There are several lines of biblical evidence for the historic Christian doctrine that we are all born into the world with sinful natures, due to the sin of Adam.
Scripture says that we are born sinners and that we are by nature sinners
Psalm 51:5 states that we all come into the world as sinners: "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me." Ephesians 2:2 says that all people who are not in Christ are "sons of disobedience." Ephesians 2:3 also establishes this, saying that we are all "by nature children of wrath." If we are all "by nature children of wrath," it can only be because we are all by nature sinners--for God does not direct His wrath towards those who are not guilty. God did not create the human race sinful, but upright. But we fell into sin and became sinful due to the sin of Adam.
Scripture speaks of humans as unrighteous from infancy
There are also verses which declare that we are all unrighteous from the time that we are born. Proverbs 22:15 says "Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child." Genesis 8:21 declares, "...the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth." Jonathon Edwards, in his classic work The Great Christian Doctrine of Original Sin Defended, remarks that on this verse: "The word translated youth, signifies the whole of the former part of the age of man, which commences from the beginning of life. The word in its derivation, has reference to the birth or beginning of existence...so that the word here translated youth, comprehends not only what we in English most commonly call the time of youth, but also childhood and infancy."
Humanity is Often Described in General Terms as Unrighteous
Unrighteousness is often spoken of in Scripture as something belonging to the human race as a whole.This implies that it is the property of our species. In other words, sinfulness is considered a property of human nature after the fall. Thus, it must be concluded that we are all born sinners, since we are all born human and sin is regarded as a property of humanity. In this vein, consider Ephesians 2:1-3:
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
Paul is here reminding Christians of what they were like before their conversion to Christ ("you were dead in your trespasses...in which you formerly walked"). Thus, all people, until and unless they are converted, are sinners. Paul goes on to make it absolutely clear that all Christians came from this state ("...we to all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh") and that all non-Christians are still in this state ("...and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.") Thus, Scripture regards all people before they are saved by Christ as sinners and thus deserving of punishment from God. Which is to say that from the inception of our existence, we are sinful.
In Psalm 14:2, 3 we read: "The Lord has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one." Here again we see unrighteousness as a property of the human race: "they have all turned aside...there is no one who does good."
Job 15:14 similarly declares that sinfulness is a property of humanity: "What is man, that he should be pure, or he who is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?" Verses 15-16 then speaks of the human race as a whole in shocking terms expressing our general corruption: "Behold, He puts no trust in His holy ones, And the heavens are not pure in His sight; How much less one who is detestable and corrupt, Man, who drinks iniquity like water!"
Jeremiah 17:9 says that "the heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; who can understand it." This seems to assume original sin--wickedness is a property of the human heart. Ecclesiastes 9:3 declares a similar truth: "...the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil, and insanity is in their hearts through their lives." Again, the human heart is sinful, and therefore all humans are sinful.
These texts indicate, then, that human nature is corrupt. Therefore, even infants are corrupt because they are human. And if infants are corrupt, then this is the same as saying that we are born corrupt--which means we are born with original sin. One may, however, object that these texts speak nothing of infants, only those who are old enough to make moral decisions. All of those people are sinful, but this doesn't mean that infants are.
This is an ingenious objection, but it does not succeed. First, the texts do not seem to restrict themselves to people who are old enough to make intelligent decisions. They seem to speak of human nature as a whole, a classification under which infants certainly fall. Second, as Jonathan Edwards pointed out, "..this would not alter the case...For if all mankind, as soon as ever they are capable of reflecting, and knowing their own moral state, find themselves wicked, this proves that they are wicked by nature."
In other words, even if these verses were only speaking of people old enough to mentally understand sin, they would still be teaching original sin. For on that view, these verses would be saying that all people, as soon as they know good from evil, find themselves sinners. But if all people, as soon as they are capable of moral decisions, find themselves sinners, this proves that they are that way by nature.
Third, Edwards also says, "why should man be so continually spoken of as evil, carnal, perverse, deceitful, and desperately wicked, if all men are by nature as perfectly innocent, and free form any propensity to evil, as Adam was the first moment of his creation?" (Edwards, The Great Christian Doctrine of Original Sin, 188).
Infants die, therefore they are not innocent
Death--both physical and spiritual--is a result of sin (Romans 5:12; 6:23). Thus, death only comes upon those who have sinned. Since infants die, they therefore must be sinners. It could be objected that Christ was sinless, and yet He died. But He willingly gave up His life, and He did it to conquer the curse of death that we were under. In fact, God imputed to Christ our sins on the cross, and Christ died in punishment of those sins.
If humanity is not born in sin, wouldn't we expect there to be some people who have "beaten the odds" and never sinned?
If we are born innocent and good, why aren't there at least some people who have continued in this state and remained sinless? The fact that everybody sins needs some explanation. The best explanation is that we are sinners by nature. Someone might argue that the reason all people sin is because society is sinful, and thus society renders it impossible for anybody to keep themselves entirely pure. But that only pushes the question back one step. How did society get sinful in the first place? If people are born morally good, then how did it come about that they congregated into socities that influence all people to sin?
No one lives a perfect life, because we have a fallen nature, disconnected from God. A self-serving nature. No one lives a perfect life because we have a tempter. Original sin and predestination make Satan's job extremely easy, lol. He can just let God do it.:devil::zzzz: I still say we are not under the sins of the fathers, and I still say sin is not imputed without a knowledge of the law. So a child would be exempt from the responsibility of sin until he understood the law, for sin is not imputed where there is no law.
God allows evil to exist because we have free choice. And just imagine the battle between God and Satan as a court room. God put himself on trial. The whole of His created beings are the jury. Satan is accusing Him of putting requirements on His creation that aren't fair. Requirements that limit them to only what God wants. Just like with Job. Satan says the only reason Job serves God is because God bribed him with riches. God says, "ok, I know Job. Go ahead and take all that he has except his life, see if he still serves Me". Now why would Satan even bother if He knew humans had lost their free will and couldn't fall? Anyway. God was vindicated and Satan was rebuked. Now imagine that on a universal scale. All of God's created unfallen beings were wondering if Satan was right. When God died on the cross it showed that He was willing to sacrifice Himself in order to redeem a fallen race. Satan showed what the horrible, selfish effects of his "plan" were. God was vindicated, Satan was rebuked again. God showed that all those requirements were in place to keep us from harm, they're there to protect us and keep us free from sin. That He really has our best interest at heart, and that He's not some tyrannical God that forces His will on His creation. A perfect being in a perfect environment in the presence of God still had the choice to fall from perfection. If you say that God created Satan to sin, then He created 1/3 of the angels to sin. Then He created us to sin. God hates sin. If you believe that then God isn't much better then Satan. In fact, that would make Him worse. God would be forcing beings to sin, where Satan just tempts them.
so your saying god cant see the future?He didnt know satan would rebel,or adam?If He did,then he created creatures,that he knew,in the end would always be rebels,thus deserving judgement.I guess when god flooded the whole earth and drowned everyone he said to himself,surprisingly,those creatures got out of my control,so Ill go ahead and destroy them and start over.your veiw of god limits god,also this explains your need to make hell finite.
If god knows everything that ever will happen,then god created beings bound for judgement,with full knowledge that they would not turn to him,thus deserving judgement,sort of like..............vessels of wrath?
It's the only thing that makes sense. I believe He creates everything with free will. He saw the end from the beginning and said..."You know what? Lucifer will sin against me...but instead of interfering with His free will, I'm going to let this play out to rid sin from the universe forever. I will make a special race in my own image, and I will allow Satan to tempt them. They will fall of their own free will as well, but I will save them from themselves by dying for their sins myself. Then they will forever be my people, and they will always be a witness against the effects of sin so it will not rise up a second time. I know it's going to be horrible, but I will make their reward worth it all if they choose me. And if they don't...it was still their choice." If you take away free will it's more like "I will leave them all in Adams sin, except for the few I will force to choose me." And then there is no real justice or purpose to any of this. God always has a purpose, and He has perfect justice. I just don't see anywhere in the bible where it says He forces us to do anything. Influence maybe. Force? Don't think so. I just think He operates inside the mechanics of His own creation. I could be wrong. But I think the bible makes it clear that we have a choice. And I think it makes it clear that someone can be saved and then lost because of unbelief, but if they forsake their unbelief they will be saved again. Grafted back into the vine. Once again, I see the couple verses that say "predestination", and "clay"...but I think the weight of scripture says "choice". I think you're using 2 verses to interpret the whole bible, when it should be the other way around.
Predestination is a precious and serious thing. We should not treat discussions about it like a game, and neither should we ignore it as something that is unimportant. At stake in our understanding of predestination is whether we are giving God full credit and glory for saving us. We should strive for a true belief in the matter so that we can rightly glorify God for what He has done to save us, and rejoice in this wonderful truth.
Predestination, as I will use the term, means that God chooses who will believe in Christ. This choice is based upon God's own will and plan, not on anything in the individual. It is "unconditional." Those who believe in Christ ultimately do so because God has first chosen them and brought them to faith. Often, these beliefs are referred to as "unconditional election" and "effectual grace."
I am convinced that these are glorious truths about God. A proper view of them magnifies the greatness and love and majesty and excellency of God and can revolutionize our relationship with Him. A denial of these truths, I believe, involves a reduction of the supremacy of God in our hearts. Before examining the how God is glorified in predestination, let's first examine the biblical evidence for it.
Does the Bible teach that God chooses who will believe in Christ?
In John 6:37 Jesus says "All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." Who comes to Jesus? The ones that the Father has given Him! How many of them come? All of them! One may say, "That is true, but God has simply given to Christ the ones that He foreknew would come to Him anyway. This doesn't mean that He chooses whom to save." But that interpretation does not fit the verse. It would amount to Jesus saying, "All that will come to Me, will come to Me." That doesn't make sense. Jesus seems to be saying that the reason a person comes to Him is because the Father has first chosen to give him to Jesus.
This is confirmed by the context of the following verses. In verses 44-45, Jesus says "no one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, and they shall all be taught of God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me." Let's look at this closer. Verse 44 is clear that in order to come to Jesus, you must be drawn. But could it be that all humans are drawn, and many chose to reject the drawing and veto God's will? The verse argues against that interpretation. It seems to teach that everyone who is drawn by the Father will come to Jesus.
There are many reasons for this. First, in verse 44, Jesus says that the same people who are drawn are also raised up on the last day. Since not everyone will be raised to eternal life (John 5:24), we must conclude that not everyone is drawn. For everyone who is drawn, is raised to eternal life: "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."
The next verse confirms this interpretation that everyone who is drawn by the Father comes to Jesus: "Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me." "Hearing and learning" from the Father in this verse are used parallel to "draw" from the previous verse. They are being used interchangeably, and thus mean the same thing (see above, where I quote the passage). So when Jesus says "Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me," He is basically saying, "everyone who is drawn by the Father, comes to Me." This seems to be an open and shut case for predestination--since all who are drawn by the Father come to Jesus, the Father's drawing is always sufficient to cause a person to believe in Christ. Thus, the Father's drawing of a person is the cause of his believing in Christ. Further, since not everyone comes to the Father, then God does not choose to draw (and thus save) everyone.
Later in the chapter, Jesus makes these truths crystal clear. He says that coming to Him is given by God, and that the ultimate reason some people do not come to Him is because they are not drawn: "`But there are some of you who do not believe.' For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. And He was saying, `For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father'" (John 6:64-65). Why did Jesus say that no one can come unless he is drawn? Because there were many who did not believe: "But there are some of you who do not believe...for this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father." Jesus is giving the reason why his opponents remained in unbelief. His reason was simple--they had not been drawn by the Father. If everyone was in fact drawn by the Father, there would have been no point to Jesus' statement that a person must be drawn in order to come: "There is no point in telling disbelieving people who supposedly already are drawn by the Father that they must be drawn in order to come...this would do nothing to explain what the context of this passage demands: why his opponents remain in their unbelief."[1]
In summary, Jesus is saying that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws him (vv. 44, 65), that everyone who is drawn will come (vv. 37, 45), and therefore those who ultimately reject Him have not been drawn by the Father (vv. 64-65). Clearly, the ultimate reason a person comes to Christ is because the Father has first chosen him, that is chosen to draw Him. If a person does not come to Jesus it does not mean that God was unable to change that person's heart; it means that God chose--for wise and holy reasons--not to draw him but instead to leave him in his own sinful way. Now we will briefly look at some other verses concerning God's unconditional choice of whom to save.
John 1:13 is clear that we do not choose to be born again. Being born again is a result of God sovereignly deciding to give you the new birth: "...who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." One does not become born again by believing; one is enabled to believe by being born again.
In Romans 9:15 Paul quotes God: "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." Paul then draws a general principle from this: "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy." In verse 18 he states, "So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."
First Timothy 1:9 says, "...who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity..." Paul is clear that God's choice to call us is based upon His purposes and that the choice was made from all eternity.
In Matthew 11:27 Jesus says "...nor does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." The next verse makes clear that Jesus did not view predestination as inconsistent with the free offer of the gospel made to all, for He continues with "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest."
Now that we have seen a biblical foundation for predestination, we are in a position to be stunned by the amazing glory of God revealed in this truth.
Predestination is God-centered and hopeful
Most Christians are aware that we are to be God-centered. That is, God is to be the focus of our life, He is to be our greatest treasure, we are to love Him above all else, and we are to seek to glorify Him in everything that we do. But to most of us it has never occurred that God is also God-centered. God places more value on Himself than anything else, God delights in Himself above all things, and God seeks to glorify Himself in everything that He does.
This truth is sometimes met with some skepticism. But if you think about it, wouldn't it be odd if the God who commanded us to seek His glory in all that we do (1 Corinthians 10:31) did not also seek His own glory in everything that He did (Isaiah 48:11)? But before we can understand why God seeks to glorify Himself in everything He does, we must understand that God values Himself above all things.
John Piper explains why God delights in and values Himself above everything else: "God would be unrighteous (just as we would) if he valued anything more than what is supremely valuable. But he himself is supremely valuable. If he did not take infinite delight in the worth of his own glory he would be unrighteous. For it is right to take delight in a person in proportion to the excellence of that person's glory."[2]
Since God is infinitely valuable, he takes infinite delight in Himself (he would be unrighteous not to!). But what is the natural reaction to something that brings us great delight? We want to spread and proclaim and make known what it is that delights us so that we can have the pleasure of sharing it with others to enjoy it as well! We double our delight through the pleasure of sharing our delight. It is similar with God. Because God delights in Himself above all things, He seeks to display and make known His moral excellence and infinite worth (His glory) in everything that He does. If God did not seek His glory in everything that He does, then He would be implying that there is something more valuable than Himself (which would be idolatry). If God's goal in all that He does was not to enjoy glorifying Himself, He would not be acting in accordance with the infinite delight that He takes in Himself.
Creation is an excellent illustration of these truths. "...the creation of this spectacular universe is the overflow of God's joyful bounty. He did not create the world to make up for some deficiency in himself. He created because it's the very nature of fullness to overflow. It's the nature of unbounded joy to spread itself around. And so God rejoiced to make the universe as a kind of spin-off of his overflowing delight in his own glory."[3]
But is it loving for God to seek His own glory? Yes, it is. "When you stop and think about it this is the most loving thing that God could ever do; because the greatest benefit that human beings could ever receive is to know and share in the glory of God."[4]
Our salvation is perhaps the clearest illustration that it is loving for God to pursue His own glory. As a means of spreading and displaying the delight that He has in His own superior worth, God acts to make His glory known and admired and enjoyed by His creatures. Another way of saying this is that God acts to make a name for Himself. God takes delight in His name because it is a reflection and display of His glory.
This is where predestination comes into the picture: "The way God intends to make a name for his glorious grace in all the world is to choose a people for himself. And as Jeremiah says, `He will make them cling to him that they might be for him a people, and a name, and a praise, and a glory' (Jer. 13:11). In other words, to extend the pleasure that God has in his own name calls out a people to enjoy and praise and proclaim that name. And the Bible calls these people `the elect.'"[5] Predestination is God-centered because God delights in it as a means of spreading the delight that He has in His own superior worth. "In love having predestined us unto sonship through Jesus Christ for himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace" (Ephesians 1:5-6). "Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom" (Luke 12:32). "For the Lord will not abandon His people on account of His great name, because the Lord has been pleased to make you a people for Himself"(1 Samuel 12:22).
This is great news for us! It means that we have a glorious God. It means that God's electing love is "the gracious overflow of his boundless happiness guided by his infinite wisdom."[6] It means that God's love is God-centered. It means that God takes delight in our salvation because it glorifies Him by bringing us into the amazing enjoyment of His infinite worth. He predestined us "according to the good pleasure of His will" (Ephesians 1:5). The God-centeredness of God's love is an amazing thing. Let this knowledge bring us into a greater adoration of our God.
Predestination is also a very hopeful and encouraging truth. Understanding that God predestined us gives us deep, confident security and trust that God will fully accomplish His plan for each of us. God will not deny Himself the pleasure of bringing His chosen sons and daughters into the enjoyment of His glory (see 1 Samuel 12:22 and Romans 8:28-30). If you are a child of God, you will not fall away but will overcome the world (1 John 5:4). We need not despair! This frees us to zealously and confidently obey and persevere through trial and temptation. And it encourages us to pick ourselves back up when we fall.
But if predestination is so glorifying to God, why does He not choose to save everyone? Part of the answer seems to be that by letting some people perish in their sins, God's mercy and grace is more glorified than if He had saved everyone. This is because mercy and grace are best highlighted and understood by us when seen in relation to their contrast--wrath. "What if God, in order to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His gory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory" (Romans 9:22-23). This truth is not to be taken lightly.
If we do not accept predestination, it does not seem that we can give God all of the glory for our salvation. For if He does not cause us to come to Christ, but instead we provide, out of our own free will, the co-operation with grace that God needs before He can save us, then God does not get all of the credit for our salvation. Credit (and thus the glory) would be divided between us and God, because God only does what is necessary to make our salvation possible, but we must do what is necessary to make this possibility actual. If we deny that God chooses who will believe in Christ, and instead think that God leaves it up to us to choose for ourselves, then "nothing that God and Christ have done can save us unless we add something to it; the decisive factor which actually saves us is our own believing."[7]
J.I. Packer brings out the full implications of denying predestination and believing that the ultimate deciding factor for our salvation lies in our own will (Arminianism is the name for this belief): "What [Arminianism says] comes to this--that Christ saves us with our help; and what that means, when one thinks it out, is this--that we save ourselves with Christ's help."[8] Packer continues with a penetrating observation: "It is perhaps, no wonder that our preaching begets so little reverence and humility, and that our professed converts are so self-confident and so deficient in self-knowledge and in the good works which Scripture regards as fruit of true repentance."[9]
Let me close with a plea: give God all the glory for saving you. Give Him the honor of acknowledging His sovereign rights over you as Creator. Rejoice in the fact that God's purposes cannot fail, and that everything is under His control. Take delight in the God-centeredness of His grace. Rejoice in His excellency. And worship Him for His supremacy.
Notes
1. Thomas Schreiner and Bruce Ware, The Grace of God, the Bondage of the Will (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1995), p. 356.
2. John Piper, Desiring God: Meditations of a Christian Hedonist (Multnomah Books, 1996), p. 43.
3. John Piper, The Pleasure of God in Election.
4. Piper, "The Pleasure of God in Election."
5. Piper, "The Pleasure of God in Election."
6. John Piper.
7. J.I. Packer, A Quest for Godliness (Wheaton, Illinois: Crossway Books, 1990), p. 137.
