Thread: So did Paul quote from peg and philosophers? Yes he did but
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So did Paul quote from peg and philosophers? Yes he did but
Posted : 25 Feb, 2021 08:06 AM
Paul quoted Menander in the book of Acts and in 1 Corinthians. He quoted Epimenides in the book of Titus. Let’s take a look.
Acts 17:28, “for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.'”
“The first part of verse 28 comes from Cretica by Epimenides, and the second part of the verse from Hymn to Zeus, written by the Cilician poet Aratus. To be sure, both of these lines were directed at Zeus in Greek literature, but Paul applied them to the Creator of whom he spoke.”1
Paul quoted “the first half of the fifth line, word for word, of an astronomical poem of Aratus, a Greek countryman of the apostle, and his predecessor by about three centuries. But, as he hints, the same sentiment is to be found in other Greek poets. They meant it doubtless in a pantheistic sense; but the truth which it expresses the apostle turns to his own purpose—to teach a pure, personal, spiritual Theism.”2
1 Cor. 15:33, “Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.’”
“a current saying, forming a verse in MENANDER, the comic poet, who probably took it from Euripides [SOCRATES, Ecclesiastical History, 3.16].”3
“The words “Bad company ruins good morals” are found in a play by Menander (4th-3rd century B. C.) but may well have become a common saying by Paul’s time.”4
“Evil communications corrupt good manners. An iambic line from the ‘Thais’ of Menander, and perhaps taken by Menander from a play of Euripides. More accurately it means “evil associations corrupt excellent morals.”5
Titus 1:12, “One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”
“Epimenides of Phaestus, or Gnossus, in Crete, about 600. He was sent for to purify Athens from its pollution occasioned by Cylon. He was regarded as a diviner and prophet. The words here are taken probably from his treatise “concerning oracles.” Paul also quotes from two other heathen writers, ARATUS (Ac 17:28) and MENANDER (1 Co 15:33), but he does not honor them so far as even to mention their names.6
“A prophet of their own; viz. Epimenides, a native either of Phæstus or of Cnossus in Crete, the original author of this line, which is also quoted by Callimachus. Epimenides is here called a prophet, not simply as a poet, but from his peculiar character as priest, bard, and seer; called by Plato θεῖος ἀνήρ and coupled by Cicero with Bacis the Boeotian prophet, and the sibyl (Bishop Ellicott); described by other ancient writers as a prophet (Alford).”7
As you can see, Paul the apostle clearly quoted unbelievers. But I must say again that it is not in support of their inspiration or their wisdom. We Christians will sometimes quote to a Mormon, or something out of the book of Mormon, or even the Quran. But in so doing, our goal should be to expose the error of those religious systems and promote the truth of Christianity as revealed in the New Testament.
We are free to study other philosophical and religious systems. But, we should do so with the goal of using the information we have to better equip ourselves, other Christians, and expose the error of false systems of thought.
2 Cor. 10:5, “We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.”
So did Paul quote from peg and philosophers? Yes he did but
Posted : 25 Feb, 2021 09:31 AM
Now the purpose is to undermine biblical authority, by somehow relating the mentioning of poets, and Philosophers, to be interesting enough for us to study them.
"Paul quoted “the first half of the fifth line, word for word, of an astronomical poem of Aratus, a Greek countryman of the apostle, and his predecessor by about three centuries." say 300 bce....
Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
740 bce Isaiah began writing.
609 bce Jeremiah began writing.
3-400 years, before the above quoted poets wrote something, it was shared in our world, from God, to Isaiah and Jeremiah how the Lord fills Heaven and earth, the Heaven being His throne, and the earth, where man lives, is the Lord God's footstool..
Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
Jeremiah 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.
Now, the scene in Acts 17, tells us simply, how the Philosophers of where Paul was at, were held in ignorant worship, and began by speaking about what knowledge God had shared to this world, how God made the world and all things, being Lord of Heaven and earth ( remember the Lord said He fills Heaven and earth ) and this then begins to be explained how the way to understand when the light ( of Christ died and risen for us ) now shines, through Apostle Paul, that God then wont be in man made temples ( as God made all Himself) to NOW SEEK THE LORD, ( their philosophy and poets is limited in IGNORANCE SO NEVER SOUGHT OR COULD SEEK THAT WAY ANYTHING )
In Him we live, as they knew of their own poets, and as the Hebrews knew for hundreds of years before those philosophical poets. Who also thought they can make godheads out of gold, ( they had limited borrowed knowledge from what God had sent to the Hebrews)
They as testified twice below, WERE IN IGNORANCE, and were commanded to REPENT OF THAT WRONG INFORMATION, AS THE ONLY TRUE KNOWLEDGE IS CHRIST RISEN FROM THE DEAD..
Acts 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
“Evil communications corrupt good manners. An iambic line from the ‘Thais’ of Menander, and perhaps taken by Menander from a play of Euripides. More accurately it means “evil associations corrupt excellent morals"
Menander, about 300 bce.
Proverbs, a long time before any Greek play writers, shows in practical teaching sense, how evil communications are made to entice man, and how God exhorts us to not walk with them, but to refrain from them..
Proverbs 1:10 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
11 If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:
13 We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:
14 Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:
16 For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.
That knowledge of the Lord God exhorting man to not be corrupted by evil and temptation, was shared in all the world through the Hebrews, and that is why Greeks sought to see Jesus:
John 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.
20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:
21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
Then, Apostle Paul to THE WORLD OF THE GENTILES, taught all this world (including Greeks now, remembering Greeks seek after " wisdom" of this world 1 Corinthians 1:22) now are instructed how in Adam ( greek wisdom and poet philosophy) all DIE, but in the wisdom of God ( through Christ ONLY ) ALL LIVE..
1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
All other communication does corrupt, ( as God in numerous places appealed in the scriptures for man to not hear ) and for man to AWAKE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS AND SIN NOT, is the knowledge of God the shameful greek philosophy is without..
1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
"he does not honor them so far as even to mention their names.6
“A prophet of their own; viz. Epimenides" "the original author of this line"
Lucifer is quoted by name, but not for good, what wisdom these antichrists have..
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Titus 1, exhorts us to not turn to men, as that turns man from the truth. Yet the antichrists want precisely that, and do not recognize the irony, how lucifer was just quoted from above in Isaiah 14, not be be studied about, or we impressed he was quoted, ( how obviously evil is the antichrist wisdom ) but to know all who hear these evil ways will go to the pit with the devil..
Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
So did Paul quote from peg and philosophers? Yes he did but
Posted : 25 Feb, 2021 01:18 PM
He almost never does. He picks out stuff looking for a reason to disagree. Missing the stuff that actually makes the post correct. It seems he is here intending to just fight.
So did Paul quote from peg and philosophers? Yes he did but
Posted : 25 Feb, 2021 01:26 PM
Pick this out, how we were told there will be mockers in these last times walking after their own ungodly lusts:
Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Yes, hypocritical mockers in feasts...
Psalm 35:16 With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth.
Sporting themselves with their own deceiving s while they feast with you, spots and blemishes they are and that cannot cease from sin..
2 Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
So did Paul quote from peg and philosophers? Yes he did but
Posted : 25 Feb, 2021 02:31 PM
the Bible warns against strife and reproves those who cause it: “It is to one’s honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel” (Proverbs 20:3; see also Proverbs 18:6 and 22:10).
The cause of strife is underlying sin: “What is causing the quarrels and fights among you? Don’t they come from the evil desires at war within you?” James 4:1,
So did Paul quote from peg and philosophers? Yes he did but
Posted : 25 Feb, 2021 11:47 PM
I read on one of the silly opinions of that article, how Apostle Paul must have studied the poets words, to be able to quote them.
Totally erring opinion by not knowing the scriptures of the Lord.
Preaching any other Gospel means they are accursed.
Paul certified to us, how he neither received it of man, nor was taught it, it came only by revelation of Jesus Christ ( who reveals all to the Apostles without them studying)..
John 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Now, I do not know if you two mockers are reading his, but somebody might.
Did you actually read the bible, the word of God, wholly, before you pick out the bits you constantly want to challenge, to give all your private little interpretations about, that you constantly invent your new threads ?
Because that is where you have gone very wrong. To question people if they read your adding to scripture, when the commandment of God is against the antichrist who choose fables and reject the word of God as God predicted, and to have to rebuke these with all longsuffering is obviously why someone has to be on a site like this when they prove they are opposed to Gods word they constantly try to take away from..
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
If you had believed in Jesus Christ, you would meditate WHOLLY on His doctrine, not your own..
John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
1 Timothy 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Psalm 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psalm 119:148 Mine eyes prevent the night watches, that I might meditate in thy word.
Proverbs 6:21 Bind them continually upon thine heart, and tie them about thy neck.
22 When thou goest, it shall lead thee; when thou sleepest, it shall keep thee; and when thou awakest, it shall talk with thee.
23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
So did Paul quote from peg and philosophers? Yes he did but
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 06:10 AM
joy: of course Paul being a Roman citizen would have studied the poets..... nothing silly about that!... furthermore.........
Verses 24-31 of chapter 17 clarify Paul's use of the quotation in declaring the gospel of repentance to the Athenians. When he cites the saying that man is God's offspring, Paul employs the words in light of God's self-revelation in the Old Testament. Mankind was created in the image and likeness of God, as revealed in Genesis 1 :26-27. Paul does not give the phrase "for we are indeed His offspring" the meaning which Stoics do; rather, he uses it to preach that God abhors idolatrous worship. Paul had stated earlier in his speech that God does not "live in shrines made by man" (24). After quoting Aratus the apostle says that the Deity is not "like gold, or silver, or stone" (25).
(25). Surely Paul has in mind the second commandment here, as stated, for example, in Leviticus 26:1 "you shall make for yourselves no idols and e rect no graven image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land." The Stoics had rightly reasoned that if mankind is the offspring of God, then the living God cannot be represented by an inanimate object. Paul himself writes elsewhere that God's eternal power and deity are visible in creation (Romans 1 :20).
And in yet another context the apostle restates in general terms what he says specifically to the Athenian populace in Acts 17: "What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, 'I will live in them and move among them' (2 Corinthians 6:16)." Thus on the Areopagus Paul points out that the Athenians had exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man.
Verses 24-31 also makes clear that Paul does not adopt the Stoic theology of a guiding principle as expressed by Aratus; the apostle depicts God as the Creator, whose person is real. In verse 25 the missionary reminds his listeners that God is the creator of the universe, who has no need of human idolatrous adoration. Here Paul may have in mind Psalm 50:7-15, where the Lord states that He does not require sacrifices from mortals, for all the world and everything in it is His by virtue of His work of creation
And to underscore the personal quality of the true God Paul states that God has "overlooked" the times of ignorance (30), "commands" all men to repent (31), since He has fixed a day when He "will judge" (31) the world by Christ whom He "has appointed" (31). Thus the apostle in no way identifies with Stoic or Epicurean theology, but declares the God who is Creator and Judge.............. Thus the apostle in no way identifies with Stoic or Epicurean theology, but declares the God who is Creator and Judge.
of course Paul being a Roman citizen would have studied the poets..... nothing silly about that!... furthermore......... 