Author	Thread: God's sovereignty and free will are both in the bible
Streetevangelist520^ View Profile History	God's sovereignty and free will are both in the bible Posted : 30 Apr, 2023 11:27 AM I am going to start a discussion on God's sovereignty and free will. This balance is demonstrated in the bible. You can't have one without the other. Genesis 1 through 3 lay the groundwork for all this and is mentioned throughout the entire bible. We can't play God yet go against people's free will, both have disastrous results and he will not force us to have a relationship with jesus, forcing things on others comes purely from the devil. Genesis 1:1-2 says: "In the beginning God created the heavens and earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." These two verses illustrate and in verses up to 2:14 illustrate these important points: 1.God has always been there from the beginning Post Reply
Streetevangelist520^ View Profile History	God's sovereignty and free will are both in the bible Posted : 30 Apr, 2023 12:00 PM 2.God is in control of all his creation. Genesis 2:15-17 demonstrates that God gave all free will and we cannot make people's minds up for them whether they want a relationship with Jesus or not. We can share and demonstrate the gospel, but we have got to let the holy spirit do his work of convicting them and ask others if they want to recieve christ as their personal LORD, Savior and friend. Forcing anything on anyone only causes them to rebel. Thank god for free will. I have learned the hard way that if you force things on others you play right into the devil's hands. And if you try to play God, the same result. I pray that this teaching will be a blessing to you all in jesus name. Post Reply
homelesschristian View Profile History	God's sovereignty and free will are both in the bible Posted : 30 Apr, 2023 02:26 PM 😉👍💯🕊️ well right you are a street we cannot force the good news of Jesus Christ on anybody otherwise It could wind up in a false conversion too Yet by the way of our own limited free will Joshua 24:15 choose this day whom you will serve 👉👉 the most important life-choice anyone will ever make is their response to this fundamental question, "choose today, Who you are going to serve." God or Satan, the spirit or the flesh, light or darkness, life or death, faith or fear, the truth or the lie... for its answer has both temporal considerations and eternal consequences Belief in the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ on Calvary's tree dictates life or death for the sinner. But for the man saved by grace, this foundational question deserves equally rigorous examination. This choice challenges the believer to examine himself to see if he is in the faith and trusting God - to see if he is walking in spirit and in truth and if Christ is all in all "Choose you this day whom you will serve," was a question that the aging Joshua was constrained to ask the Israelites in his farewell speech. He had just reminded the assembled company of the history of the nation Post Reply
Streetevangelist520^ View Profile History	God's sovereignty and free will are both in the bible Posted : 1 May, 2023 03:38 PM Amen to that homelesschristian. Thanks for your post. Post Reply
NarnianGirl View Profile History	God's sovereignty and free will are both in the bible Posted : 1 May, 2023 03:44 PM Haha brother, get ready for some heated discussions.. at least, that is my experience on most Christian groups / forums. As an Arminian myself I am familiar with both arguments and the Scriptures used to back them up. I feel that those preaching predestination (only) really miss the mark and often don't even follow their logic. Asking them often gets them just angry, so I have given up trying to have a discussion or a debate on something that has been debated for centuries. For those interested: a great example of a civil, respectful debate, check out the video with Dr. Michael Brown and Dr. James White. They are brothers in Christ, who disagree on this, and are still able to maintain good brotherly relationship.. Post Reply
Streetevangelist520^ View Profile History	God's sovereignty and free will are both in the bible Posted : 1 May, 2023 04:16 PM Which brings me to this conclusion: the middle ground of biblical balance is very important as demonstrated by mart de haan of rbc ministries from a pamphlet called "studies in contrast". God chooses us first through the preaching of the gospel but yet we need to make the decision for ourselves. Both sides are right because both are demonstrated in the bible. Having a biblical balance in all manners keeps us from going to the extremes that the devil wants us to fall into regarding anything. Falling into ditches only plays into the devil's hands. We cannot play God yet we cannot go against people's free will. Post Reply
homelesschristian View Profile History	God's sovereignty and free will are both in the bible Posted : 1 May, 2023 04:33 PM 🤔🕵️‍♂️ thank you for the compliment brother all glory to God To be honest with you I find Calvinism useless and here's why The point which causes some to believe that evangelism isn’t important is that of "limited atonement." This point of Calvinism teaches that Christ died only for the elect so if that's the case why even bother with the great commission matthew 28:19 v❓❓ some may say, "Christ paid for the sins of everyone but it’s up to each person to decide for and accept Him." That’s the whole issue between Calvinism (monergism) and Arminianism (synergism). And of course ultimately it's Romans 10:9 and 10 the qualifier if again if you confess your sins to Jesus Christ and believe he died and rose again on the third day you will be saved this cannot happen if we are mindless automatons 😉 Post Reply
Streetevangelist520^ View Profile History	God's sovereignty and free will are both in the bible Posted : 1 May, 2023 04:44 PM I agree with you completely. Amen to that. Post Reply
NarnianGirl View Profile History	God's sovereignty and free will are both in the bible Posted : 1 May, 2023 06:15 PM Thanks for your post, homelesschristian... That passage on Joshua is exactly the one that Calvinism likes to explain away, by saying that God already had chosen the Nation of Israel (which, of course, is true), so there wasn't any choice to be made anymore.. Which is completely illogical. The same is seen in many NT passages, where apostles pleaded and warned people to make the right choice, to follow God, to abstain from sin, etc etc.. ... and on and on.. of course, we were never meant to do that without the Holy Spirit and God's enabling grace & power.. ... I know many Calvinists are fervent evanglists, and not passive about it. Still, they tend to explain any tragedy, or difficulty by 'God's sovereignty', when often it was human free will that contributed. Post Reply
homelesschristian View Profile History	God's sovereignty and free will are both in the bible Posted : 1 May, 2023 08:32 PM 🙂👍💯 well you're very welcome Narnian girl all glory to God ❗❗ 🤔🕵️‍♂️ In Christianity, the doctrine that God unilaterally predestines some persons to heaven and some to hell originated with Augustine of Hippo during the Pelagian controversy in 412 AD 🤔🕵️‍♂️ so how did the early church tiptoe through the tiny Tim TULIP prior to 412 ad ❓❓ Well perhaps calvinists should consider another " perfect flower " affectionately known as the 🌹 rose of sharon whose door for salvation is open 24/7 because he Jesus Christ doesn't want any to perish the 2 Peter 3:9 😉🙏🙏🕊️ Post Reply
LittleDavid View Profile History	God's sovereignty and free will are both in the bible Posted : 2 May, 2023 12:00 PM Great discussion everyone. Keep going‼️‼️ You’re right NG, discussion need not become heated and I appreciate your mentioning the James White and Micheal Brown debate, excellent example of discussion civility Thanks for bringing the discussion to the forum StreetPreacher, great comments too. You’re right—both God’s sovereignty and man’s choice are clearly taught in the Bible. HomelessChristian, good points as well. There are several brands of Calvinists and some Calvinists have stayed from the original teachings of John Calvin. And you’re also right, some Calvinists erringly neglect the great commission and command of God in evangelism and other things taught by the original Calvin. Evangelism is clearly taught in scripture as a means of proclaiming the gospel. Faith comes by hearing. Looking forward to more great comments on this topic thread Post Reply

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