Author	Thread: Ethical Grey issues
Admin	Ethical Grey issues Posted : 20 Nov, 2009 06:15 AM The other day it was explained to me by one of my college professors that in the course of my spiritual journey I will inevitably be faced with what is called �Ethically grey issues�. These �issues� are, apparently, unaddressed subjects in Scripture and I will therefore be forced to concede that no judgment call can be made concerning them. The argument he presents is based upon the story of Rahab the harlot and how her deception gained her an honored place in the genealogy of Jesus Christ. My counter point to this is that there are NO ethical grey moments in the mind of God, furthermore, just because my finite mind cannot discern between lies and deception, killing and murder, the word of God is quick and powerful, it is sharp enough to divide asunder any matter, instantaneously, unequivocally, resolving any issue. Even if my mind cannot divide the issue in such a way as to be understood it is clear that Rahab was not a liar, she deceived an enemy, just as a man who kills to protect his children isn�t a murderer, just as a chess player who deceives his opponent isn�t guilty of baring false witness, and, just as God is not guilty of lies when he orders Gideon�s soldiers to give the illusion of numbers in his famous clay pot ploy. Isn�t it just like man to be suspicious of foul play when his clouded vision hinders him from clearly discerning a matter? Thank you for reading, rebuke and correction is welcome. Forgive me for rambling. Rightknight Post Reply
View Profile History	Ethical Grey issues Posted : 20 Nov, 2009 12:39 PM Right Knight, If you are going to "ramble" as you just did -- then I say "RAMBLE ON!" Very well put. Academians sometimes get so "smart" and full of "knowledge" -- that God's Word is shoved to the outer edges of theirConsciousness and they become frozen with "fear" of being corrected. My veiw is that Integrity is the Backbone upon which the Virtues attach themselves to, completing the framework on which The Holy Scriptures are draped to form the muscles and �meat� of your body; The Holy Spirit acting as your �conscience� and �moral compass�. The Heart of this body is Jesus, which through Faith in Him pumps His Grace throughout the body. The Mind is totally Surrendered and in God�s Divine Will � His Words are the �neurons� of your brain. Your �skin� which holds all this together, encompassing as if it were a Temple, is God�s Church and is �tanned� from being constantly in God�s presence. Your Five Senses are Love � which filters everything you see, hear, touch and taste or smell through the same Love God has shown you. And finally, your mouth is your instrument for use in edifying and ministering to others in humility and with patience. The community of Believers is the Mirror upon which you �check� your image and receive advice and correction if need be. A tough thing to be or to do on a consistent basis; I know I fail constantly. If you are made like this then any �ethically gray issues� will be correctly resolved. God�s Church is a �Living Breathing� Church. She is not static, She is dynamically able to keep up with the issues concerning Morals and Faith that man and science continually create. It is only from man�s need to exert his own �scholarly opinion�, do we have so much confusion and diverse thinking in the Christian Community. 1 Corinthians is filled with scripture that deals with the questions one should ask themselves in order to answer issues of ethics. Questions like: Those Scripture speak to this directly? What is my conscience (Spirit Filled � God Centered) saying about this? Can I become a slave to this? What are my Brothers and Sisters saying about this? Will this desecrate my body? Will it Honor God? Will this cause me to become a stumbling block to my Brothers and Sisters? Does this show or have Love in it? There are more questions that need to be asked, these are just a guide -- but ultimately it comes down to simply �What Would Jesus Do?� Peace Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition inspired, and success achieved. � Helen Keller Post Reply
View Profile History	Ethical Grey issues Posted : 20 Nov, 2009 01:04 PM Use the threefold test of 2 Tim 1:7, :purpleangel: �For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.� A sound mind is also common sense. Some people do the strangest things in the name of Christianity. And Yes, we need each other to speak common sense to. Dave Post Reply
Tarasye View Profile History	Ethical Grey issues Posted : 20 Nov, 2009 03:09 PM I do not feel you were "rambling" in the least, my friend, and I agree with you completely. If an intruder broke into my home, and I hid my grandchild in the closet to protect her, and the intruder asked if I was home alone, would I say, "Of course not, my grandchild is hiding in the closet!"? I would not consider it a lie to say that I was home alone, for even to say nothing might imply otherwise. Even when Christ was born, the Wisemen were told to return home by another route and not to retrace their way and inform Cesar of their discovery of the Christ child. Had Cesar's men encountered them along the way, would it have been the right thing to have told them of the child? If asked about the fruits of their journey, would it have been right to spill it and tell them? Are we to presume on their journey home that at no point were they met with situations that a discernment for caution was not presented? I am a firm believer in Honesty and Truth, but when harm presents itself in its most evil form, we are expected to protect the innocents under our charge in the best way we know how, for we are not like Almighty God, a thousand men will not fear to stand before us for the one individual we are. I hesitate not to say that this is not unlike the Hand of God unleashing the powers of the the Red Sea after His people had passed, but the enemy was not yet to safety. If you were in charge of the button that released the waters, would some not call it murder? In blinding the eyes so one cannot see, is that not a deception unlike a lie? What is the difference? Discernment. We are told to fear not, and that some day the lion will lay down with the lamb. But that day is not today. And today we do not walk knowingly into the den of a wild animal at the zoo, or the habitat of an exhibit where it might not be safe. Why? Discernment. Do we lie about what we had for lunch, or embellish what we did last week, or cover up indiscretions we know to be wrong? Of coarse not. Why? Discernment. With the Holy Spirit to guide us, we learn discernment. Those like your professor that believe these areas are gray lack discernment for we do not seek a God that is wavering or indecisive. We seek a God that is Holy and Righteous. I honestly believe gray areas are man's way of trying to justify a way they know to be wrong, like a reason to justify abortion or a reason to take retribution There will always be those that lack discernment and those that have it, as there will always be those that seek His Ways and those that seek their own path, and there in lays the only gray area found in our own ways, not the Ways of God. Tarasye Post Reply
View Profile History	Ethical Grey issues Posted : 20 Nov, 2009 03:32 PM I like the way you put it, RightKnight. Very well said. In Christ Garrett Post Reply
View Profile History	Ethical Grey issues Posted : 20 Nov, 2009 05:28 PM I had not considered the story of the wise men; I thank you for adding to my understanding and for all the gracious words of encouragement. I teach 2 Tim 1:7 to everyone I can, to hear it quoted and suggested to me is not coincidence, thank you again. RightKnight Post Reply
View Profile History	Ethical Grey issues Posted : 21 Nov, 2009 03:56 PM dear folks, ethical grey areas,,, aint that really just justification? hehe ole cattle Post Reply
Tarasye View Profile History	Ethical Grey issues Posted : 21 Nov, 2009 07:07 PM Amen Ole Cattle, they are the same ones that will tell you the Bible is outdated. The more the devil can soft sell and legalize abominations, the easier it is to mislead people into thinking these things are gray, unclear, and can take a spin in any direction we would like, but if we are Truly Saved, we accept guidance in the Holy Spirit and maybe that is why we are seen as rigid, and very black and white in our thinking. It truly is that justification of our own selfish ways that keeps even Christians bitterly fighting amongst themselves. There is nothing Gray about an Unchanging and Almighty God. Tarasye Post Reply
View Profile History	Ethical Grey issues Posted : 22 Nov, 2009 01:52 PM Hi Tarasye, I would hope that if someone broke into your home, that you would ...... 1)Realize that it is not the Fuller Brush salesman 2) That they mean you and your loved ones harm 3) While pointing your firearm at their chest, you can ask them if they know Jesus and if not then they should as they are about to meet Him sooner than they expected and then share the Gospel with them....time permitting of course....and then if they deny Christ...go to step # 4 4) Simply empty the magazine/clip into their chest and then call 911. 5) While waiting for the police, EMS and the coroner to arrive, you can take the time to clean your weapon. This reminds me a humorous story. A robber breaks into a home and begins to walk through the home. As he approached the kitchen in the dark, he hears a voice say "Jesus is watching you". So he stops waits a minute and then continues when all of a sudden the voice says again... "Jesus is watching you". Finally he gets to the kitchen and sees a Parrot. The robber asks the Parrot if that was him that was speaking and the Parrot replied "YES". The Robbers asked the Parrot "What's your name?". The Parrot replied "Alfred". The Robber said... "What idiot named you Alfred"?. The Parrot replied...."The same idiot that named the Rottweiler Jesus"... Get him Jesus". LOL Blessings! Walter Post Reply
View Profile History	Ethical Grey issues Posted : 22 Nov, 2009 01:59 PM HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! LITERALLY LAUGHING OUT LOUD!!! GOOD ONE WALTER!! Post Reply
Tarasye View Profile History	Ethical Grey issues Posted : 23 Nov, 2009 02:51 AM Walter I can appreciate that far more than you know. Working in corrections, I am not a certified field officer, so owning a gun is not a requirement. Unlike most people in law enforcement, I don't have a gun fetish and recognize that guns so very often hurt unintended victims. For twelve years I did have to certify, and would work towers from time to time, and I have no hesitation at the thought of stopping a criminal from escaping a maximum security facility, for if they would brave wall towers to get out, they are truly dangerous and would not hesitate to hurt or kill innocent people to stay out. With that in mind, I hope you enjoy this actual event in my life. When my daughter was going into fourth grade, she had been wanting a pet so badly, and I found and adorable little beagle puppy, which I picked up on Good Friday and later gave to her Easter Morning. Pup was eight weeks old at that time. This was mid April. Three and half months later at the beginning of August, my daughter's birthday came around and we had a nice party at home where she had friends over and later went to her Dad's to celebrate, and I was left home with the pup, now a delightful little guard dog named Daisy Mae. In the dead of the night, I think somewhere between 2-3 am, we were awakened by the sound that I can only compare to the sound of someone getting punched over and over. Well the obvious occurred to me, there must be someone in my house. Pup is right there beside me shaking out of fear and not daring even to growl, more less bark. In the deepest of my lower vocal cords, and I do have one heck of a range I might add, I mustered a very loud, quite intimidating "HEY!!!" Yet the noise continued, so I repeated my threat to no avail. After my third effort, and nothing changed, I was fully awake, and beginning to think more clearly and although I could hear this punching, there was not screaming or hollering, and it really didn't make much sense that two people would break into my house and then beat each other up, so I cautiously and silently get out of bed, and there is a loud CRASH and the sound of shattering glass. My vicious little guard dog urinates on the floor. I silently slip out to the front room to turn on the light and discover that my daughter's milar birthday balloons wound up in the ceiling fan where they were getting repeatedly beaten till all the violence knocked loose the light fixture globe which shattered when it hit the dining room table below. But to this day, I would prefer to have a phone in every room over a gun in the house where it could bring tragedy to my loved ones someday. Maybe I should have called 911, and I am certain if I would have heard any discernible human sounds, I would have immediately. Not sure my decisions are for everyone, but we do have one of the finest 911 centers in the nation (last I knew, we were number 2) which is something quite amazing, and a call of shots fired or burglary in progress, people in the house, would probably bring no less than six to eight patrol cars within the first 2-3 minutes. Wish I could say that is the worst I have been through, but that is one situation, I can look back on and chuckle at least. Daisy grew up and got braver, and these days she is an old girl that protects the house very well now. Sometimes too well as she nearly bit the cable guy once. But I protect her, she protects me, and God protects us both. I have found that in every situation I have ever been met with, my ability to communicate has been far more valuable than a firearm. I do believe firearms have their place, and sometimes they are a necessary use of force in our world, but for most of us a firearm will most likely escalate something to a level most people are neither prepared for or trained to handle. To this day I prefer a good dog and a telephone, but that's just me. I am not afraid to die. I have been close enough to that scenario to know its true as well. Brave is not about not being afraid, it is about facing your fear with the full armor of God's promise to be with you however it plays out. So Boldly Stand Brave with the Lord beside you, and even a vicious ceiling fan loaded with milar balloons cannot hurt you! And who says God doesn't have a sense of humor? Tarasye Post Reply