Author	Thread: FOLLOW THE LEADER!
Admin	FOLLOW THE LEADER! Posted : 28 Oct, 2009 03:10 PM It has been said it is eight times harder to unlearn error than to learn new truth,I know that many will not be able to accept this as truth,But every word is backed up by Holy Scripture,So I must add this to the heading, Read at your own risk,Otherwise you might learn something new,Something that mainstream Christinaty has missed, When Jesus called His disciples, He told them, "Follow me" (Matt.4:19). When He encountered Philip, the next day, He said to him as well, "Follow me" (John 1:43). Jesus tells each one of us, "Follow me." Where does He lead us? What kind of example does He set for us? We read in the gospel of Luke: "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as HIS custom was, HE went into the synagogue ON THE SABBATH DAY, and stood up for to read" (see Luke 4:16-21). Jesus observed the weekly Sabbath day. It was His "custom"! Therefore, we also ought to observe the Sabbath day, as we strive to "follow our leader," Jesus Christ! If our Leader tells us to follow Him, and then He leads us to the Sabbath day, and He observes it, how clear it is that we also should observe the Sabbath day, as He does! Jesus' Example Peter puts it even more plainly. He writes: "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an EXAMPLE, that ye should FOLLOW HIS STEPS: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: who, when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously" (I Pet.2:21-23). Not only was Jesus� custom to keep the Sabbath day, but we as Christians are commanded to FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE -- follow in His footsteps! The apostle John also comments on this principle. He wrote: "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is not in him. . . He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to WALK, EVEN AS HE WALKED" (I John 2:4-6). If we keep His commandments, and walk as He walked, then our walk also will take us to the Sabbath day, to observe it and honor it and keep it holy -- just as He did, setting us an example that we should follow Him, imitate His steps, and even imitate His "walk." Paul's Example Did the apostle Paul also observe the Sabbath day? Remember, he was the "apostle to the Gentiles." If anyone had a chance to tell the Gentiles the Sabbath was abolished, Paul did -- time and time again. But did he ever do so? What kind of example did Paul set? In the book of Acts, we read that Paul and his company with him, as they journeyed through Asia Minor and Europe, observed the Sabbath day in city after city. When they came to Antioch in Pisidia, they "went into the synagogue ON THE SABBATH DAY, and sat down" (Acts 13:14). Paul preached a sermon showing Jesus Christ is the Messiah, quoting from the Old Testament. Afterwards, we read, "the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached unto them the next Sabbath . . . And the next SABBATH DAY came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God" (v.42-44). Later, in Philippi, Paul and his company gathered at the usual SABBATH gathering place, to speak to certain women there about Jesus Christ. "And on the SABBATH we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made" (Acts 16:13). Later, in Thessalonica, "Paul, HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them [the Jewish people] and THREE SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the Scripture" (Acts 17:2). And in the cosmopolitan city of Corinth, Paul also did not deviate from his customary practice: "And he reasoned in the synagogue EVERY SABBATH, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks" (Acts 18:4). Notice that observing the Sabbath was Paul�s regular "customary practice." It was customary for him to observe the Sabbath, and to preach the true gospel of Christ at the synagogues on the sabbath day! In four different places in the book of Acts, we discover the apostle Paul -- the apostle who was sent to the Gentiles -- observing God�s holy Sabbath day! This was his regular custom. Are WE willing to follow the example of Paul? Paul set us an example, in keeping God�s Sabbath day, even as Christ set us an example. He observed the Sabbath, and he taught his listeners to observe it as well. Paul declared, in a letter to the Corinthian church, which had grown numerous over the years: "Be ye FOLLORS OF ME AS I AM OF CHRIST" (I Cor.11:1). Are WE willing to imitate Paul, and he imitated Christ? Are WE willing to observe God.s holy Sabbath day? Moffatt has this verse, "Copy me, as I copy Christ." The New International Version has this verse: "Follow my EXAMPLE, as I follow the EXAMPLE of Christ." Paul�s example was to keep the Sabbath. Jesus Christ, our Saviour, set the same example during His life on earth as a human being. Doers of the Law The apostle Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, stated in the book of Romans, "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the DOERS of the law shall be justified" (Rom.2:13). The Sabbath is part of the law of God. It is an eternal law. Therefore, if we merely "hear" it, but fail to observe it, we are NOT PLEASING in God�s sight. The apostle James puts it this way: "For whosoever shall keep the WHOLE LAW, and yet offend in one point" -- such as the point of the Sabbath -- "he is guilty of all" (Jas.2:10). James goes on, describing what law he is talking about -- the Ten Commandments, which includes the Sabbath commandment. He says, "For he that saith, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou are become a transgressor of the law" (Jas.2:11). Or, to put it another way, if you do not steal, but if you break the Sabbath day commandment, then you have broken one point of God�s Law, and you are guilty of breaking the whole thing -- the whole system of law -- and are designated as a "transgressor of the law"! Merely talking about the Sabbath, and saying it is a good thing, is not enough. We must be DOERS of the Law! As James said, "Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead, being alone" (Jas.2:17). Faith in Christ, in other words, without obedience, is dead -- worthless, useless, of no spiritual value, meaningless, empty, and vain. Again, James explains: ""But be ye DOERS of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any man be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and CONTINUINING THEREIN he being not a forgetful hearer, but a DOER of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed" (Jas.1:22-25). The Law Is Holy, Just, and Good What is the purpose of God�s Law, anyway? Why did God create the Sabbath? Of course, everything God made was "good" -- and that includes the Sabbath. God�s Law, too, is "good," according to the apostle Paul, who wrote: "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" (Rom.7:12). The Sabbath, we already saw in Genesis 2:1-3, is "holy" to God. It was made holy, or "sanctified," at creation. Here Paul says the entire Law of God is "holy," "just," or fair, equitable, and "good." There is nothing evil or bad about God�s Law -- or, for that matter, His Sabbath day. It is PERFECT! As David wrote, "The law of the LORD is PERFECT, converting the soul" (Psalm 19:7). Since the Sabbath is good, and part of God�s perfect Law, therefore it, too, must be PERFECT! And to keep it is pleasing to God our Father and Jesus Christ our Saviour and Redeemer. Post Reply
View Profile History	FOLLOW THE LEADER! Posted : 28 Oct, 2009 04:21 PM It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Gal. 5:1 A British naturalist who collected animals for zoos, Gerald Durrell, tells how he captured a number of African birds and small mammals.2 He kept them in cages for several weeks. Due to political turmoil, he could not export the animals to Britain and was forced to free them. He opened their cages to let them go. To his surprise, some refused to leave. They had become comfortable in their cages, nourished and sheltered from predators. He resorted to prodding them out with a stick but the moment he stopped, they went back in. Durrell was obliged to destroy the cages to prevent the animals from staying. They had lost their taste for freedom. So it is with some Christians. They prefer the secure confines of rules, only to miss out on a world of adventure. "Every man harbors a Pharisee in his heart," observed the radio preacher. I agree. Remnants of corruption remain as long as we live, and often generate legalism. Legalism is the assumption we get righteousness by following rules. Like the Galatians, some suppose we are justified by faith but sanctified by law. Paul protests, Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Gal. 3:30 The other day I wanted something. I thought to myself, "I've been good lately. God will probably give me what I ask." A moment later, I realized this thought was atrocious. I had fallen into the familiar trap of legalism, assuming God would reward me for my own righteousness. "You old Pharisee!," I thought. "You teach 2 grace and then assume God might bless you on the grounds of your own goodness." Why do we relapse into such snares? None of us escapes entirely the influence of our old nature. A subtle drive for autonomy and selfvalidation remains. Our old nature is ego-centered. This feeds legalism. Since God's law did not originate from the self, man feels the urge to supplement it. We develop new rules apart from those God gave. Urging others to comply is even better since it lends an illusion of authenticity. Our sinful nature considers religious practices acceptable as long as self is in control. The legalist misses the point: Self is the problem. Attempting righteousness by rules only strengthens our autonomy. This in turn leads to more sin. Are rules bad? No. However, rules can never produce righteousness. The Ten Commandments are still valid. We sin by breaking them, but they are powerless to make us righteous. Legalism does nothing to improve carnality. The proof is in the way legalists treat free people. Reformed legalism Every Christian movement has its unique brand of legalism. Since grace is the central theme, we would expect the reformed movement to be free of legalism. Some have avoided it. Others, considering themselves `truly reformed', have fallen headlong into it. This is a warning. Like a tree, all movements develop branches while maintaining core values. Some branches are fruitful, others sterile. Even within grace theology, legalism exists and some would rob us of our liberty. Why grace works and legalism does not Grace succeeds because it is based on a relationship with Christ. He is not only sufficient but also indispensable. He is not a supplement to our righteousness. He IS our righteousness. 3 Some fear the freedom of grace may lead to a disregard of the divine law. The opposite is true. We find ourselves following Christ more closely, who is always in accord with the divine law. Here's the biblical pattern: For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. Titus 2:11 First, grace brings salvation. We do not bring it to ourselves. What then? Does grace say, "I started you on the right path. The rest is up to you."? It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live selfcontrolled, upright and godly lives in this present age, V.12 Once grace brings salvation, it stays around and teaches us godly living. Any who imply that grace is freedom to sin, are calling licentiousness by the wrong name. When we grow in grace, we become more free yet less libertine. Grace allows us to relish our present acceptance with God, as opposed to the legalistic mere possibility of a future acceptance. Legalists suppose they have divine authority The legalist is convinced he is standing firmly on the authority of the divine law. Instead, he has one foot on the law and the other on the remnants of his own corrupt nature. This is slippery ground. Neither foot is planted on the imputed righteousness of Christ. The sins of pride, selfrighteousness and judgmentalism have foothold. Laws always produce more laws, not more righteousness. They multiply like germs in a Petri dish. This is why Jewish Rabbis, not content with Old Testament law, wrote the Talmud, a set of volumes expanding the law to the size of an encyclopedia. Legalists imagine they are mature Freedom is an ambiguous concept, tricky to define. Where does freedom end and license begin? Laws are concrete while principles are ethereal. Children require rules due to their undeveloped faculties. As they mature, they understand the principles. Paul alluded to this, 4 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. Galatians 3:24-25 (NKJV) We can remain children led by a tutor if we choose. Or we may be free, mature adults acting on principle. Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. Rom. 14:1 The legalist is a spiritual weakling. Like a straw man propped up by sticks, so the legalist props himself up by petty rules. Though he thinks he strong, he is going nowhere. Rules are like scaffolding for building a wall. Once the wall is built and can stand on its own, the scaffolding is no longer needed. Legalists assume strictness is holy Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. Colossians 2:20 Religious strictness usually makes things worse. Paul had been a strict Pharisee, so he knew the legalist mindset. Pharisees were detailed about laws. It was the one about murder they overlooked. More strict equals more sin. Why? Because the power of sin is the law3. It is the crutch on which the carnal nature leans to work at full capacity. God's risk You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. Galatians 5:13 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 1Peter 2:16 5 Free from what? From rule-based righteousness. Humanly speaking, God takes the risk that we might abuse our freedom to indulge the flesh. If this were not so, these warnings would not be in scripture. The warnings are proof of how just free we are. Should we fear we might abuse grace? That's like a doctor saying, "I'm giving you a prescription but be careful because it might make you forget you are sick." This is precisely what the prescription is intended to do. How does legalism enter the reformed camp? Some reformed teachers ignore an important principle of biblical interpretation: the New Testament interprets the Old, not vice versa. It happens due to a misuse of the idea of covenant. God made a covenant, a kind of agreement, with Abraham. This is the Christian covenant, sometimes called the covenant of grace. Galatians Chapter Three teaches this clearly. This covenant binds the Old and New Testaments together. Some reformed teachers take this concept further than the apostles intended. Launching from the idea of the unity of the testaments, they drag Old Testament law into Christian living. Such practice is like reading the Bible to the end, then like a rubber ball hitting a wall, bouncing back and getting stuck in Deuteronomy. Shadow-eaters The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming � not the realities themselves. Hebrews 10:1 Imagine a person trying to eat a shadow. Such a ludicrous sight must be how God views us when we fall into legalism. To some, the shadow seems so real, while the reality is ethereal. A lamb sacrifice seems concrete, the atonement of Christ ethereal. Shadows make poor nourishment. The Book of Hebrews is the New Testament's declaration about the Old Testament and how much of it applies to Christians. Which of these two propositions is correct? A. From the Old Testament, we accept into Christian living anything the New Testament does not prohibit. 6 B. We accept from the Old Testament only those things the New Testament says we must. The second proposition is correct. If the law is only a shadow, then it makes no sense to drag from it everything we can into Christian living. The Old Testament is what the New Testament says it is and no more. We have no authority to drag anything into Christian living from the Old Testament unless the New Testament requires it. If we do, we are attempting to feast on shadows rather than realities. This pattern of shadows versus realities is the underlying structure of the Book of Hebrews. Everything in the law is a shadow unless the New Testament says it is not. What aspects of the law does the New Testament authorize for Christians? A. The moral law as expressed in the 10 Commandments. 4 B. Examples of divine judgments so we may avoid evil. 1Cor. 10:6 C. A resource for worship. Eph. 5:19 D. The covenant of grace. Gal.3:1-14 That's about it. Some reformed teachers start with the wrong proposition and insert into the New Testament errors of emphasis we will study below. Several exist but we will touch on two prominent ones.5 STRICT SABBATTARIANISM Two views of the Sabbath prevail among reformed churches: Those who believe the Sabbath is a day, and those who believe it is not a day. The former, we may call sabbattarians, the latter non-sabbattarians. Sabbattarians believe Christ changed the Old Testament Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday by rising from the dead on the first day of the week. Since the only thing changed is the day, the original Old Testament injunctions against working or recreation on the Sabbath must be in force. The only works allowed are necessary social services, such as medical personnel or police. 6 Non-sabbattarians declare the Old Testament Sabbath was only a symbol pointing to faith-rest in Christ. The Sabbath, by this perspective, is not a day and was never meant to be. Sabbath observance therefore has no more inherent value than a lamb sacrifice. If we ask a non-sabbattarian if he keeps the Sabbath, he is likely to reply something like, "Yes, I keep it every day, because I trust in Christ every day." Both camps agree, however, that Christians should worship on Sunday because this is the day on which Christ rose from the dead. Regardless of one's position, our desire is to warn against any who would lead one into legalism by dictating what they can or cannot do on Sunday. Even among sabbattarians, opinions vary about what is permissible on Sunday. Some refrain from going to a restaurant because it obligates others to work. They eat at home. Instead of the waitress working, Momma does. Even if the food is prepared the day before, somebody puts it on the table and washes the dishes. I have two friends who practice this whom I do NOT consider legalists. Why not? Both declare they practice this is a matter of personal preference to honor the Lord, while respecting the consciences of those who do otherwise. This is not legalism. It is their form of worship. During my ordination exam, someone asked if I thought it was permissible to play ball on Sunday after church. I replied, "For you guys who have kids, this is what I recommend. After church, put your Bible away, take the kids to the park, play ball and count it is a work of mercy for your wife." To my delight, the assembly erupted in laughter and passed the question. What was the attitude of the apostles about this? Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Colossians 2:16 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Rom. 14:13 Paul declares we have a certain freedom of conscience with regard to how we celebrate the Lord's Day. We are free to celebrate according to our conscience. We are not free to judge one another.7 THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE 8 In Canada a few years ago, a controversy arose over a bizarre practice of hysterical laughter in some churches. It was called `holy laughter.' 8 The proponents of this movement defended it by the question, "Where in the Bible do you see it forbidden?" Others asked, "Where in the Bible do you see it commanded?" Which regulates Christian worship? Anything not forbidden or only what is commanded? Logically, it must be one or the other. The second option is biblical. God himself regulates worship by his word. We are not free to do whatever we please. We call this the regulative principle. In the Old Testament, we see worship regulated to the last detail. As we would expect, this principle is broadened in the New Testament. We see commands by the apostles to `sing songs, hymns and spiritual songs,' preach the word, administer ordinances and serve one another. That's about it. Rather broad, isn't it? We would expect this of apostles who celebrated a new freedom in Christ. The way some Reformed teachers treat the relationship between the Testaments reminds me of people who dislike the shape of a French horn. They take a hammer and laboriously straighten it out so the exit is as narrow as the mouth. Then they look up with a satisfied smile, pleased at the intensity of their labors and depth of wisdom about the correct shape of French Horns. Perhaps the tone of their horn sounds better to them. To me, it sounds hollow. Since the gospel is now for people of all cultures, we see the practicality of a broadening of the regulative principle. Cultures vary widely in music and expression of worship. Some reformed people are uncomfortable with the spirit of freedom in worship we see in the New Testament. As with other aspects of Christian life, freedom frightens them. So they question every practice, attempting to bind the conscience of Christians with details about worship. 9 One small denomination forbids the use of musical instruments. Part of the complex argument they use, is that musical instruments are not commanded in the New Testament. (Legalists need complicated arguments to justify their position. Freedom is simple.) True, we find no command in the New Testament to use musical instruments. What we find is the command to live as free men, within the broad limits the New Testament authorizes.9 Other issues? Christians have asked me, is tithing obligatory? Are alcoholic beverages in moderation a sin? Should we sing Psalms only? What about altar calls? Are academic degrees necessary to preach? If the reader has understood this chapter, he will already know the answers to such questions. Conclusion A friend said, "If you are not enjoying your freedom, then you need to talk to the Lord because you have a problem."10 If the Pharisee in our hearts has his way, he will bind us and that is no fun. Worse, he will use us to bind others. As long as we are in the flesh, we will be at war with him. Do not let him win. From this chapter we learn:  Legalism is the assumption we may obtain righteousness by following rules.  Legalism afflicts all Christian movements to some degree.  Legalism is based on the remnants of corruption remaining in Christians.  Being more strict is not necessarily being more holy. 10  The Old Testament is what the New Testament says it is, and no more.  We have no authority to drag into the New Testament anything from the Old Testament unless the New Testament says we may.  Legalism sometimes enters the reformed camp by interpreting the New Testament in the light of the Old Testament instead of the reverse.  In the New Testament, we have greater liberty in questions of worship and the Lord's day. Study Questions for Chapter 9 What is legalism? Why does legalism in some form, afflict all Christian movements? Why do we say that legalists are immature? What is an error of interpretation some reformed teachers may commit? Why do they fall into it? Which book of the Bible most thoroughly describes the relationship of the Christian to the Old Testament? Which of the two presuppositions below are correct, and why? A. Either we bring into Christian living from the Old Testament law anything the New Testament does not forbid, B. Or, we bring into Christian living only those things the New Testament says we may. What do we mean by our freedom in Christ? 11 In what way are we bound by the moral law, (the 10 Commandments) and in what way are we free from it? In what way have you been a legalist in your private Christian life and in your treatment of other believers? 1 This article has been reviewed by three ministers of the Presbyterian Church of America and found to be consistent with Westminster Standards. 2 Durrell, Gerald. Bafut Beagles. Viking Press, London, England. 1981 3 1Corinthians 15:56 4 The New Testament repeats these commands in various forms. The student is welcome to study this for himself. 5 Others are Psalmody: The notion that only Psalms should be sung in public worship, not hymns or choruses. Theonomy: The notion that Old Testament judicial law should be imposed on society and that Christians should work toward this. In Christ steve Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	FOLLOW THE LEADER! Posted : 28 Oct, 2009 07:24 PM Yup...My aunt was a luthren...she came into contact with the sabbath truth, studied it...and almost refused it solely on the notion that "billions of people go to church on sunday, they can't ALL be wrong". But shes a SDA now. The bible got through. I just don't understand it...there's no biblical proof for sunday, and the catholic church says that she changed it as a sign of her power. Seems really obvious to me... :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	FOLLOW THE LEADER! Posted : 28 Oct, 2009 08:35 PM The sabbath in mainstream Christianity is Sunday because that is the day of resurrection. Therefore, we celebrate--worship--fellowship on that day in celebration of the NEW covenant. The one in the death, resurrection, and ascension of our Lord Jesus Christ. Is it wrong to celebrate on Saturday?Of course not. Is it wrong to celebrate on Sunday? Of course not. What is important is that you observe a sabbath, a day of worship and fellowship with believers that your cup be filled anew to be a better servant in the kingdom of God for His sake and His will. Post Reply
View Profile History	FOLLOW THE LEADER! Posted : 29 Oct, 2009 05:29 AM 3. Is Sabbath versus Sunday the end-time deciding issue? - The New Testament never describes the Sabbath as the one great issue that will divide the true believers from the false believers. If the Sabbath was indeed such a profound issue, such a "life-or-death" matter of eternal consequence, then why did Jesus and the Apostles say nothing of its importance? Paul told Christians not to judge eachother regarding the keeping of the Sabbath (Col. 2:16) or any other day they decide to keep holy: One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. (Rom. 14:5 NIV) In the book of Romans Paul had the perfect opportunity to explain to the world the profound importance of keeping Saturday as a holy day. He could have let the early Christians know how important this day was to God and how critical it was that they keep it holy because their eternal safety depended upon the choice they made regarding the Sabbath. He could have said all that. But he did not. Why? Was it because God wanted us to figure out the most profound issue in Christianity on our own, without any help or guidance from His Word? Or was it because the writers of the Bible were uninspired and had no idea this would become an issue at the end of time? Of course not! It is absurd to think that such a critical decision--a decision upon which hinges the eternal destination of the Christian believer--would be met with silence in the New Testament. Every student knows that when a teacher has an important point to make to his students, he reiterates that point over and over again. Jesus and the Apostles were the greatest teachers this world has ever seen. The points they repeatedly emphasized were: Love Grace Forgiveness Mercy Doing good to others Faith Salvation Return of Christ Dangers of legalism These subjects are repeated over and over again in the New Testament. What about the necessity of keeping Sabbath as a holy day? It is never mentioned in the New Testament, not even once. And yet are we to believe this is the single-most important issue that is supposed to decide the fate of humanity? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. Adventist end-time theology all boils down to this: Those who keep Sabbath go to heaven, and the rest get burned in hell fire. This is a species of legalism. It makes the Sabbath, instead of grace or salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, the most important end-time issue. It takes the focus off of Jesus and puts the focus on works of the flesh. Any Christian can tell you that what day you go to church on does not make you a Christian in any way, shape, or form. A man may go to church on Saturday, but his heart may be filled with hatred, adultery, and every kind of evil. Another man may go to church on Sunday but his heart may be filled with love, kindness, faith, and the grace of God. The external act of keeping a day holy is not a "sign" or "mark" of true Christianity. The "sign" of true Christianity is having Jesus in your heart and loving others: In Christ steve Post Reply
View Profile History	FOLLOW THE LEADER! Posted : 29 Oct, 2009 05:30 AM Exodus 31:16-17 (KJV) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. [17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. At what point did we reach "for ever"? When did we run out of time? The sabbath is a sign of the Mosaic covenant. Can I get an Amen? :dancingp: Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	FOLLOW THE LEADER! Posted : 29 Oct, 2009 09:21 AM Well dudes....go ahead and worship on whatever sabbath you want. I still think we should be worshiping on God's sabbath... not yours....not mine....God's Sabbath. The sabbath is NOT the sign in the last days. IT IS NOT THE SIGN. The sign is keeping ALL the commandments. ALL of them. Not 8....not 9....ALL 10. But because most churches do keep all the commandments but one...the 4th commandment will be a distinguishing factor at the end. It is the one everyone forgets. If Catholics suddenly decided to keep Saturday instead of Sunday, they would still not be part of the remnant at the end. They have to keep ALL the commandments. No idols! And I'm not talking about now. Now it's all good. Everyone in every church that truly believes the light they have will be saved. What I mean by that is they will be living a pattern of true submission to God, even if they don't know what they are doing is wrong. If God would point out their error, they would change. It's an attitude we all should be living with. But at the end God will shake His people out of confusion(meaning they were in confusion at one point), into a remnant church that does not exist yet. At the end, He will make His will clear to His believers and the ones that do not change will not be in heaven. They will choose to continue in unbelief and they will be cut off. It makes perfect sense to me. And the only reason my church "focuses" the most on this one thing...is because we believe SO MANY have been deceived. Sure you're fine now...the test is at the end. But don't you want to be ready for it? :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	FOLLOW THE LEADER! Posted : 29 Oct, 2009 02:11 PM Nope you are just young and taught wrong by a very convincing church,and Im hoping someday you see the truth,but its not up to me,The true gospel is not keeping some code or secret set of rules,or any rules(see pharisees)it is about christs work on the cross and our beleiving in him.dying to self,and taking on the rightousness of christ.The more you try to please god by following rules alone,the more you will realize,this is not the truth of Christ.thousands of people leave that "church"every year when they realize they bought in to a fallacy.i will pray for you. In Christ steve Post Reply
View Profile History	FOLLOW THE LEADER! Posted : 29 Oct, 2009 06:17 PM A true believer in christ wants to follow the law to be a good witness.Where each person comes from they put importance in a different area.Are back grounds leave us in a place where god works out a plan for us.My plan of salvation will be different from yours. Example- If someone drank alcohol they may never be able to drink again.So,do we who never had a problem with alcohol drink beer in front of him who has such a weakness.Surely NOT. That is sin if you do.To attack someone with insuts when you 1st meet them is also sin.You are no better than the rest of us. Quating bible verses doesn't make you any more holier than me. For you who ran that guy of SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!! That was not nice. Did you not read the red letters- NO INSULTS!!!!! Have FUN!!!! None of us are perfect- SO come down off your cross. Amen:stop::prayingf::prayingm: Post Reply
View Profile History	FOLLOW THE LEADER! Posted : 29 Oct, 2009 09:03 PM Before Jesus(The New Covenant) came there was the Old Covenant between God and the people of Isrea. Once Jesus came some laws and practices and disciplines were changed. The Truths did not change -- they never will, yet some things did change. Now, through who's authority were these changes made? They were made by the Church thru it's High Priest Jesus Christ -- the Head of His Church. The Sabbath is Saturday and will always be Saturday -- Catholics (and All Christians) who know their faith will tell you that. The Early Church through the authority given to it and it's Vicar from Christ Himself decided to change the day of worship to Sunday (for the day of Our Lords Resurrection). The Church had full authority to do this and it did. For 100's of years there was no mass out cry of BLASPHEMY! until recently. Who are we to believe -- the Early Church Fathers who learned the Faith from either The Apostles themselves or from someone once or twice removed or from someone who decided to form their own church 1000 or more years later? Satan can qoute Scripture better than any man or woman on earth! Read what the Early Church wrote. Listen to what The Doctors of the Church said -- they knew the truth -- they had the Full Deposit Of Faith! Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	FOLLOW THE LEADER! Posted : 30 Oct, 2009 09:17 AM Which early church fathers....the apostles or the early popes? :peace::peace: Post Reply