Thread: The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
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The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 08:19 AM
rob the average man of his illusion and you rob him of his happiness at one stroke. -- Henrik Ibsen
how can a heresy be ‘godly’? In short, it can’t. Godliness is about conformity to sound doctrine (Titus 2:1). However, most cases of (reasonably convincing) false teaching will consist of biblical truths that have been skewed in some way. The ingredients are good, but the recipe is incomplete or else has had unwelcome things added, and the result is a theological and practical mess.
Sinless Perfectionism is a doctrine like that. In short, it holds that it is possible for Christians to completely defeat sin in the present life and to live holy lives like Jesus did. At a glance, it makes a lot of sense. Jesus came to save us from sin. He died for our sins on the cross and he sent his Holy Spirit to empower his people to overcome sin and to live obedient, righteous lives in the present (Titus 2:11-14). Christians should have the highest aspirations for living holy lives and rejecting all sin.
Sinless Perfectionism is Unbiblical
However, the Bible also says that ‘If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us’ (1 John 1:8). It speaks of the fact that until the resurrection we must be at war with sinful desires (Galatians 5:16-17). Sin is not an enemy ‘out there’. It’s an enemy within that lives and feeds off our fallen human desires and weaknesses (James 1:13-15). That is why sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.
Sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.
There is a much-repeated (but possibly untrue) story about the 19th century Baptist preacher C.H. Spurgeon in which he debunked perfectionism in a memorable way.[1]
Spurgeon was at a conference where a preacher taught perfectionism in an outspoken manner and even claimed to have reached a state of sinless perfection himself. Spurgeon didn’t challenge him on the spot. Instead, the next morning he poured a pitcher of milk over the man’s head, to which the ‘perfectionist’ responded with the kind of rage and hostility that you’d expect from any sinner. Perfectionism debunked.
We like this story. It’s funny to hear of false teaching being exposed in an amusing way. But I suspect that our reaction is far too smug. It betrays an attitude of self-assurance at precisely the point where we should feel our greatest need. It demonstrates a disturbing lack of concern about the fact that we sin and that our sin is deeply offensive to God. When we remember this then it’s impossible to gleefully say in our hearts: “you stupid perfectionists—of course we all sin!” Are we pleased with the situation? Have we forgotten what sin is? Even though we know that it’s false, shouldn’t we wish that sinless perfectionism were true? Don’t you long to be free of sin?
Spiritual Complacency is Unbiblical Too
If there is an equal and opposite error to sinless perfectionism then it is the sin of spiritual complacency. It’s shrugging your shoulders at sin’s inevitability. It’s acceptance that sin is just part of life, and I’m OK with that. It’s responding to occasions of sin by almost justifying it with glib lines like: “we know that we all sin.” That is a ghastly attitude for a Christian to have and it needs to be challenged.
If there is an equal and opposite error to sinless perfectionism then it’s shrugging your shoulders at sin’s inevitability—sin is just part of life, and I’m OK with that.
It is easy for me to criticise sinless perfectionism because I don’t personally know any Christians who struggle with this doctrine. However, I dare say that I know an entire evangelical culture that is complacent about sin. We’ve forgotten that sin is ugly and grotesque; the complete opposite to righteousness. We’ve forgotten that God’s will for our lives is that we be holy (1 Thessalonians 4:3). We’ve forgotten that what Christians look forward to above all else is Jesus returning to take away our sin completely. We’ve forgotten that anyone who truly desires that day to come will be obsessed with living a holy life now (1 John 3:2-3).
Jesus taught that Christians would ‘hunger and thirst’ after righteousness (Matthew 5:6). Imagine a man who has been deprived of food and water for far too long. Hunger and thirst are not just a thought in his head, but all-encompassing desires that cannot be ignored. His whole body cries out for sustenance! He will never – can never – be satisfied until his desire is satiated. Is our hunger for righteousness like that? That’s what perfectionism (at its best) gets right. It desires to be without sin. That is a profoundly godly ambition, and one that all Christians should share. We recognise that we will inevitably fall short. But we are not happy about it.
so let's stop kidding ourselves shall we? have you ever sinned even once?
Matthew 5:37 says
All you need to say is simply 'Yes' or 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 11:36 AM
A confused repeating clanging cymbol, this deceiving spirit is.
it says:
"However, the Bible also says that ‘If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"
Of course God taught us to not speak of ourselves...
John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
God also declares what to believe in, which is commiting sins, or not commiting sins, the devil is made clear also whioh one it is:
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
"It speaks of the fact that until the resurrection we must be at war with sinful desires (Galatians 5:16-17)."
Putting Ephesians, Coloissians, and Phillipians first, granted strength with all might by HIs Spirit in us, according to His glorious power, and to do all things through Christ who strengthens us..
Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Colossians 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Now, Galatians, and when they are strengthened by Gods power, His Spirit as per Ephesians 3:16, then they shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh, and when they are without that might, they serve sin and FULFIL THE DESIRES OF THE FLESH BEING CHILDREN OF WRATH IN THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH AS TESTIFIED Ephesians 2:3...
Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
"so let's stop kidding ourselves shall we? have you ever sinned even once?"
Remember deceiver, you are fully answered even though you cannot answer a word, how we do not claim anything about ourselves, but God tells us what way to believe in, has its answer for you, NOT NAMED ONCE...
Ephesians 5:3 BUT FORNICATION, and ALL UNCLEANNESS, or COVETOUSNESS ( remember from your other thread covetousness is idolatry), LET IT NOT BE ONCE NAMED ALONG YOU, AS BECOMETH SAINTS;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that NO WHOREMONGER, NOR UNCLEAN PERSON, NOR COVETOUS MAN, WHO IS AN IDOLATOR, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 11:37 AM
Do we notice, that tricks are what the deceiver does, and jesting, which are evidence it is not a saint/believer in Christs righteousness.
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 11:40 AM
John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His Word is not in us.
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 11:43 AM
Mankind is never completely Sinless while in the Flesh.
Christians do not Practice sin. If they are obedient to God's Word .
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 11:50 AM
A confused repeating clanging cymbol, this deceiving spirit is.
it says:
"However, the Bible also says that ‘If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"
Of course God taught us to not speak of ourselves...
John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
God also declares what to believe in, which is commiting sins, or not commiting sins, the devil is made clear also whioh one it is:
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 12:50 PM
A wise man will hear and increase in learning, And a man if understanding will acquire wise counsel.
Proverbs 1:5
Take in RSVP postings, you may learn something ! @ Adam
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 08:43 PM
You still teaching the 'heresy of continual sinning perfectionism' rsvp? Just like your CULT cousin littledavid???
There is something very sinful about you two, rsvp and moondim! What's the LOVE of your particular sin that the Father cannot help you to get victory over??? I mean really, what is this favorite sin you keep doing everyday or weekly!? Really??? You two CONFUSED wanna be 'christians' and how can you be 'saints' at His coming if you are continuing to live in sin, as you LOVE to keep saying you will and are a continual sinner???
Here let me help you to understand your contradictions between your ears, from your eyes!
Adam has already shown the context of 1 John 3:6-10 above and Moon singles out John 1:10....
John 1:10 'If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His Word is not in us.'
And so does John 1:10 contradict 1 John 3:9 below????????????????
1 John 3:9 'Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.'
ITS SO OBVIOUS ISN"T IT? Another words if WE SAY WE HAVE NEVER SINNED (and NOBODY YET on this forum is saying they have NOT sinned in the past! GOT IT NOW? GEESH! ) EVER, then we are LIARS and calling YHWH, 'Him a liar' and THEREFORE His WORD (The Messiah now flesh!) is NOT in us! Does it not get any easier to understand 'wanna be Christians' rsvp and moondim??? You getting any CLUES yet??? AND THAT is ONLY TWO examples from Scripture! GEESH!
Sooooo rsvp! KNOCK OFF the YAHless 'heresy' of continual sinning perfectionism you keep teaching!!! OK??? I know I KNOW, you want us to believe the more we DAILY sin the MORE PERFECT and RIGHTEOUS we are but as you say it 'is Unbiblical' !!!
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 08:48 PM
Moon posts - 'Take in RSVP postings, you may learn something ! @ Adam'
Take in WHAT Moon? The FALSE NON BIBLICAL GARBAGE DOCTRINE from WANNA BE theo rsvp??? Its real simple moondim, if you want to keep on sinning, more power to you and your 'god' satan you serve! OK? But don't assume everyone else LOVES DAILY sin like you do! Got it!?
I mean really, what is this favorite sin you keep doing everyday or weekly!? 
Really??? 
You two CONFUSED wanna be 'christians' and how can you be 'saints' at His coming if you are continuing to live in sin, as you LOVE to keep saying you will and are a continual sinner??? 
and Moon singles out John 1:10.... 
) EVER, then we are LIARS and calling YHWH, 'Him a liar' and THEREFORE His WORD (The Messiah now flesh!) is NOT in us! Does it not get any easier to understand 'wanna be Christians' rsvp and moondim??? 
AND THAT is ONLY TWO examples from Scripture! GEESH! 
but as you say it 'is Unbiblical' !!!
Got it!?