Author	Thread: A Church-Carnal and Fallen Away
Ohiograce^ View Profile History	A Church-Carnal and Fallen Away Posted : 29 May, 2022 12:20 PM II Timothy 1:15 You know this, that all those in Asia turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.  As Paul writes from prison in his last year, he said that all those in Asia (a province in modern day Turkey) had fallen away from him. Does that mean that the methods that Paul and Timothy used were to blame? Of course not. There are sinful people in every church, whether it is a small home group, an independent or some institutional or denominational church. I Corith. 3:1 and I, brothers and sisters, I could not speak to you as to spiritual ones, but as to carnal (fleshly), as to babies in Christ.  2 I fed you with milk, not with solid food; for you were not yet able to bear it: but not even now are you able.  3 for you are yet carnal (fleshly): for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife and divisions, are you not carnal (fleshly), and do you not walk (live) according to human standards? Was Paul a failure because the Corinthian church lived in error and permitted sin among its members? Divisions and denominations existed in Corinth. Paul rebuked them for it. This sin is a mark of carnality and living according to the flesh. This has been the mark of the church for the last 2000 years. Big churches and little churches are all guilty. We have divided from other Christians over every thing. When Paul wrote to the saints at Corinth, he wrote "to the church/assembly of God which is in Corinth." Paul called them to unity by this very statement. He addressed all the saints at Corinth as one assembly. He spoke to the Thessalonians in the same manner. he wrote "to the assembly of the Thessalonians." He doesn't address the saints at Philippi as an assembly. But he tells them "that you stand firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel (Phil. 1:27)." He continues with the same idea, " 2:2  Fulfil my joy, that you think the same thing having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind." The Roman Catholic church followed the Roman Empire mentality-control and authority equal oneness. The reformers did the same thing. The only difference was they couldn't control as wide a geographical area. They established state churches. Methodology doesn't contribute to error. Wrong teaching/error leads to wrong methods. Those who promote little churches or house churches are just as prone to error and sin as institutional churches because they both are composed of sinful people. Post Reply
Moonlight7 View Profile History	A Church-Carnal and Fallen Away Posted : 29 May, 2022 02:15 PM Gathering with small groups in a house doesn't make people more a follower of Yahweh. They could be under false teaching there as too many are ! Post Reply
Moonlight7 View Profile History	A Church-Carnal and Fallen Away Posted : 29 May, 2022 02:17 PM https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/jesus-christ-is-yahweh Post Reply
Ohiograce^ View Profile History	A Church-Carnal and Fallen Away Posted : 30 May, 2022 08:10 AM Sometimes we as believers hear somethings that we haven't heard before. That can scare us, depending on how serious we think the issue is. For instance, if we believe that water baptism is essential to salvation and someone tries to show us the truth about rituals and ceremonies, that can feel like having the rug pulled out from under us. If you think of a house, that would be like having the foundation destroyed. Regarding the post from the internet, I want to focus on one thing that the author said. "The popular view today, however, is that the Holy Spirit teaches believers directly through the Bible." The broader context is that the author is talking down to and against the above quoted viewpoint. He is promoting professionalism and institutionalism, an educated clergy. He is speaking against those who promote smaller churches and house churches. He actually said those concepts were the source of error. He isn't Roman catholic but he promotes the similar idea of a higher educated class who can tell other christians what to believe. That is the context of the above quote. The Holy Spirit teaching through the Word isn't enough. God does use other believers to teach us. But in the end, the Holy Spirit teaches us through the Word. 1Cor. 14:26 What is it then, brothers and sisters? whenever you come together, each of you has a song, a teaching, a language, a revelation, an interpretation. Let all things be done to build up.... 29 And let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. (Note that when others speak, others have the right to judge, and that means right then and there publicly. It also means that the prophets aren't to hog the time, two or three at the most). 30 But if there is a revelation to another sitting there, let the first be silent. (in other words, say whatever you have to say but don't hog the time, let the others have the opportunity to speak). 31 For you all are able to prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all be encouraged. (he uses the word "all" and one by one or each one, Romans 12:5; all have the Holy Spirit and have been gifted in some way, verse 26, so they can function in the meeting so that all can learn and all can be encouraged.) Why is this scary to people? Some people like to have the control and authority in their hands. Some people actually believe this passage doesn't apply anymore. Post Reply
Ohiograce^ View Profile History	A Church-Carnal and Fallen Away Posted : 30 May, 2022 08:14 AM For others, it is their way of making a living that is threatened. In the end, it is fear of something. Some people think God needs our help to control things and get believers to do things. Then why do we have the Holy Spirit? oops, I forgot, the Holy Spirit and the Word aren't enough, so they say. Post Reply
Quiznos View Profile History	A Church-Carnal and Fallen Away Posted : 30 May, 2022 08:27 AM @ohio Ohio, i agree with what you have said, if the Word of GOD Almighty, and the author of that word are not sufficient gor a believer to know Messiah, who He is, what He is like, and what He says about us, then why did Paul say that he counting everyrhing but 'DUNG, DO DO' even his education was dung. Most people called 'pastor' act like the people actually need them, and are dependant upon them to be fed, nourished, and to grow in grace and the knowledge of Messiah. Personally, i know the Holy Spirit uses others to speak with me, even correct me, but i do not depend upon that, but rather that He corrects with Himself with the Word of GOD Almighty. Post Reply
Ohiograce^ View Profile History	A Church-Carnal and Fallen Away Posted : 30 May, 2022 08:47 AM Amen, Quiznos! Post Reply
Moonlight7 View Profile History	A Church-Carnal and Fallen Away Posted : 31 May, 2022 04:29 AM Find a church that teaches the Message to if the Cross! Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Oftentimes men judge all churches and pastors which is ridiculously naive . Seek Jesus for enlightenment!! Holy Spirit works through some pastors, teachers, evangelist, others! Post Reply
Moonlight7 View Profile History	A Church-Carnal and Fallen Away Posted : 31 May, 2022 04:30 AM " Message of the Cross" Corrected Post Reply