Author Thread: Ephesians 5
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Ephesians 5
Posted : 13 Nov, 2020 10:00 AM

Hello, friends! Sierra, here.



Let's talk about Ephesians 5.



We ALL know the chapter - it's one of the biggest chapters used against "feminism" so let's break it down.



1. There were no breaks, titles, chapters, or verses in the original letters that Paul wrote to the church of Ephesus. It was a continuous thought.



2. We have to remember that Paul was writing a *letter*. He was responding to a letter with questions, concerns, and problems that he was offering specific advice for (those situations). That is why Paul seems to contradict himself by having women like Junia, Priscilla, and Phoebe as equal church leaders/partners who did preach and teach men while saying to Timothy "I do not permit a woman to speak" (when *obviously* he did). (I will talk about this in a post this evening).



3. Ephesians 5 - in verse 21 Paul tells the church to "submit yourselves one to another". So, first, he establishes a NEW concept of "mutual submission" where that had never been taught before. In a culture where women were seen as commodities and bartering chips between men, Paul was saying that Christian men should be treating the women as their equals - it was revolutionary.



4. Now, let's talk about verses 22-32. In the first part, Paul talks about husbands being the "head" of their wives. Marg Mowczko has done an incredible job explaining this so I will defer to a blog on her website on this subject that you can (and should) read here: https://margmowczko.com/pauls-main-point-in-eph-5_22-33/



In the rest of this portion of Paul's letter he tells wives to submit to their husbands and husbands to love their wives. Now, Paul telling women to submit to their husbands was nothing new - women were already doing this. It was cultural norm. However, Paul telling husbands to love their wives, THAT was new! Paul was paving the way for marital equality. In that culture, men didn't HAVE to love their wives - again, women were used as bartering chips between men. Most women were basically sold to the highest bidder from their father to their new husband. Also, these were young teen girls - not grown women. These were 14 year old girls marrying men old enough to be their grandfather. In *our* modern culture that would be unheard of - another thing that was normal in their culture but we don't do in this modern culture. In our culture, that man would be a pedophile. So, before we go off on a trail about how "culture didn't matter, Paul was creating doctrine" - it absolutely DOES matter. What was happening in that time, how they lived, etc MATTERS when we are trying to understand why Paul said the things he said. But, ANYWAYS...Paul commanding men to love their wives was a huge thing for that culture where men didn't have to love their wives and could divorce them for things like being barren (though they never considered that maybe it could also be the husband's issue).



5. So, what does "love" look like?



Love is sacrificial - we see this talked about as a theme throughout the New Testament, especially in the life of Jesus and Paul's letters. According to Paul in 1 Corinthians 13: Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.



If husbands treated their wives in the above mentioned ways they would absolutely be walking in mutual submission, considering their wives as their equals, etc.



Love is God's greatest commandment - love God, others, and yourself. When we truly love others we cannot see ourselves as better than, higher than, or superior to another human - we are all made in God's likeness.



Can you imagine the waves it must have caused when Paul commanded men to submit to women (see vs 21) and THEN had the audacity to tell men to LOVE THEIR WIVES like Christ loved the church? Woooooo! I bet there were a lot of men who struggled with this - it is a huge change from what they had been used to for centuries.



In Ephesians 5 (written around AD 60), Paul laid the ground work for marital equality. He started paving the way for the work Ezer Rising is doing today - advocating for the equality and inclusion of women in every area of church culture as well as full marital equality.



If you would like to read more about the context of Ephesians 5, here are some fantastic resources:



https://juniaproject.com/paul-turns-headship-head-ephesians-5/



https://juniaproject.com/5-myths-of-male-headship/



https://juniaproject.com/male-authority-implied-bible/



https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/priscilla-papers-academic-journal/biblical-model-marriage



https://rachelheldevans.com/blog/mutuality-household-codes



https://rachelheldevans.com/blog/aristotle-vs-jesus-what-makes-the-new-testament-household-codes-different?fbclid=IwAR0nu9pm5vATI8BbnmTd-uFUaoGVVyrlSD-jEWgzC2dPCcdKK6olX_bvnyw



https://margmowczko.com/category/equality-and-gender-issues/equality-in-marriage/



- Sierra <3



https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1303209296691672&id=436254360053841

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Moonlight7

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Ephesians 5
Posted : 13 Nov, 2020 10:56 AM

Ephesians 5:22-33



Reference



Marriage like Christ and the church.



Man is head of the wife.

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ADAM7777

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Ephesians 5
Posted : 13 Nov, 2020 11:53 AM

I like when people show they have no spiritual understanding.



For all the people who are not one in Christ, they do not love the way of Heaven, how the one who sits highest will be the least, and how those who are last will be first.



If a person was one with Christ, and he was given a good gift from God to find a wife, God guides them Himself, and they find there way together then. If a person insist he is the head over the lady, God will thrust him down, he wont feel like a head at all, that's chastening, to take away all pride. If the person is not corrected by God, he dies in his pride but felt he ruled and sat high and mighty in his life.



For people who also are not guided by the Lord, but feel threatened, they are not in the fear of the Lord, to not fear what man can do to them, thy fear the man even though the person really could do nothing to them compared to what God is going to do to all who do not fear Him.



Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.



Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

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Ephesians 5
Posted : 13 Nov, 2020 12:03 PM

Ephesians 5:21-33

And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

For wives, this means submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of his body, the church. As the church submits to Christ, so you wives should submit to your husbands in everything.

For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God’s word. He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault. In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man who loves his wife actually shows love for himself. No one hates his own body but feeds and cares for it, just as Christ cares for the church. And we are members of his body.

As the Scriptures say, “A man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.” This is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way Christ and the church are one. So again I say, each man must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.





You cannot leave out verse 21 just because it doesn't suit your narrative. And, really the passage goes until 6:9.



Children, obey your parents because you belong to the Lord, for this is the right thing to do. “Honor your father and mother.” This is the first commandment with a promise: If you honor your father and mother, “things will go well for you, and you will have a long life on the earth.”

Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger by the way you treat them. Rather, bring them up with the discipline and instruction that comes from the Lord.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. As slaves of Christ, do the will of God with all your heart. Work with enthusiasm, as though you were working for the Lord rather than for people. Remember that the Lord will reward each one of us for the good we do, whether we are slaves or free.

Masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Don’t threaten them; remember, you both have the same Master in heaven, and he has no favorites.





The whole passage is about all Christians submitting to each other. All Christians, not just wives to their husbands. But, also husbands to their wives, children to their parents, parents to their children, slaves to their masters, and masters to their slaves.

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ADAM7777

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Ephesians 5
Posted : 14 Nov, 2020 01:07 AM

when two are joined by the Lord they are one, one flesh together.



when one spirit is joined to the Lord, they are one Spirit together



each one goes to judgement to answer for what we all did and what we spoke.



for men, if they believed in Christ it was to speak the cross, and to show the cross in their lives, to be a man made in the image of God, as God wants to show that, to show Himself.



for a woman, commanded to be under obedience, as God also shows His works through her, how she was made from the man, and the man made first(this is where submittance comes from ) for everything to be in Gods correct order.



1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.



Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;



Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:



Its easy to submit to one another, but righteousness is in believing all the ways and testimonies of the Lord God, submittance for a woman to a man is not really submitting to a man, it is her being under obedience to God.

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Ephesians 5
Posted : 14 Nov, 2020 09:39 AM

Do know what was made before Man? Fish.

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ADAM7777

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Ephesians 5
Posted : 14 Nov, 2020 11:07 AM

Spirit is made before flesh, man is made in Christ before fish, do not forget Jesus is not the first man born on earth, but is the first Spirit and the last..



Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:



Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

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Teddyhug^

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Ephesians 5
Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 09:49 AM

Ivy posts - 'Do know what was made before Man? Fish'



Really Ivy, Fish are made in the image of YHWH, REALLY IVY! Is that your point or can you unpack that for us?



Do FISH have a conscience, can they reason things out, can they have or give up salvation? Did YHWH ever say he took the rib of a male fish to make a female fish?



So where did women come from, man was first to give 'birth' to women! Kind of funny yet in a way its true?



Look Ivy, the feminist movement is all about the destruction of the family and its purpose as YHWH intended it. OK? You see man answers in 'marriage' (covenant) to YHWH as 'head' of man, then woman in 'marriage' (covenant) to man as 'head' of woman in family! Of course man should love her just as YHWH loves His Church, directed and commanded by men according to YHWH's instructions!



You beginning to see the dangers in your beliefs?

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Teddyhug^

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Ephesians 5
Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 09:53 AM

correction! Should state - commanded TO men!

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Teddyhug^

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Ephesians 5
Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 10:11 AM

Ivy, maybe you could be mistaken in understanding Ephesians chapter 5,6 because of your religion of 'feminism' that you believe in, which is the destruction of family as YHWH intended?



Look what is taking place in verses 1 thru 21 when Paul is talking about respect and love, which is also submissiveness to fellow mankind which includes of COURSE women! No where does he talk of >>>family<<< in those verses but the Church and how mankind is to behave! Then note starting in verse 22 he speaks of roles in >>>family members,<<< in how women are to be submissive to husbands and children are to obey their parents (6:1-4) with man head of the home and even servants back then obeyed men, head of the household in verse 5.



Ever looked at Ephesians chapter 5,6 like that before Ivy???

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Teddyhug^

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Ephesians 5
Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 10:15 AM

GOOD Grief, another self correction, I'm tired and need to go to bed!



Should state - as YHWH had NOT intended!



Nighty night friends, even though its daylight here!

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