This actually started in another thread but it is an interesting and challenging topic. I have said many times that I want the truth at all costs because I know it will grow me up. Godly rebuke has saved me many times from deception but how do we know when it is Godly?
In forums like these as well as in everyday life, it is hard and sometimes turns to flaming and insults.
Here are some questions for those who want to learn and grow a bit more in Christ. :applause:
Up to this point in your life, how have you usually responded when you have been rebuked by parents, teachers, employers, spouses, spiritual leaders, etc.? What has been healthy about your response? What has been unhealthy?
Great questions JJ and great thread,this gets to the heart of the point behind everything.We Are here to learn,How to love,How to Listen to god and not be rebellious,and most importantly,that this is GODS WORLD,not ours,and its not ABOUT US,obediance,and love
everything in life comes back to these lessons in the end.
Hi Joey, your subject, "How Teachable Are You?" is an excellent and though provoking question.
I'd like to give you my two cents worth and see what your answer is or for that matter what anyone else's answer would be.
I believe our ability to be teachable depends on where we place our faith. Some people focus their faith on a denomination or preacher to know the scriptures for them and they never bother to look things up and compare scripture with scripture to see if what they are taught is really God's word or not. If a person is unsaved they will not have God's spirit to teach them, they can only use their natural mind and God says our natural mind is carnal and the carnal mind is in enmity with God and can not know him.
Romans 8:7 �Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 �So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 �But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
I find most people base their faith on what they choose rather then allowing God to show them even after they are saved.
I'll give you an example and a very controversial one. Most people think the great commission found in Matthew 28:19-20 applies to the church and for today.
There are several reasons why from scripture this commandment is not for believers today.
One: This command was given to the 11 Apostles. The Apostles represented the 11 tribes of Israel and not the church. Paul was made an apostle first to the Jews, and then to the Gentiles. The church that is Christ's body was revealed to Paul and his commission was brining the good news of salvation first to the Jews then in Acts 10 the Gentiles were included. In Act chapter15 the Jews learn the gentile is not under the burden of the law with its ordinances and they were only required four things. {Acts 15:20 �But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.} It would be a good idea to read the whole chapter. Also Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14-17. The book of Hebrews is devoted in showing the Jews they were free of the law and were under grace the same as the Gentiles.
It states,
Matthew 28:19 �Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 �Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Proof that this commission was fulfilled by Paul and the other 11 Apostles.
Colossians 1:23 �If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Please notices in the above verse its says preached to every creature.
More proof is found in Mark 17 we find an even more complete account of this commission that everyone ignores because it doesn't fit with the rest of the commission doctrine taught in denominations.
Mark 16:15 �And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 �He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 �And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 �They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
This account gives a far more complete picture not only of the commission but of the type of baptism being done in the commission.
The only baptism Christ baptizes anyone even back then with was with spirit baptism, not water. Even John the baptist knew his water was worthless in regards to salvation. For he said:
Matthew 3:11 �I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Please notice in Christ ministry in presenting Himself as the promised Messiah the Lord not once ever water baptized any one with water. For John's water was a baptism of repentance not for salvation.
So in verse Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
The Lord mentioned both baptism, he that believes will receive the Holy Spirit and is saved. He that believes not is damed {or will be baptized with fire}. One other thought I should interject here is that when Christ was doing his ministry and when it mentions baptism more then likely it was spirit baptism unless it pacifically states water. Because water never saved anyone and back then most all believing Jews had already received John's water baptism. Why would they need it a second time?
More proof for believing and being saved. John 3:36, John 3:15, John 6:47, Romans 1:15, Romans 4:5 1John 1:5,
I picked the above verses at random to show that water has nothing to do with salvation. Not once is water mentioned.
Here is one verse worthy of notice.
1 John 5:10 ��He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. �
It sums up to we believe and God does all the giving.
My last final proof that the commission is not for the church for today.
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
The signs have been done away with and that is more of God's proof to show the commission has been completed. If anyone thinks this is not true, try drinking some anti-freeze. I guarantee you will die a very unpleasant death. Or if you get bit by a venomous snake and without treatment you will die.
Other then the showman in tents who heals invisible ailments you will never see someone lay the hands on someone and make them a new arm or leg or give them their sight or cure leprosy.
Cattleman~~Glad you are challenged~:glow:~ I always enjoy your input here.
ManofGod~~You are right~ everything goes back to how teachable we are. I watched a Jim Jones documentary the other day and even though I remember it well and saw it years ago~It mad me sad that 900 people could be led astray that bad. If you get off the mark a little? It will take you farther than you ever planned to go and they had scoffed at many of their friends and relatives that tried to warn them~~wow~~
Tom~~I agree that carnality is the root of all error~~I read a book called "The Art of Self Deception" and it opened my eyes to how much human nature is sinful and prideful. I used to get very defensive when corrected as a young Christian but the school of hard knocks slowly killed "me" and still is~~ :glow:
Much of what is preached in today's churches is post modernism that mentions nothing or very little about the Cross and self denial. Our focus is to be Christ and His Cross and not on self 24-7.
On the other ideas you posted~~these are secondary issues~probably for ANOTHER THREAD~~ but I do not agree with you that all those things are done away with~~I can name a few instances of supernatural happenings in my 37 year "failing forward"~ walk with the Lord and truly believe that we need the power more than ever in these last days. Joel 2:28
http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=8204
I will say that most of what we see on T.V. and in church is a "hype circus" that has ruined much of the way people view Christians and we should never try to handle snakes or drink poison just to show off~~foolish!~~But there are multitudes of missionaries around the world that are witnessing supernatural acts of God more so as we see the time of Christ's return.
My daughter took a big bite out of a very poisonous plant as a toddler and I instantly declared the word over her "and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them. Mark 16:18~~she never got sick or had any symptoms at all~now I did call the poison control after praying and they told me that there would be immediate swelling of her throat but nothing happened to her.
My brother's dog was shot and bleeding and we layed hands on the dog and witnessed the bleeding stop~~my ex husband who was not a believer at the time~had popping sensation and complete healing in his wrist after a godly woman prayed for him~~our fuel tank was empty for 5 days and yet our house stayed warm during that time until we got enough money to fill it~~and most of all?~~His love is healing my wounded heart and transforming me into a different person.
Matt. 24:14~And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. :applause:
Hmmm... where to start? lol. I guess I'll answer the original post first.
A lot of times when I am rebuked, whether it be by teachers, family, even complete strangers, I take a step back and consider everything that I have been told. I love and respect my parents very much, but I don't always agree with their thought processes. Sometimes, though, they have very good points. This is why I step back to get a clearer view of what was said. Next, I try to line it up with what scripture says and with what I believe to be the character of Christ. One of the negatives that I have come across is people thinking that I am close minded when I disagree with them. I don't consider it close mindedness if I honestly consider their thoughts.
Now to TomLane: (by the way, I know a guy named Tom Lane. He's a worship leader. Kinda funny)
I'm going to have to agree with joey in that I don't believe the Great Commission is already finished. You stated that in Colossians 1:23 Paul had fulfilled the Great Commission. I went back and looked at the verses before and after that verse. This is what I understood it to mean.
We were once alienated from God (our evil behaviors and our sinful minds). Then, Christ came and reconciled us through His death on the cross.This made us holy in God's sight, free from accusation if we continue in our faith, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven. Paul had become a servant to this gospel.
This verse was talking about the gospel. The testimony of Jesus. Not the Great Commission. You then go on to use Mark 16:15-18 as even more proof. Basically, since we don't see these types of miracles occuring in modern times, then the Great Commission must be finished. I'm going to have to agree with Joey that these types of miracles still exist in our midst. Verses 17-18 say, "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
Drive out demons: When someone living an evil lifestyle comes to know Christ with the aid of another believer, a demon was casted out. Our minds were "transformed" according to Romans 12:2. We stop producing bad fruits and begin to produce good ones. Jesus himself says that a bad tree can't produce good fruits and vice-versa. This means that we undergo a complete transformation that isn't visible on the outside. It is on the inside.
Speak in new tongues: The book of James has a lot of really great wisdom relating to the tongue. In fact, when James refers to the tongue, he is usually referring to speech. To speak in a new tongue also refers to a transformation. We used to spit out whatever was inside our hearts, which were evil. Now we use our tongues wisely and keep them tame. Transformation. A new tongue.
Pick up snakes with hands: Serpents are used all throughout the Bible to refer to evil, whether it be satan directly, or an evil person. I honestly don't believe that Christ wanted us to spread the Good News by literally picking up snakes with our bare hands. That's the Crocodile Hunter's job. :laugh: We are supposed to take action and move others either towards Christ or out of others' ways so that they can know the Good News.
Deadly poison: This is saying that God will protect those dedicated to proclaiming the gospel to the world. It isn't supposed to be a circus stunt we can boast about. We are called to become humble.
Healing the sick: The power of prayer is amazing. Laying hands... a form of prayer.
Am I going to drink anti-freeze to prove my point. No. Jesus was tempted by Satan to throw himself off of the highest point in the temple to prove that he was the Son of God. This is very similar to your anti-freeze request. Jesus quoted Deut. and said "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." I hope that this helps. Thank you for your views. It's really nice for people to challenge each other. It is what develops our spiritual strength. Peace to you brother!
