. Every passage dealing with this issue clearly demonstrates that it is Post-Tribulation Pre-Mill.
Here is just one post dealing with this.
1 Corinthians 15: 50-54
Below is one of the key main Resurrection and Rapture passages. Notice the context in verse 50. The Kingdom of God. Now the Kingdom we all know is not physically established on Earth until Christ returns AFTER the Great Tribulation. This is where He sets up His Kingdom on Earth, forever. This is part of the context.
1Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Why are we going to be changed? Because "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God".
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The phrase: The dead shall be raised incorruptible refers to the Resurrection of the bodies of the dead believers in Christ.
The phrase: "and we shall be changed, refers to the Rapture", which immediately follows the Resurrection.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
The phrase: Death is swallowed up in victory, is an Old Testament prophesy found in Isaiah 25:8
Notice that Paul tells us WHEN the resurrection and Rapture will occur. When an Old Testament passage comes to past. This is where we must look to Isaiah 25:8. But before you do, it would be good to read all of chapter 24 and then 25 to get the context. In summary, chapter 24 ends with a great earthquake and the "Sun and Moon" signs occuring and then the entire context of Isaiah 25 is the beginning of the establishment of the Kingdom of Christ here on Earth, which we know occurs AFTER the Great Tribulation. Also notice that God will wipe away all tears from off ALL faces. There is no question as to the timing of the Rapture here. It is clearly Post-Tribulational.
Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
When does God wipe away ALL tears from off ALL faces?
After Christ returns which is after the Great Tribulation where He sets up His Kingdom here on Earth. Paul has clearly told us that the future Resurrection AND Rapture occurs AFTER the Tribulation.
One more important point I will add to this is concerning Isaiah 24. Isaiah 25 follows 24 in proper sequence.
Isaiah 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
This is an interesting passage in not only that it talks about the Lord reigning but also the Sun and Moon signs. Why is this significant? Because the sun and moon signs are the signs that occur AFTER the Tribulation ends and just prior to the 2nd Coming of Christ our Lord. This is also known as "The Day of the Lord".
Acts 2: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
How do we know this is AFTER the great Tribulation? Let's see when Jesus places this event.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
So as we can see, all the passages above speak very clearly as the Resurrection AND the Rapture occuring AFTER the Great Tribulation, proving once again that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a seriously False Doctrine / Teaching and that the Post-Tribulation/Pre-Millennial Rapture is the only correct Biblical position.
Kimberly, I have heard arguments for and against a rapture so believe me when I say that I understand your confusion. Finally I resolved it this way...
When the Lord comes, who is He coming for? If He has counted every hair on your head and you Trust in Him, has He not promised that He would not forsake you? Kimberly, I know you love the Lord, your Love for Him shows. He will not forsake you. He is coming back for you because this evil entity in the world is so vile and so malevolent that we cannot survive against it. Be not afraid of your Savior. Keep your focus upon Him for He comes for His Children, and you ARE His Child.
Knowing this, are you willing to die for Him? You know it is written that it is for us to die but once. These bodies were never designed to live forever, but our new bodies will be designed for His Realm. Knowing this, any suffering we may endure here is temporary, and the Lord has promised to wipe every tear from our eyes. Death cannot claim us, for we are His. He is coming back for you.
The Day of the Lord is not something for you to fear. In fact, what are the first words angels say when they come? "Fear Not, the Lord is With you."
So be Bold and be Brave in Him and Stand for Christ, and He will not forsake you. The rest doesn't matter, for if your focus is like that of a Child on Him, you will know when He comes, that He has come for you.
Search your heart my Sister, you know this is True.
I believe the scripture about "one taken and another left" refers to the fact that no one knows who is really saved. When Jesus comes again after the tribulation, two men might be standing together and one will be taken up to Him, and one will be destroyed with the brightness of His coming.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The bible is saying that immediately after the tribulation, Christ comes to gather His elect. We don't go to heaven before the tribulation.
Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The gospel has not been preached to the whole world, so obviously the end hasn't come yet. Before the end, Christians will be hated and killed.
It is confusing...but in Matthew and in revelation, if you kinda interpret the bible with itself, it starts to make sense. God's people are persecuted before Jesus comes. Revelation 20 gives a good, if slightly incomplete account of what happens when Jesus comes.
After the tribulation(all the bowls/seals an' stuff)...Jesus returns, kills the wicked that are alive, and receives the saved to Himself. He binds Satan to the earth for 1000 years while the saved judge Satan and the wicked. Then Jesus comes back again in the New Jerusalem, resurrects all the wicked(who have all died once now). Then judgment is passed, and fire comes down from heaven, destroys the wicked(the second death) and cleanses the earth. God recreates the earth like it was before sin, and the saints inherit it as co-heirs with Christ.
if you just read revelation through slowly and first going in prayer to ask for understanding you will see that the "rapture" happens well into the tribulation. The two witnesses don't appear until after the tribulation is well under way,,make no mistake sister things are going to get rough for all,,all the set apart ones are to be judged all of Israel is to be judged we all should be in a state of repentance,,the two witnesses are going to be preaching repentance and calling us back to the Torah,,you can find much better information than you are getting here dear sister if you search for scot dryer his ministry is filled with Scriptures he gives you all the Scriptures you need to stand your ground against those who say we don't have to keep the commandments any more or people who lead you astray by telling you there will be a rapture before your judgement,,when has YAHWAH ever not been just in HIS judgment so we should welcome it if we live for HIM we should fear not HIS judgement only HIS wrath is for those who truly don't know HIM,,the Scriptures say that HE will come like a thief in the night but the rest of that verse says to those who are not keeping the Torah or in the dark,,,thats in 1 Thessalonians 5 where Sha'ul (Paul) says but you brothers are not in darkness,, the pains of birth come unexpected to those who don't understand HIS Torah they are in the dark,,Mattithyahu (Matthew) 24 talks about being ready for we know not the hour and time,,that is because we don't know the Feast if we did we would know that no one knows when the new year begins,,in the Hebrew calender only YAHWAH tells us when the new year begins not this man made calender we go by now but the sings are given to know when to look for the groom,, Mattithyahu (Matthew) 5:17 YASHUA says "don't think i have come to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy them but to complete." remember sister that YASHUA kept the Torah and the Feast and HE wanted us to keep them as well,,we all need to start understanding the Feast of the LORD,, they are all prophetic shadow pictures to the fulfillment of the days that YASHUA was here and the fulfillment of when HE will return HE wants us to be ready by keeping HIS commandments the written instructions better know as the Torah,,so this is kinda all jumbled together my presentation of information wasn't too good here i am sorry for that but if you want to see and hear for yourself these things that i am talking about look up Michael Rood and Scot Dryer two really awesome guys,,have fun sister the world of Scripture is about to be open to you if you seek it,,your brother in YASHUA
"a rapture or not? Will we as Christians really have to suffer thru the tribulation? How scarey?"
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God provides a way of escape. How did the children of Israel feel when Moses led them out to the Red Sea. It looked as if they were all going to die or be carried back into bondage. But God makes a way of escape. The word rapture can be synonymous for a way of escape. When the whole world is falling apart Jesus is Lord over the storm. When the earth all around me is sinking sand on Christ the solid rock I stand. How much more faith does it take to believe God will protect His church? All thoes who "live Godly will suffer persecution." 2 Timothy 3:12
Even if you are burned at the stake you can rejoice and rest on the words of Jesus.
"My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do."
matthew 24:36-44 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
no one really knows cept GOD THE FATHER.. JESUS S warning to us is to always be ready.. always.
