dear folks, there was a good question brought up once before about whether it is right for preachers to be called reverend so and so... it made me think and have to really do some studying on it..
first let me say that it is on my credentials.. but that i dont go around calling myself that or asking others to call me that.. thats not my thing. though when this was questioned i did make a childish gesture by using it one time as reverend ole cattle ..for that i am sorry for.. me im just ole cattle..
this negative thought was brought about by the use of the translation of the word reverend in pslams 111.9 as an adjective in the king james and one other bible i believe it was ..the rest are using terrible or awesome as the translation. even the new king james uses awesome instead..
the word reverend for a title is not found in scripture.
now i wanna say im not a hebrew expert ok ,, but this what i found so far..
In Ps 111:9(AV), it's descriptive (adjective) of God; the Hebrew "yare" means "to fear, be afraid, stand in awe of" ('awesome' is often used in English translations.
Latin Vulgate has "terribile" here, not "revere,
the AV could have used 'terrible' as it does in Ps 99:3 and elsewhere.
in the greek the same word terrible is used in both pslams 111.9 and in pslams 99.3 and not the word reverend..
so there ya go...
it is my belief that the word does not apply to us but rather in reference to our attitude toward God. I am not revered but rather am one who has exibited a deep reverence toward God and subsequently has offered my life to Him in reverence toward Him. That is why I gladly display the title. I am like a pet who gladly wears the colar of his master.
Your reverence shows and is admired greatly around here my friend!!!
Ladies a gents may I present to you a man who honors God and loves Jesus our Lord and Savior..."Brother Reverend Ole Cattle!!!" :applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:
dear jarr, love you too man..but please just call me ole cattle .. as i am just a man , one like you ,who does the best i can and does mess up at times..
only one man has earned the right to be called reverend. To call anyone else that is robbing God of his reverance.
there is no need to make such a distinction anyway.. the veil was torn in two and all Christians have a part in the priesthood of believers.
When Christ died, there was no longer a clergy and a laity. All are called to the ministry and Christians who have had formal relgious education are no more entitled to be called "reverend" than some teenager who slept through Sunday school.
the main leadership roles that you see decribed in the Bible are elders. The idea of pastor being the single head of local congregation is not even supported. The closest you have to that are apostles/missionaries, that were church planters. Their job wast to start churches or help struggling churches but ultimately leave the leadership in the hands of capable elders (plural).
By scriptural standards we should go by the title of brother or sister for beleivers.
hmmm...i may have strayed a bit from topic...passionate subject for me though
Mom and Dad were particular about us kids to giving respects to those as common courtesy or to who've earn 'em. failing to do so usually resulted with a sore red behind. to this day will still address people of authority and older folks as Sirs or Mams, Doctors as Dr. so&so even if they are younger than me now a days! lol
I did only mean it in a light hearted way and I do agree with you on your point. the only title I might have a sour feeling about is calling a priest Father, as Jesus did address that one.
dear jarr,,, my dear brother, no need to apologize to me for that... that was just for future references hehe... you dont know how much i appreciate you my friend. i love ya man.. no worries here..
Reverend, Pastor, Preacher, Father, Doctor, Sister, Reverend Mother, Monsignor, Bishop, Pope, and probably a host of many more that I have missed.
All of them apply to those of the cloth. Many of them I really don't like much at all, like Doctor. When I think of doctor, I think of someone trained to diagnose or prescribe in matters of my health. While I know Jesus was the Great Healer and the Ultimate Physician, I really don't think about going to my clergy with a case of planters warts, nor would I think of going to my family physician with a crisis in my faith.
I don't want to tick of any Catholics. I was raised one. But I have a little problem with calling anyone "Father" that isn't my Dad or Heavenly Creator. It has just never felt right to me.
But I do think titles are necessary and good, and I don't have trouble with Reverend necessarily for I think it is good to hold some with revere and high regard when they have gone through extensive seminary training. Whether we call them Reverend or Pastor or even just Preacher, I think such titles should definitely be reserved for those that have gone through and completed seminary training for it does speak to a level of knowledge and training that separates us.
I definitely hold your training Ole Cattle in high regard for you use it well and clarify many thing that come up here on the forums within the Word. That is training most of us do not have.
It is one thing to take what I say and have a high regard for it, but if someone like Ole Cattle says, "Hey wait a minute Tarasye, the Bible says its not that way", I would be the first to say, his training in the Word is far more extensive than my own, and I would likely be the first to say that his understanding if far more accurate.
I know some self taught people in the Word think they should be given the same regard. I don't expect the same regard, nor do I think anyone else should unless they have completed seminary.
Even then we as Christians need to be careful, for many are not actually teaching what they learned in seminary, but have decided to go off on their own direction that is not always Biblical.
Even though a title speaks to the level of training, and should also speak to the ability to give guidance in the Word, I think we all have opinions and knowledge in the Word that is good to share, but I think those who have completed a higher standard are somewhat like moderators, they are expected to use good judgment in the guiding of others.
At that Ole Cattle, I hold you in high regard for the wonderful guidance you give so many of us on this forum. I sincerely respect you, and admire you, and am grateful for that level of training and experience you bring to the forum and share with us all.
Everyone is equal in Christ's eyes, and everyone receives grace equally, but everyone in Christ's church is not equal in authority. Due to sin/rebellion, there needs to be men and women in good standing, that can counsel and lead God's church. Paul lines out the authority figures for the church. Elders and deacons, prophets and teachers. They are not equal, but they are all equally important...if that makes any sense. Everything is not equal. The gifts of the spirit are not all the same. The gift of prophecy is greater then the gift of tongues. Just like when Paul was talking about the body of Christ. The eye cannot say to the hand "I have no need of you", and the eye is not more deserving then the hand of being a part of the body...but the job it performs for the body is greater. Also the parable of the 3 servants. God did not give to every servant equally, and they were not expected to perform equally. While being an elder/pastor/whatever does not make you more deserving of salvation, it does make you more deserving of respect and authority. How solid is a church that lets newly baptized "baby" Christians lead the church? Not very solid...and that could account for our current lack of moral stability in churches.
