Author	Thread: Home Church~Would like anyone's experience and info on this
Admin	Home Church~Would like anyone's experience and info on this Posted : 1 Dec, 2009 05:34 PM I see someone on another thread has a home church~could you elaborate on that here and give me some info that I could read about this? I have been in many churches but feel in my spirit that something is not right with the way we have church compared to the book of Acts. I sincerely want to do what God ordained~not man. :purpleangel: Post Reply
rickc View Profile History	Home Church~Would like anyone's experience and info on this Posted : 1 Dec, 2009 06:28 PM Hi Joey! -- You wrote: "I see someone on another thread has a home church~could you elaborate on that here and give me some info that I could read about this? I have been in many churches but feel in my spirit that something is not right with the way we have church compared to the book of Acts." (I recently posted about this on another forum (theologica) & this is an easy copy & paste from it) --- The Primitive Church (in Acts-Jerusalem) was comprised of Jewish-Christians. Their communal lifestyle very closely resembled that of the Essenes. I believe thousands of early Christians had been Essenes. Paula Fredrickson commented on this @ PBS's "From Jesus to Christ" where she wrote: "The Essenes are another group of people very concerned with purity. There is a lot of purity ritual associated with them. Josephus and another first century historian and writer, Philo, talk about the Essenes as being a philosophic community [with] communal property. There was a group within the Essenes who were celibate. What's interesting is that this is the community that's also represented by the Dead Sea Scroll library. And, given what we now know about them, as a result of finding that library, we can measure the distance between a respectful description by somebody who's not an Essene, and what the Essenes were actually up to. The Essenes, themselves, were very apocalyptic. They were very concerned with purity. They were so concerned about the holiness of the Temple that at least the ones in Qumran had a reputation of not going up there at all....But how many people are we actually talking about?... [W]e have no way of testing [Josephus'] numbers, but if they're like any other kind of guess done either by a modern newspaper or by an ancient historian, they're not absolute. He mentions ... I'm not absolutely certain. I think his figures are like 6000 Pharisees, 4000 Essenes...maybe there were 20,000 Priests. Of those Priests, how many were aristocrats and therefore Sadducees? I don't know ... but a fraction of that. So that doesn't give us very many Jews actually accounted for. But there were millions of Jews in antiquity, which means that most people belonged to none of these groups. Who were these people? What did they think? We don't know because we only have the evidence for the groups that have articulated ideologies. I think we have to assume that most Jews who did not associate with one group or the other did the best they could interpreting what they thought was leading a Jewish life according to how the Bible happened to be interpreted in their neighborhood. Again, this is the vast majority of Jews, and as is the case with most populations in history, it's a silent majority because we don't have written evidence from them" (END QUOTE). The Essenes called themselves both "the poor (ones)" and (literally) "the pious (or righteous) ones." Joseph, the early father of Jesus, was referred to as a "righteous" man. Paul brought funds back for famine relief to "the poor" in Acts. In any event, the numbers of Essenes in NT times was possibly about 2/3rds as many as there were Pharisees - if Josephus' numbers were correct. We must keep in mind that not all Essenes were celibate. There was a celibate monastery in the Essene Quarter in Jesus' day. In fact, an Essene monk who lived there arranged the Last Supper (cf. Lu 22:10). It was these Essene monks' job to bring fresh water to the public latrine which was just outside the city (beyond the Essene Gate). A great book that confirms this is "Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls," edited by James Charesworth. There are direct 'parallels' between the Primitive Church's "government" and the Essenes'. Though the requirements and various laws varied, e.g., on penalties for breaking a law or rule, the commonalities are unmistakable and entirely fascinating! "The Community Rule" and other texts among the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) reveal these striking parallelisms. One was a three year probationary period before being fully admitted into the sect (cf. Gal 1:17-18). On Theologica THESE QUESTIONS WERE ASKED: Do I think Christians are called to this type of community living today? Why or Why not? What would be the pros? Cons? Obviously, people who live a monastic life live something like the Essenes and/or Primitive Church. There are those who live in same-sex arrangements (monasteries, convents) as well as others who are married, similarly as were married Essenes of whom Josephus said "they live in every city." We don't know for sure - (at least I don't, anyway, lol) - if these married Essenes lived together as families in the same housing. But I think some of them probably did. Josephus said they were like celibate Essenes in all other respects, outside of marrying and having children. My take on the Primitive Church was that it was either comprised mostly of Essenes or was very Essene-like in all it did. I believe all are called to make our possessions God's. That is, to be good stewards of what He has given (everything)! Some are called to celibate and/or monastic living - a gift and calling Protestant Christianity all but dismisses, save Anglicans (if they're Protestant, lol). So. We all take the Acts 'pattern' of lifestyle and polity to greater and lesser degrees, I would suppose. But must we "become" like the Essenes/Primitive Church exactly? I don't think so. Why not? Because the Pharisees who converted didn't have to give up being Pharisees totally (outside of believing Jesus is the Christ, and later not requiring circumcision, (cf. Acts 15). Many of the priests and others believed. Thousands of them (cf. Acts 21:20). As time went on, the Primitive Church probably "branched out" beyond its initial 'borders' of the Essene-like lifestyle, to include Pharisees and Sadducees (priests, scribes, and lawyers who had their own housing in the Temple or elsewhere). Yet at the same time, no one was required to give in the Primitive Church, as the Essenes demanded one sells all of one's property. So there were differences. Finally, if one feels called to a communal lifestyle, I'd say "Do it!" If not, be a good steward (END Theologica POST). This is probably somewhat off-topic for this/your thread, Joey. I know some folks feel we should "be like" the Early Acts Church, meeting in homes, and so on. As I wrote (above); those who *do* have or go to Houses Churches probably "share" (financially, food, and otherwise) as they did in Early Acts to varying degrees. This also happens in my church, the 7th largest United Methodist Church in the US -- where we have cell groups, House Churches, a food pantry, you can get a free car! and other. Thanks! Post Reply
rickc View Profile History	Home Church~Would like anyone's experience and info on this Posted : 1 Dec, 2009 06:30 PM One place should have read --- "Joseph, the *EARTHLY* father of Jesus"....sorry! Post Reply
View Profile History	Home Church~Would like anyone's experience and info on this Posted : 1 Dec, 2009 07:46 PM Thanks Rick, I am not looking to be celibate the rest of my life~: )~ but I do want to follow the model that God gave us in His word "don't forsake the fellowship of one and other." I am reading more about elders being a leadership over once called pastor which seems to be the problem with many churches. One man running the show and getting away with a lot of ungodly behavior. I am researching more on this to see how a home church is conducted and if it is fruitful. Your church sounds pretty good! Post Reply
rickc View Profile History	Home Church~Would like anyone's experience and info on this Posted : 1 Dec, 2009 08:40 PM Hi Joey! -- you wrote: Thanks Rick, I am not looking to be celibate the rest of my life~: )~ but I do want to follow the model that God gave us in His word "don't forsake the fellowship of one and other. I am reading more about elders being a leadership over once called pastor which seems to be the problem with many churches. One man running the show and getting away with a lot of ungodly behavior. I am researching more on this to see how a home church is conducted and if it is fruitful. Your church sounds pretty good!" Right, (you and I neither feel called to lifelong celibacy, is understood). Much of my last post was about how Essenes (both married and celibate) were "a LOT like the Early Acts Church." As far as "plurality of leadership" goes; I believe the Early Church "had" them, as opposed to one "senior pastor." There are several biblical passages I could cite to support this. I'm assuming you know what they are or are reading about them in books. An interesting historical note here is that, right about at the turn of the first century was when single bishops began taking control in congregations. (Btw, I see "bishops" and "elders" as being the same, without citing passages). If I'm not mistaken, this "one bishop running the show" was first seen with Ignatius or Clement of Rome, at around 110 AD. This centrality of "one man" stayed in the Church (in the Catholic priesthood), and on to this day, with "senior pastors." My church has a "senior pastor" but he doesn't "control things" as many do. He does what he's called to do: lead, preach, and teach (for the equipping of the saints to do works of service in & outside "church"). Though our church is HUGE, it incorporatres biblical teachings on spiritual gifts and/or "body ministry" (everyone doing/using their gifts for the benefit of all), etc. I think you may be interested in his book, "Spiritual Entrepreneurs" by (pastor) Mike Slaughter. My cousin, who functions somewhat like a "senior pastor" -- though his church has a plurality of other elders (including himself) -- has used this book in his church. More to the topic --- my House Church experience -- is limited (I've been to one two times). I found everyone friendly; there weren't a lot of people there. But also, when I mentioned I attend my (big) church; several of them were "put off" by this, saying they had had bad experiences in them. They basically "put down" what they called "organized religion." I didn't contest anything with them. However, I did observe that, whether they knew it or not --- they had become something like a "denomination" by singling themselves out, as over against "my church." I may go back to visit them some time. But their meetings last over three hours. Nothing against that, but it would go past my bed time! Thanks, Joey! Post Reply
View Profile History	Home Church~Would like anyone's experience and info on this Posted : 3 Dec, 2009 09:18 AM Local church autonomy is good. Because denominations control their churches from the Mother church or "Home" church back east. IMO, we are in a post denominational age. The non-denominational label suggests this. When asked what is your home church, most people say what church they identify with and attend regularly. And it may be a mega church or a small home bible study. What is called a home church today is really more like a home bible study and there is a danger of missing the checks and balances associated with a multitude of believers. :purpleangel: Dave Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	Home Church~Would like anyone's experience and info on this Posted : 3 Dec, 2009 12:02 PM The bible should be the leader in any church. It should be the standard for everything that comes before the congregation. Every member should be looking at their bibles, and if some error comes up...somebody is bound to catch it if they're all looking. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	Home Church~Would like anyone's experience and info on this Posted : 3 Dec, 2009 05:02 PM Hi Joey and Gents, great points from all. I do attend a non-denomination church and have become a member. I guess some would call it a Mega church buy its size. The reason I attend and chose to become a member is because it is Bible based, Old and New Testament. Straight out of the book. I began a home Bible study at my home a couple of months ago with the well blessings of the Pastor, Senor Pastors and members. My Pastor is very incouraging about (group) home Bible study. He calls it "Home Church". Where the flock studies the Bible in a Home. I'm not sure if this is what you are refering to or seeking info on or if will help you anyway. Just wanted to share....xo Post Reply
View Profile History	Home Church~Would like anyone's experience and info on this Posted : 3 Dec, 2009 07:34 PM joey, i'll point out two books. "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola and George Barna. And "The Open Church" by James Rutz. home churches are the original churches. Our definition of pastor has changed from what it was in scripture. The local church was supposed to be lead by a group of elders that were appointed from within the existing congregation. Not lead by one guy who went to seminary someone and then got hired to preach to the congregation. The only time you really see one guy leading the local church is when it is first started and no elders have been appointed or a church that is struggling. Missionaries usually went out in pairs spreading the gospel and planting churches and usually appointed elders before they left. Then either re-visited or sent other missionaries to help organize guide the younger churches. It was never the intention to have one permenant guy to continually feed the congregation spiritual milk. The goal was to equip the church to function on its own as a working body of Christ and at some point send out their own missionaries to repeat the process. the church didn't have nice big building like we do now. They met in each other's homes, fellowshipped together, had communion (which was a full meal of fellowship and not just a little cracker and a shot of grape juice). And they built each other up and each member contributed to the worship and the ministry 1 Corith. 14:6 The key concept is to understand that all believers are called to the ministry, not just a few people. Most people understand that theology in their head but don't actually live that out in their walk. They still see that line between clergy and lay people. As long as that mindset still exists, the church will continue to be spiritually lazy and see mostly superficial growth. but check out those two books especially Pagan Christianity. It will wake you up or make you mad or both. Post Reply
View Profile History	Home Church~Would like anyone's experience and info on this Posted : 5 Dec, 2009 08:43 PM It is funny that I should see this topic. I've been away for the last week or so, and while I was gone, I read a book that talks about this very thing! Weird how this kinda stuff works out. The book is called "So You Don't Want to go to Church Anymore". It is a fiction work, but brings forth some very thought provoking points. It was a great read, and I recommend it, Joey, if you're still interested in the "church". In Christ Garrett Post Reply