But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that fall asleep; that ye sorrow not, even as the rest, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; 17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
first of you must understand what is taking place here ; this is the first resurrection not the end of the world!
let's break it down it is talking about the dead believers in Christ what is taking place is the return of Christ to the earth...
Christ is says is descending...very important....he never stops that descending...
the dead in Christ are risen...this must happen for the whole body of Christ to rule and reign on earth....we must at this time be caught up into the clouds and descend with Him Jesus it's says will coming in the clouds ...
we shall ever be" IN The Lord" not in heaven
clouds means witness in scripture
the Lord is descending for His 1,000 year reign....
the only ones who part take in this resurrection is the one's who die for the gospel see revelations...
the rapture is a lie of the enemy of our souls
God will transform us for we "are more then meets the eye"
God is coming for a spotless bride, put off your filthy garments and put on the robe of righteousness
the next more of God is the cleansing of the temple it will be very fast
Um...Jesus comes again...the wicked that are alive are destroyed with the brightness of His coming. The righteous dead are raised and changed in the twinkling of an eye and are caught up into the clouds. Then the saved that were alive at His coming are changed and caught up. They go to heaven for 1,000 years. While they are in heaven the righteous will look at the deeds of the wicked angels and the unsaved and judge them. Then the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven, all the wicked are raised from the dead, judgment is passed, and they are destroyed along with Satan and his angels. Fire comes down from heaven and consumes them. God creates a new heavens and a new earth and they forever live and reign with Him. That's the way revelation tells it anyway. I'm not really sure what you were saying either. The tribulation happens before Jesus comes.
She is saying that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture theory is a lie from Satan and I agree.
The Day Of The Lord
The Day of the Lord is a prophetic event that has never occurred as yet in history. Every where in scripture where it is mentioned it is always in a future tense. Additionally there is only one event called "The Day of the Lord". However there are other phrases given that represent the same event such as Day of Christ, Day of Jesus Christ, Day of God. This event is usually associated with Armageddon, judgement and wrath but the main event that it is associated or linked to is the "Sun and Moon" signs that occur after the Tribulation as we will see below.[see: Isa. 13:6-13, Joel 3:9-17, Zech. 14]. This is exactly what Revelation 19 records as the "battle of Armageddon."
Many of those in the Pre-Trib. camp promote the idea that the Day of the Lord includes the Tribulation period. This allows them to reconcile 1 Thessalonians 5 with pre-tribulationism, since Paul instructed believers to be watching for the "Day of the Lord," [1 Thess. 5:1-6]. If the "Day of the Lord" does comes after the tribulation, as every Old Testament occurrence indicates, then Christians must still be here at the end of the tribulation in order to be watching for that day.
Much has been written by pre-tribulationists trying to stretch the Day of the Lord forward to include the entire tribulation and pre-trib rapture. Comparisons of similar themes, such as wrath, judgment, etc. have been offered as evidence. Yet, absolutely no one has been able to provide any biblical support making them synonymous. None of the Old Testament passages support this conclusion. It comes only from a preconceived assumption of a pre-trib rapture superimposed on the Thessalonian passage. Their theory is a product of reverse engineering of the Scriptures in order to get the desired outcome rather than applying sound principles of interpretation. The fact is, there are definite biblical passages that totally and clearly forbid the "Day of the Lord" from overlapping the tribulation. The two are mutually exclusive.
In the book of Acts, the apostle Peter quotes the Prophet Joel with regards to end time events that were starting to occur on Pentecost that day.
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
The events of that day were a fulfillment of this prophesy. but Peter continued to quote the rest of the prophesy which had not yet been fulfilled but would at some later time within the "Last Days".
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
The most important point to pay attention to is the "timing" of WHEN "The Day of the Lord" will occur. It is exceptionally clear that there will be very specific signs with the Sun and Moon that will occur FIRST and then the Day of the Lord will come about. But the question is WHEN does the sun and moon signs occur? Jesus answers this question for us.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
In Mat 24:29 above, Jesus just laid out the timeline as to when the Day of the Lord will occur. By Jesus stating with absolute clarity that the "Sun and Moon" signs occur AFTER the Tribulation, He placed the beginning of the Day of the Lord AFTER the Tribulation. This is a very criticle point! By Jesus stating that the Sun and moon signs occur AFTER the Tribulation and Peter and Joel state that the Day of the Lord begins AFTER the Sun and Moon signs, precludes any possibility of the Day of the Lord from occurring at any time prior to the end of the Tribulation.
In other words, NONE of the Tribulation can be included within the Day of the Lord. Why this is an important point is that there are some within the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Camp that claim that the Day of the Lord includes the entire Tribulation period and that it occurs in "phases". The problem with their theory is that they have no scriptural support and the scriptures clearly refute that notion. If the Day of the Lord were to occur in phases then the scriptures would say so but they do not. The reason why some in the Pre-Trib. camp make this claim is due to what the apostle Paul says regarding the Day of the Lord and the Rapture in 1 Thess.5:1-2. Let's look at 1 Thess. 4:13-18 first to give us the context of the discussion.
1Thess 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
In other words we cannot be raptured before the dead in Christ are Resurrected.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Again, the Resurrection must occur FIRST, prior to the Rapture.
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
As a side note please notice that verse 17 says we will always be with the Lord, but it does not say WHERE that will be. The verse does NOT say Jesus goes to Heaven as some Pre-Tribbers claim. It merely states that we will simply be with Him.
As we can see above, Paul is talking about the "Resurrection and Rapture" of Christians. He does not say when this occurs but is merely describing the events and their sequence, except that he does say it occurs AFTER Jesus leaves Heaven. Then Paul CONTINUES the same topic in the following verses. I say he continues because Paul uses the conjunctive word "BUT".
1Thess 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
In 1 Thess.5:1 Paul says that it is not necessary to explain to them as to the "Times and seasons". The times and seasons he is referring to is what he just finised talking about in chapter 4. The Resurrection and Rapture. He then goes on in verse 2 and reminds them that this event is something they were already familiar with and called the events of chapter 4, "The Day of the Lord".
Isa 2:17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
This is an exclusive statement. Since the Anti-christ and the False Idol are worshipped during the Great Tribulation, that would prohibit the Day of The Lord from being included in any time period prior to the end of the Tribulation since "the Lord ALONE will be exhalted in that day"!
So let's put all this together in sequence.
First, Jesus says in Matt 24:29 that AFTER the Tribulation ends then the Sun and moon signs occur.
Second: Joel and Peter state that the sun and moon signs occur BEFORE the Day of the Lord occurs.
Third: Paul calls The Resurrection and Rapture The Day of the Lord and that clearly occurs AFTER the Tribulation. Therefore the Resurrection and Rapture must occur AFTER the Great Tribulation.
If the principles of the Historical, Grammatical and Literal Hermeneutic are followed consistently then the Scriptures prohibit any other interpretation without doing violence to God's Holy Word.
Well, then I agree on that point, but she is also saying that the 1,000 year reign of Christ will be on this earth. Don't think that's true, unless I'm misunderstanding what she posted again.
Im not much into eschatology,I guess I need to study more on it before I make any decisions,but its kind of a drain on the brain.One thing I will say is,revelations is the most symbolic book of the bible,so I wonder if any position would be exactly right,probably the easiest book to misinterperate.
Mm....I dunno, the symbolism is just another way of saying something is going to happen. I believe all of it will happen, and I believe the symbolism can be interpreted. And daniel would have the most symbolism...man...that book is confusing. But I think its confusing on purpose. God didn't want it to be interpreted correctly by just anyone. Only the people that "hear", only the people that "seek"...because if you really pay attention, those two books tell the future almost exactly. Like I said before, if you ever need to prove the validity of the bible to someone, show them the prophecies that came true a thousand years after the bible was written.
Yes the 1000 year reign of Christ is literal and on Earth. The Bible is very clear on this from the Old Testament to Revelation. The way things are looking in this world it may very well be in our lifetime.
Wow ...so few understand we are saved from Gods Wrath..Not The Tribulation....we will see the son of perdition reveal himself...can't see it if we flew away...I take it you've read Ezekiel. Ch 13...I too teach Truth...yet it is received by few....I believe the false prophet has been elected....illegally but sits in the seat...the deadly wound I believe is when bary soento is reveled(already has been)..and the one worl government continues...please write back..
