Thread: 🤔🤔 can you call yourself a true Christian and deny the trinity ❓❓
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🤔🤔 can you call yourself a true Christian and deny the trinity ❓❓
Posted : 13 Jan, 2022 10:57 AM
We all know that Jesus said If you deny that he is the I AM you will die in your sins -- John 8:24
but what about the trinity??
"No." If you don’t believe in the Trinity, then you don’t understand who God is. You may say the word “God” but you don’t understand His nature. Second, you couldn’t possibly understand who Christ is—that He is God in human flesh. The Incarnation of Christ is an essential component of the biblical gospel, as John 1:1-14 and many other biblical passages make clear. To deny the Trinity is to deny the Incarnation. And to deny the Incarnation is to wrongly understand the true gospel.
In saying that, I realize that such an answer is going to not only impact people that you may have witnessed to (like Mormons), but it also applies to some in the broader Pentecostal movement, called United Pentecostals or "Jesus-Only" Pentecostals. Such individuals hold to a kind of modalism, where God is sometimes in the mode of the Father or the mode of the Son or the mode of the Spirit, but He’s never all three at the same time. That too is a deficient and heretical view of the Trinity. It denies the distinct Personhood of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
The same question sometimes arises about the virgin birth. I think it is possible for a person to become a Christian before learning about the details of the virgin birth, though that person would certainly assume that Jesus Christ must have had a unique birth since He is both God and man. But, if someone knows about the virgin birth and says, “I deny the virgin birth,” then he is simultaneously denying the deity of Christ, and also the Trinity. Such a person betrays the fact that they do not understand the gospel, and therefore cannot have truly been saved.
☠️☠️ the largest nontrinitarian Christian denominations are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Oneness Pentecostals, Jehovah's Witnesses, La Luz del Mundo and the Iglesia ni Cristo. There are a number of other smaller groups, including Christadelphians, Church of the Blessed Hope, Christian Scientists, Dawn Bible Students, Living Church of God, Assemblies of Yahweh, Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Christians, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, The Church of God International, the United Church of God, Church of God General Conference, and Church of God of the Faith of Abraham...and islam
⚠️⚠️ of course the main problem for the c u l t s is they can't even properly define the trinity let's take a look @@
Jehovah witnesses
Isaiah was foretelling a dereliction of duty on the part of religious leaders. For instance, they do not teach Bible truth but teach their flocks unscriptural doctrines regarding eternal torment in a fiery hell, a trinity of three gods in one, and immortality of the soul—all of pagan origin. And the clergy have supported all the wars of their nations, even when it meant killing people of their own religion. This is in direct violation of God’s commandments.” (Awake 12/8/2098, p. 11 What Jesus Is Now)
Islam
“And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, ‘O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, “Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?”‘ He will say, ‘Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen,'” (Surah 5:116).
🤔🤔 can you call yourself a true Christian and deny the trinity ❓❓
Posted : 13 Jan, 2022 10:59 AM
PART 2️⃣
The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
The parallelism of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit is not unique to Matthew’s Gospel, but appears elsewhere in the New Testament (e.g., 2 Cor. 13:14, Heb. 9:14), as well as in the writings of the earliest Christians, who clearly understood them in the sense that we do today—that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three divine persons who are one divine being (God).
Here are examples of what early Christian writers had to say on the subject of the Trinity:
The Didache
“After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. . . . If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).
Ignatius of Antioch
“[T]o the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).
“For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).
Justin Martyr
“We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein” (First Apology 13:5–6 [A.D. 151]).
Theophilus of Antioch
“It is the attribute of God, of the most high and almighty and of the living God, not only to be everywhere, but also to see and hear all; for he can in no way be contained in a place. . . . The three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity: God, his Word, and his Wisdom” (To Autolycus 2:15 [A.D. 181]).
Irenaeus
“For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit” (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
Tertullian
“We do indeed believe that there is only one God, but we believe that under this dispensation, or, as we say, oikonomia, there is also a Son of this one only God, his Word, who proceeded from him and through whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made. . . . We believe he was sent down by the Father, in accord with his own promise, the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit” (Against Praxeas 2 [A.D. 216]).
“And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for the unity is distributed in a Trinity. Placed in order, the three are the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (ibid.).
“Keep always in mind the rule of faith which I profess and by which I bear witness that the Father and the Son and the Spirit are inseparable from each other, and then you will understand what is meant by it. Observe now that I say the Father is other [distinct], the Son is other, and the Spirit is other. This statement is wrongly understood by every uneducated or perversely disposed individual, as if it meant diversity and implied by that diversity a separation of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” (ibid., 9).
“Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, who are yet distinct one from another. These three are, one essence, not one person, as it is said, ‘I and my Father are one’ [John 10:30], in respect of unity of being not singularity of number” (ibid., 25).
Origen
“For we do not hold that which the heretics imagine: that some part of the being of God was converted into the Son, or that the Son was procreated by the Father from non-existent substances, that is, from a being outside himself, so that there was a time when he [the Son] did not exist” (The Fundamental Doctrines 4:4:1 [A.D. 225]).
“For it is the Trinity alone which exceeds every sense in which not only temporal but even eternal may be understood. It is all other things, indeed, which are outside the Trinity, which are to be measured by time and ages” (ibid.).
Hippolytus
“The Word alone of this God is from God himself, wherefore also the Word is God, being the being of God” (Refutation of All Heresies 10:29 [A.D. 228]).
Pope Dionysius
“Next, then, I may properly turn to those who divide and cut apart and destroy the most sacred proclamation of the Church of God, making of it [the Trinity], as it were, three powers, distinct substances, and three godheads. . . . [Some heretics] proclaim that there are in some way three gods, when they divide the sacred unity into three substances foreign to each other and completely separate” (Letter to Dionysius of Alexandria 1 [A.D. 262]).
“Therefore, the divine Trinity must be gathered up and brought together in one, a summit, as it were, I mean the omnipotent God of the universe. . . . It is blasphemy, then, and not a common one but the worst, to say that the Son is in any way a handiwork [creature]. . . . But if the Son came into being [was created], there was a time when these attributes did not exist; and, consequently, there was a time when God was without them, which is utterly absurd” (ibid., 1–2).
“Neither, then, may we divide into three godheads the wonderful and divine unity. . . . Rather, we must believe in God, the Father Almighty; and in Christ Jesus, his Son; and in the Holy Spirit; and that the Word is united to the God of the universe. ‘For,’ he says, ‘The Father and I are one,’ and ‘I am in the Father, and the Father in me’” (ibid., 3).
Gregory the Wonderworker
“There is one God. . . . There is a perfect Trinity, in glory and eternity and sovereignty, neither divided nor estranged. Wherefore there is nothing either created or in servitude in the Trinity; nor anything superinduced, as if at some former period it was non-existent, and at some later period it was introduced. And thus neither was the Son ever wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation and without change, the same Trinity abides ever” (Declaration of Faith [A.D. 265]).
Sechnall of Ireland
“Hymns, with Revelation and the Psalms of God [Patrick] sings, and does expound the same for the edifying of God’s people. This law he holds in the Trinity of the sacred Name and teaches one being in three persons” (Hymn in Praise of St. Patrick 22 [A.D. 444]).
Patrick of Ireland
“I bind to myself today the strong power of an invocation of the Trinity—the faith of the Trinity in unity, the Creator of the universe” (The Breastplate of St. Patrick 1 [A.D. 447]).
“[T]here is no other God, nor has there been heretofore, nor will there be hereafter, except God the Father unbegotten, without beginning, from whom is all beginning, upholding all things, as we say, and his Son Jesus Christ, whom we likewise to confess to have always been with the Father—before the world’s beginning. . . . Jesus Christ is the Lord and God in whom we believe . . . and who has poured out on us abundantly the Holy Spirit . . . whom we confess and adore as one God in the Trinity of the sacred Name” (Confession of St. Patrick 4 [A.D. 452]).
Augustine
“All the Catholic interpreters of the divine books of the Old and New Testaments whom I have been able to read, who wrote before me about the Trinity, which is God, intended to teach in accord with the Scriptures that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are of one and the same substance constituting a divine unity with an inseparable equality; and therefore there are not three gods but one God, although the Father begot the Son, and therefore he who is the Son is not the Father; and the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son but only the Spirit of the Father and of the Son, himself, too, coequal to the Father and to the Son and belonging to the unity of the Trinity” (The Trinity1:4:7 [A.D. 408]).
Fulgence of Ruspe
“See, in short you have it that the Father is one, the Son another, and the Holy Spirit another; in Person, each is other, but in nature they are not other. In this regard he says: ‘The Father and I, we are one’ (John 10:30). He teaches us that one refers to their nature, and we are to their Persons. In like manner it is said: ‘There are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Spirit; and these three are one’ (1 John 5:7)” (The Trinity 4:1–2 [c. A.D. 515]).
“But in the one true God and Trinity it is naturally true not only that God is one but also that he is a Trinity, for the reason that the true God himself is a Trinity of Persons and one in nature. Through this natural unity the whole Father is in the Son and in the Holy Spirit, and the whole Holy Spirit, too, is in the Father and in the Son. None of these is outside any of the others; because no one of them precedes any other of them in eternity or exceeds any other in greatness, or is superior to any other in power” (The Rule of Faith 4 [c. A.D. 523).
🤔🤔 can you call yourself a true Christian and deny the trinity ❓❓
Posted : 15 Jan, 2022 09:45 AM
tinyfaithdavid denying the CONTEXT of the Bible states - In the long run, I kinda doubt that a willfully stubborn Trinity denier can be saved.
There you have it dear readers, if you don't worship the >word trinity< then you cannot be saved, when the BIBLE says NOTHING of such a CULT word mentioned in the Bible, let alone
tinyfaithdavid and 'bro' CULTISTrsvp making an IDOL out of it now - IN THEIR WILLFUL STUBBORNNESS belief in it!
Note the obvious contradictions below to these two OUT OF CONTEXT CLOWNS beliefs apart from what the Bible ACTUALLY teaches about the ONE omnipresent Father YHWH that
can be in different places at the same time or ONE place together, all the sum of His (singularness) in PARTS for a purpose!!!
Quote from another thread - The Trinity is there >are< three persons. >>>They are >NOT< not three separate gods and are >NOT< three separate beings.<<< They >ARE< three distinct PERSONS" ????????????????????????
What a CULT contradiction! Folks you cannot make this stuff up! Give the teaching CULTS enough rope (let them >attempt< to prove there MANMADE doctrine) and they will hang themselves in FOOLISH contradictions and outright confusion of their very OWN CULT beliefs they worship, that is the writings of MODERN apostate men, that disagrees with PAST Prophets and Apostles - FROM THE BIBLE!
LMBO!
In summary CULTISTrsvp CULTLY teaches (along with 'bro' tinyfaithdavid!) - that their 'gods are not three separate gods' but really 'three distinct persons' (that are no longer 'gods' then plural???) ! Folks DO NOT ADJUST YOUR TV SET, THIS IS AN ACTUAL HORROR CONTRADICTION SHOW of twisting Scripture but ONLY from between the ears of CULTISTrsvp (and 'bro' tinyfaithdavid's) spinning, wobbling, and tilting sphere shaped EMPTY heads, very much like their BELIEF in his spinning, wobbling, and tilting earth they WORSHIPS FROM ROME, apart from the truth in Scripture!!!
🤔🤔 can you call yourself a true Christian and deny the trinity ❓❓
Posted : 15 Jan, 2022 10:23 AM
" There you have it dear readers, if you don't worship the >word trinity "
👹👹 teddy bugs
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
we don’t have to see a specific word in the Bible in order for the concept it describes to be true. Why should this be any different for the word “Trinity” and the concept that it represents?
The following are other words that the Bible does not use, but the concepts are mentioned:
Atheism is the teaching that there is no God. “The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God'” (Psalm 14:1)
Divinity which means divine quality or godlike character. Yet, we speak of the godlike quality of the Lord God. See Psalm 139.
Incarnation which means the word (God) who became flesh. Yet, this is definitely taught in the Bible (John 1:1, 14).
Monotheism is the teaching that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:8).
Rapture is the teaching that the Christians who are alive when Jesus returns will be caught up to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:16-18).
So, to say that the Trinity isn’t true because the word “Trinity” isn’t in the Bible is an invalid argument. Furthermore, to say that–if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity He would have clearly taught it in scripture–is also an invalid argument. Something does not have to be clearly formulated in the Bible to be valid. Not all things taught in the Bible are perfectly clear. Take a look at the book of Revelation. It contains many things that are cryptic that must be interpreted after examining all of the Bible. Even then, there are disagreements as to what some things mean. Yet, we know that the truths there are true whether or not we discover them.
Nevertheless, there are scriptures that demonstrate a Trinitarian aspect
Matt. 28:19, Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
2 Cor. 13:14, The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.
Eph. 4:4-7, There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
Jude 20-21, “But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.”
🤔🤔 can you call yourself a true Christian and deny the trinity ❓❓
Posted : 15 Jan, 2022 10:44 AM
Folks lets go further in depth (the real KISS priciple!) quote CULTISTrsvp on his Faulty CULT teaching 'trinity/triad/trio of gods!
Quote - 'that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three divine persons who are one divine being (God).'
In another thread he clearly says - 'three separate gods and are >NOT< three separate beings.' and now they are really just - 'one divine being (God).' and not plural then, right?
But then contradicts himself in another thread saying - 'They >ARE< three distinct PERSONS' but NOT three separate beings.'
Dear readers, are NOT 'persons' and or 'beings' the same description??? According to CRACK smoking CULTISTrsvp his gods are NOT 'beings' but three 'persons'???? And so likewise people remember the INSPIRED words of CRACK smoking CULTISTrsvp, that you as a human cannot be both a 'person' (soul) and a 'being' at the same time!!! CORRECT?
🤔🤔 can you call yourself a true Christian and deny the trinity ❓❓
Posted : 15 Jan, 2022 12:05 PM
AH-HA the FlatEarthTeddyBug is back from the 4th edge of flat earth‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️😂😂😂🥸🥸🥸🥸🤣🤣🤣
TeddyBug, why don’t you just tell us about the Star Trek type creatures you slew and tossed over the edge of the flat earth that were holding your little mermaid🧜♀️captive⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️🥸🥸
Give the teaching CULTS enough rope (let them >attempt< to prove there MANMADE doctrine) and they will hang themselves in FOOLISH contradictions and outright confusion of their very OWN CULT beliefs they worship, that is the writings of MODERN apostate men, that disagrees with PAST Prophets and Apostles - FROM THE BIBLE! 
Folks DO NOT ADJUST YOUR TV SET, THIS IS AN ACTUAL HORROR CONTRADICTION SHOW of twisting Scripture but ONLY from between the ears of CULTISTrsvp (and 'bro' tinyfaithdavid's) spinning, wobbling, and tilting sphere shaped EMPTY heads, very much like their BELIEF in his spinning, wobbling, and tilting earth they WORSHIPS FROM ROME, apart from the truth in Scripture!!!
