dear folks, i have my answer but since it seems as if theres a few differnet opinions about tongues bein a gift even amongst my fellow pentecostols.. id like to hear other folks opinions on this.. so do you believe tongues are a gift?
Yeap, I sure would say so ole cattle. It is identified with the other gift in 1st Corinthians 12. But Paul does also point out to hold onto the best gifts, the most important ones which are which he lists in order of importance in verse 28 of that chapter. So, all in all, I would think that tongues is a gift, but not as important as the other gifts because it is listed last in that list. Lets all remember gifts are not to pride ourselves in, but to be as signs to the unsaved of this world. God Bless.
Tongues is a gift; and very few people possess it. 1 Corinthians 14 makes this point clear. I went to a charismatic church for a little while, and it never bothered me that people desired the gift or even that none of them possessed this mystic prayer language, despite their incoherent babbling.
It's kind of like the other mistake the charismatics make on confusing divination for prophesy.
Before anyone gets upset, there are many things I love about my charismatic brothers (for any sexist people out there, the ladies were not excluded from that statement). However, their coveting of showy spiritual gifts can lead them to make some very unBiblical choices. Afterall, who hasn't had a charismatic brother offer to intercede for him that the Lord would open up a Spiritual Tonuge?
Another point to make is that if one possesses the gift of speaking in tongues, one should pray to understand what they are saying. Just praying without fullly understanding or acknowledgeing what it means doesn't make any sense at all.
Yeah, as you stated, speaking in tongues has nothing to do with prophecy, as they are totally seperate things. Although, as Paul stated the gift above every other gift we should hold on to is the gift of love, we should seek charity(i.e. love) above all things.
There is going to be disagreement over this between the Pentecostals and non-Pentecostals.
There are two types of tongues - tongues for the congregation, which is a gift and is to be complemented by another gift - Interpretation of Tongues. Most non-Pentecostals get confused and think that this is the only kind of tongues there are. It is true that this particular gift is rare.
However, the other kind of tongues is a prayer language for the edification of the individual alone and it is the evidence of being baptised in the Holy Spirit. It is through tongues that one is able to "pray in the spirit" and it is not a "gift" but an anointing of power and it is intended for ALL Christians, as spoken of in Mark 16:17.
"And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues ... "
I once witnessed to a charismatic at the charismatic church I used to attend here. He opened our discussion by condescending on the beliefs of Southern Baptists as it pertained to faith in the workings of the Holy Spirit.
(As an aside, I grew up in Bible centric Southern Baptist church, in a line of Southern Baptist ministers stretching back to my great great grandfather.
Also, as interesting point, there are no SBC churches in Seattle; so, I'm not sure on what basis he claimed knowledge.)
I listened. I know that are some Southern Baptists who views on this subject are warped by their prejudice against charismatic dogma, i.e. they're motivated to believe that tongues must not exist based solely on the misuse of charismatics in they know. However, I also know what is preached on the subject.
So, he brought up a famous line of defense, stating that if we pray with faith to God in the name of Jesus that the Lord will grant us spiritual blessing for His name's sake. As he did, I nodded in agreement and let my friend know I was praying for a Ferari. He was immediately insulted at what he perceived as a greedy prayer. So, I let him know that the teachings of the charismatic church on tongues as a prayer language is the Ferari of praying; and just as God is not impressed with how flashy our mode of transportation is, He's also not limited in hearing, understanding, or answering our prayers.
I won't usually go so far as to forbid anyone to pray in what they think are tongues in my presences for the simple reason that God hears their heart when I hear their nonsense. To make this a little more clear, I think in words; but I dated a girl who thought in symbols. For her, if she could develop the right symbols in her mind, then understanding and communication fell out naturally; but if I spoke in words for which she lacked the symbols, then communication was impossible. In the same way, most of us pray in words; however, most charismatics are unwittingly trained to pray in emotions. It's kind of beautiful when you look at it this way. (Or at least, I thought it was beautiful when God explained it to me this way.)
May the Lord keep each of us safe from false understanding; and may He continue to guide us into living, joyful obedience to His law.
someone pentecostol had said to me that tongues was not a gift.. but i say tongues is a gift..
i do believe that all tongues are a gift from GOD. ya surely didnt teach yourself how to speak in tongues hehe yet it is the HOLY SPIRIT in you that makes this possible..
1 corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
this verse is speakin of the gifts and the gift of tongues is in there.. and if youll look closely at verse 7 where do they all come from.. they are manifested by the SPIRIT given to each one for the profit of all.. amen
1 corinthians 4:-11 4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
dear folks,,,, my young friend bushman, incoherent babbling? my young friend you should be very careful how you mock the gifts of the SPIRIT..
also the preacher was speaking about asking for the spiritual gifts.. not worldly gifts such as a ferari. as we can see in this verse tells us we are to earnestly desire the best gifts. so asking in prayer for a spiritual gift is not wrong..
1 corinthians 12:31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.
though here we are told even a more excellent way..
to pray for the greatest gift of all.. the gift of love. that you will have nothin but love in your heart.. amen..
and my young friend bruthaman, if one is praying in their private prayer language to GOD. by way of praying in tongues.. dont you know that the HOLY SPIRIT will be lookin out for your best interist and praying thus.. who knows more of what you need than GOD inside of you.. so do we really need to understand everything ?
The problem with referring to all tongues as a "gift" is that it is then assumed that it is arbitary. As I stated above, the gift of tongues mentioned in 1 Cor is a specific species of tongues which is intended for the community, not for the believer because it is supposed to be interpreted as well, another gift. This type of tongues is rare (in my experience) and is intended for someone speaking loudly to everyone in the congregation, followed by another (or the same) giving an interpretation.
The other kind of tongues is the evidence of being baptised in the Holy Spirit and this is not intended for the congregation but for the edification of the individual alone. This is something all believers should have. God does not show favoritism and those that seek it seem to always obtain it, often by the laying on of hands or in revival meetings.
Now, I think I understand what you are saying that it is a gift in the sense that it is by God's good grace and will only that we obtain it - we cannot pretend or force it - but the word "gift" is a misleading word and can lead to confusion because of the concept of the Spiritual Gifts in 1 Cor12-14. It is distinct from the spritual gifts.
I know when I first began to speak in tongues I was very confused because there is so much misunderstanding and false teaching on this subject and I nearly fell away. So it is important to clearly discern.
There are the Spiritual Gifts and then there is speaking in tongues as evidence of being baptised in the Holy Spirit.
Bush256 - let me address your comments briefly if I may.
First of all, there are certainly abuses in some Pentecostal/Charismatic circles. Sure. Are there not many abuses in Southern Bapstist circles? Of course there are! Regardless, we do not determine truth based on Guilt By Association for that is a well-known logical fallacy. We could point to the early church and see that even Peter was led astray at one point that Paul had to publically rebuke him but certainly Peter was still very much ordained by Christ as an apostle.
Now if tongues is nonsense then we have some serious problems as Christians. First, because all of the apostles spoke it and Paul said "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you" (1 Cor 14:18). If tongues is nonsense, what does that tell us about our beloved New Testament, half of which was written by a tongues speaker? Can a person that speaks nonsense write bythe Spirit? Remember, a house divided against itself will not stand!
Second, we are told that the very last words Christ ever spoke before His ascension was the following words, "And these signs shall accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues" (Mk 16:17).
Now these words cannot simply be ignored. The words prior to them speak of the Great Commission which is not ignored so why these words? Perhaps because we have been inundated with a modern, sceptical, scientific mindset that is uncomfortable with concepts like tongues, healing, and deliverance from demons? Yet Christ spent so much time doing this very thing.
To me - this is very serious - it says "THESE SIGNS SHALL ACCOMPANY THOSE WHO BELIEVE"
I don't know how then one can deny tongues and call it nonsense.
I'm very sorry you read it that way. I've never called the Spiritual Gift of Tongues nonsense. What I had thought I had stated clearly was that the practice at charismatic churches is to speak nonsense while praying with very sincere emotion.
However, you also touched a neat bit of heresy. Tongues is the Biblical Spiritual Gift. Any extrabiblical interpretation is instantly heresy. No if's, and's, or but's about it. When the Bible speaks of tongues as a gift, it never means some mystical and personal prayer language.
Does that mean every uninformed person who prays in phonems has sinned? To the contrary, Romans 14 warns us that every worshiping Christ and not commit known sin is approved by God and is under His authority.
However, to place an extra burden on people approved by God is the direct violation of that same passage. When someone says "everyone" prays in tongues, they miss both Paul's statement in Romans 14 but also the one in 1 Corinthians 14.
Specifically verse 5."Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying."
The very clear meaning is that not everyone does prophesy nor does everyone speak in tongues. If speaking in tongues were a guarantee or mark of salvation, then Paul wouldn't need to wish that everyone did. Paul knows that God is faithful; and if God had said the redeemed would all speak in tongues, then He alone would make it happen. If it had to be "learned" then God would teach us how in the Bible.
Instead, you have a group of people who sprang up in the last century or two who took a new meaning on classic verses. While each person who practices private worship is welcome to their private practices, the public demand for others to employ these same obscure interpretations is as preposterous as it is unscriptural.
There are many things I love that God taught me while I was at the charismatic church. However, it makes me sad when modern Judiazers rise up and tell people "You might be saved, but a truer form of Christianity means you should ". It's on par with those who teach you must be unsaved if you enjoy alcohol or dance.
If you want to talk about speaking the tongue of angels, every Christian hears the voice of the Holy Ghost. Some even hear with words. Though, in all of it, Paul warns to test the voice because Satan often masquerades as an angel of light.
For anyone put off by this, please don't fail to hear me say this. I think the practice of the alleged speaking in tongues done in the majority of charismatic churches is beautiful. While they might be completely mistaken about what they're doing, that does not negate the beauty of what is actually being done. What the charismatics attempt by uttering nonsensical phonemes is precisely what David with words in the psalms when he poured his heart out to God; and what was said of David for it?
