Author	Thread: The Wrath of God
Admin	The Wrath of God Posted : 9 Sep, 2009 04:11 PM This is something few Christians want to think about, but really, what is there to fear? We're already saved, but I think we should praise God for this attribute because otherwise, justice would never be dealt. The old puritans used to focus on God's wrath more than His love, because they had to realize just how wicked they were. Not only that, but we shouldn't just love God for one thing, but for His complete character. The problem I think is that many people (not all) think of God's love as tolerance. God is a holy God and does not tolerate wickedness... Can a loving God not move against evil? Absolutely not; and in a sense, God's wrath against evil is loving because it rids the burden that His good creation has to bear. We already know the infinite depth that God's love can go, but few of us are willing to dwell on the reality of the terror of God's wrath. I have noticed that most people who hate to hear about this attribute are often backsliders or unsaved... Really, I used to be one of those people. Actually, I still backslide sometimes so I'm still in this group; but what I tell other people in regards to Biblical truths is what I tell myself. I realize that very few people talk about this issue, and someone has to, right? You know all those nifty sayings that God hates the sin and not the sinner? Well it's not Biblical; and God hates the sinner, not just the sin. How much sense does it make to say that God judges an action? God IS love, but what else is He? Hmm... "For our God is a consuming fire." - Hebrews 12:29 (KJV) Some people like to say that this is all Old Testament stuff, but their assertion is inaccurate because God is the same forever. "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." - Hebrews 13:8 (KJV) People often take God's great love for great tolerance, and can take advantage of it... Yes, God is rich in mercy, but do you really want to abuse the privileges? If someone saved you from falling off a cliff would you act in animosity towards that person? Furthermore, when you extract one attribute out of God, and don't have a Biblical balance revering His other attributes, His character is tarnished... What is love without hatred? What would it be? You also diminish the value of God's love when you ONLY talk about it and not His wrath. What about the cross? Do you even know what happened? Jesus Christ drank the cup of the wrath of God for US! That is LOVE, but you can't just ignore the part you don't want to hear. "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand." - Isaiah 53:10 (KJV) - - - "I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not." - Isaiah 66:4 (KJV) "Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices." - Proverbs 1:31 (KJV) "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness." - Romans 1:18 (KJV) "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28 (KJV) "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat." - Matthew 7:13 (KJV) "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." - Revelation 20:10 (KJV) "He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light." - Psalm 49:19 (KJV) "Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished: but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered." - Proverbs 11:21 (KJV) "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." - Matthew 5:29 (KJV) "Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup." - Psalm 11:6 (KJV) "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment." - 2 Peter 2:4 (KJV) "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." - Matthew 25:41 (KJV) "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb." - Revelation 14:10 (KJV) "Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them." - Psalm 55:15 (KJV) "Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied." - Proverbs 27:20 (KJV) "Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction." - Psalm 73:18 (KJV) "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." - Matthew 7:19 (KJV) "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." - John 3:18 (KJV) "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." - John 3:36 (KJV) "According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence." - Isaiah 59:18 (KJV) "For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire." - Isaiah 66:15 (KJV) "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." - Psalm 5:5 (KJV) "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day." - Psalm 7:11 (KJV) "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God." - Revelation 19:15 (KJV) "Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them." - Ezekiel 8:18 (KJV) "I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment." - Isaiah 63:3 (KJV) "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction." - Romans 9:22 (KJV) "And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire." - Isaiah 33:12 (KJV) "And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh." - Isaiah 66:24 (KJV) "And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day." - Deuteronomy 29:28 (KJV) "Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD." - Ezekiel 22:31 (KJV) "And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy." - Ezekiel 21:31 (KJV) "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." - Romans 9:13 (KJV) "Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name: for they have eaten up Jacob, and devoured him, and consumed him, and have made his habitation desolate." - Jeremiah 10:25 (KJV) - - - Quite a handful to swallow, right? Yeah, God is no pushover which really makes me cherish His love so much more... Just remember there's a Biblical balance in all things. Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	The Wrath of God Posted : 9 Sep, 2009 08:46 PM I agree...mostly...but you're saying God hates all sin and sinners. Then what made him chose his predestined ones over the lost? We're all sinful right? All have fallen short. If we have no choice in our salvation in the first place...whats the point of leaving some to "burn forever" when some that were also sinful get heaven? I'm not trying to be a butt...I really want to know. Why doesn't God use His supreme sovereignty and cause everyone to choose Him? Problem solved! :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	The Wrath of God Posted : 10 Sep, 2009 05:26 AM That,my friend,is a good question?Gods answer,or my best description of it,is that god has control over the created object,.the created object therefore has no right to demand anything from its creator.Its very existence depends on him.Keeping this perspective removes any temptation to have pride in personal acheivement.you could say,well why doesnt god save everyone,or why didnt god make us without the capacity to sin,or why did god create us at all if he knew some would go to hell...........you can do this all day!I struggled with these questions all my life,after intense study,and what I beleive was the holy spirit,the undeniable truth showed itself to me,since god is completly sovereign over everything,the only logical conclusion is,god created beings,including lucifer and his cohorts,knowing that they would rebel,this was his decision,if you beleive in the omniprescence,omniscense,and omnimpotence of our lord,than this is the only conclusion you can draw,god wills evil to exist,god judges that evil,and makes no apologys for it,it is to show his glory,power,majesty over all,and to the elect,wich is us,we are not god,no matter how bad we want to be,when you finally get this,my friends,your pride is truly gone,and pride,of any kind is what god hates the most.I know,some of you disagree,we can argue all day,I will hear your veiws.But my beleif is set in stone.I dont hate you for your veiws.Just try and follow the logic!I have no pride in being right,It doesnt matter to me at all,only eternity with the all knowing all powerful creator christ jesus is important to me! In Christ Steven Post Reply
View Profile History	The Wrath of God Posted : 10 Sep, 2009 05:42 AM oh,and LOTC,I really think god is calling you to the ministry in some fashion,its extremely rare to find someone so young,so intelligent and well spoken,with so much knowledge,and such a heart for god,I hope you pray about it,maybe get a mentor.I checked out Paul Washer on youtube,hes totally intense,not afraid of nothing,too bad you cant hang out with that guy hunh?Thers only one drawback to that life though,your accountability factor goes way up!So make sure its really your calling!And DHTM,whats up bro,even though you like to argue,you really grew on me,I dont beleive arminians are unsaved,just misguided LOL,I have asked every question youve asked,I used to drive my brother crazy.LOL In Christ Steve Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	The Wrath of God Posted : 10 Sep, 2009 08:09 AM LOTC, Very well written and thought out. A good study, but there is one thing that you are forgetting. Christ died for all our sins. There is nothing you can do that will diminish the grace of God. If you truly believe, it is forgiven before you do it. We get caught up in always trying to do the right thing, but if that is the standard, then we are earning our salvation by our own righteousness. Now, we know that is impossible, but we still make ourselves crazy trying to not do anything wrong. The truth is, before we even get out of bed, we have failed in one way or another. God does not hate believers when they sin. He does not hold that sin against us. If that were the case, then He would be a liar because the Bible says we are forgiven. Once we accept Jesus as the Christ, we are joint heirs. We are no longer under the law, but under grace. Think how wonderful that is. Our shortcomings are not held against us. That is not an excuse to sin, if you are saved you no longer have that desire anyway. Blessings, Leon Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	The Wrath of God Posted : 10 Sep, 2009 09:22 AM Yeah...but...the question...why are some saved and some aren't? We're all equally sinful. Shouldn't we all be equally savable then? I know LOTC tried before to say God doesn't love everyone...but I believe the bible says differently...it's very plain...unless you guys want to tell me to burn my bible? Because LOTC's translation thing says the opposite of what my KJV bible says. Anyway. I believe the bible says God loves everyone, and doesn't want anyone to die. I guess we'll just have to disagree again...I think your view is dangerous though. I know a lot of people that have turned away from God because of beliefs like "predestination". Why would they serve a God that burns people for eternity over something He willed in the first place? It makes no sense when you compare it to scripture. I don't think it agrees with the bible. God is a "just" god...but God is also love. God is mercy. If God was ONLY "just", He would have killed Adam and Eve on the spot. The wages for sin is death. Why is He letting this sin that He hates continue? To show His love, or His "justness"? Because He didn't kill Adam and Eve it shows that His mercy/love outweighs His "justness"...."So that all will come to a knowledge of the truth". So...I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall...maybe the wall isn't supposed to come down...I'm not a quitter though! Until you can convince me...but anytime I see this I'll be right there, so watch out dudes! :boxing::boxing: Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	The Wrath of God Posted : 10 Sep, 2009 09:22 AM Yeah...but...the question...why are some saved and some aren't? We're all equally sinful. Shouldn't we all be equally savable then? I know LOTC tried before to say God doesn't love everyone...but I believe the bible says differently...it's very plain...unless you guys want to tell me to burn my bible? Because LOTC's translation thing says the opposite of what my KJV bible says. Anyway. I believe the bible says God loves everyone, and doesn't want anyone to die. I guess we'll just have to disagree again...I think your view is dangerous though. I know a lot of people that have turned away from God because of beliefs like "predestination". Why would they serve a God that burns people for eternity over something He willed in the first place? It makes no sense when you compare it to scripture. I don't think it agrees with the bible. God is a "just" god...but God is also love. God is mercy. If God was ONLY "just", He would have killed Adam and Eve on the spot. The wages for sin is death. Why is He letting this sin that He hates continue? To show His love, or His "justness"? Because He didn't kill Adam and Eve it shows that His mercy/love outweighs His "justness"...."So that all will come to a knowledge of the truth". So...I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall...maybe the wall isn't supposed to come down...I'm not a quitter though! Until you can convince me...but anytime I see this I'll be right there, so watch out dudes! :boxing::boxing: Post Reply
View Profile History	The Wrath of God Posted : 10 Sep, 2009 01:15 PM He said they would die, god is not a liar,They died spiritually,You can be there everytime,but your reasoning ability is limited for some reason you cant follow logical conclusions,Im not sure why,its baffling! Post Reply
View Profile History	The Wrath of God Posted : 10 Sep, 2009 01:20 PM Klmartin,Hes talking about the unregenerate sinner,god chooses to love some.Its his choice,its his creation......can he not make some clay pots for common purposes?This is redundant! Post Reply
View Profile History	The Wrath of God Posted : 10 Sep, 2009 01:24 PM Where did I talk about Calvinism? All I did was talk about the wrath of God. I do believe in limited atonement, but I'm not debating Calvinism on here. If you want to get into a theological debate then fine, but I've already done that in other topics. Romans 9 already proves that there are vessels fit for destruction. We are under mercy and grace, but in the end not everyone will be saved. God knows who will be saved, and furthermore, the knowledge isn't just passive knowledge but an intimate knowledge. In your unconverted state, you can honestly have faith in yourself to seek God, when the Bible says that no one seeks after God? God's wrath is holy and just. Just because we're under grace doesn't mean we just focus on one part of God as if His other attributes don't exist. The Bible says that the inhabitants of Heaven will go and see the majesty of God's wrath on the wicked in Hell and adore Him with great majesty... I forgot the verse, so maybe someone can help me out with that. I refuse to back down just because most people want to be politically correct. Post Reply
View Profile History	The Wrath of God Posted : 10 Sep, 2009 01:34 PM God does NOT love everyone equally. Are you serious? God displays love to mankind in a sense. This is called the doctrine of common grace, and God gives food, breath, life, etc. to everyone on the Earth equally. God loves His children equally, but they are only adopted as sons after they believe in Christ. People like DontHitThatMark go by emotions and not by God's Word. Either it's correct or it's not. Psalm 5:5 is clear. Yes, God loves but He also hates. You think it's ok for you to hate murderers but it isn't for God to? In fact, there's about 30 Scriptures that talk about God hating the sin and the sinner, but only like 10 of them talk about God hating just the sin. Of course, we should be evangelizing to people and loving them by warning them of God's wrath so they'll get saved. If you would only read books of old time, and study the reformation you'd see how much they focused on these things. The modern age is pampered and spoiled, because they'd rather think well of themselves. Post Reply

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