The Error of Sinless Perfectionism of ADAM7777 Exposed
Posted : 12 Aug, 2020 10:01 AM
The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism
22/02/2018 | Matthew Payne
How can a heresy be ‘godly’? In short, it can’t. Godliness is about conformity to sound doctrine (Titus 2:1). However, most cases of (reasonably convincing) false teaching will consist of biblical truths that have been skewed in some way. The ingredients are good, but the recipe is incomplete or else has had unwelcome things added, and the result is a theological and practical mess.
Sinless Perfectionism is a doctrine like that. In short, it holds that it is possible for Christians to completely defeat sin in the present life and to live holy lives like Jesus did. At a glance, it makes a lot of sense. Jesus came to save us from sin. He died for our sins on the cross and he sent his Holy Spirit to empower his people to overcome sin and to live obedient, righteous lives in the present (Titus 2:11-14). Christians should have the highest aspirations for living holy lives and rejecting all sin.
Sinless Perfectionism is Unbiblical
However, the Bible also says that ‘If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us’ (1 John 1:8). It speaks of the fact that until the resurrection we must be at war with sinful desires (Galatians 5:16-17). Sin is not an enemy ‘out there’. It’s an enemy within that lives and feeds off our fallen human desires and weaknesses (James 1:13-15). That is why sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.
Sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.
There is a much-repeated (but possibly untrue) story about the 19th century Baptist preacher C.H. Spurgeon in which he debunked perfectionism in a memorable way.[1]
Spurgeon was at a conference where a preacher taught perfectionism in an outspoken manner and even claimed to have reached a state of sinless perfection himself. Spurgeon didn’t challenge him on the spot. Instead, the next morning he poured a pitcher of milk over the man’s head, to which the ‘perfectionist’ responded with the kind of rage and hostility that you’d expect from any sinner. Perfectionism debunked.
We like this story. It’s funny to hear of false teaching being exposed in an amusing way. But I suspect that our reaction is far too smug. It betrays an attitude of self-assurance at precisely the point where we should feel our greatest need. It demonstrates a disturbing lack of concern about the fact that we sin and that our sin is deeply offensive to God. When we remember this then it’s impossible to gleefully say in our hearts: “you stupid perfectionists—of course we all sin!” Are we pleased with the situation? Have we forgotten what sin is? Even though we know that it’s false, shouldn’t we wish that sinless perfectionism were true? Don’t you long to be free of sin?
Spiritual Complacency is Unbiblical Too
If there is an equal and opposite error to sinless perfectionism then it is the sin of spiritual complacency. It’s shrugging your shoulders at sin’s inevitability. It’s acceptance that sin is just part of life, and I’m OK with that. It’s responding to occasions of sin by almost justifying it with glib lines like: “we know that we all sin.” That is a ghastly attitude for a Christian to have and it needs to be challenged.
If there is an equal and opposite error to sinless perfectionism then it’s shrugging your shoulders at sin’s inevitability—sin is just part of life, and I’m OK with that.
It is easy for me to criticise sinless perfectionism because I don’t personally know any Christians who struggle with this doctrine. However, I dare say that I know an entire evangelical culture that is complacent about sin. We’ve forgotten that sin is ugly and grotesque; the complete opposite to righteousness. We’ve forgotten that God’s will for our lives is that we be holy (1 Thessalonians 4:3). We’ve forgotten that what Christians look forward to above all else is Jesus returning to take away our sin completely. We’ve forgotten that anyone who truly desires that day to come will be obsessed with living a holy life now (1 John 3:2-3).
Jesus taught that Christians would ‘hunger and thirst’ after righteousness (Matthew 5:6). Imagine a man who has been deprived of food and water for far too long. Hunger and thirst are not just a thought in his head, but all-encompassing desires that cannot be ignored. His whole body cries out for sustenance! He will never – can never – be satisfied until his desire is satiated. Is our hunger for righteousness like that? That’s what perfectionism (at its best) gets right. It desires to be without sin. That is a profoundly godly ambition, and one that all Christians should share. We recognise that we will inevitably fall short. But we are not happy about it.
Come Lord Jesus!
[1] I suspect this anecdote evolved from an incident that Spurgeon recounted in his autobiography which isn’t nearly as exciting. However, the point is the same: Spurgeon exposed a self-professed “perfectionist” as sinful by driving him to anger. See C.H. Spurgeon, C.H. Spurgeon’s Autobiography: 1. The Early Years (Edinburgh: Banner of Truth, 1962), 229.
The Error of Sinless Perfectionism of ADAM7777 Exposed
Posted : 12 Aug, 2020 10:41 AM
If I understand Romans 7 correctly, sinless perfectionism doesn’t work. Someone claiming sinless perfectionism is saying that Paul wasn’t a follower of Christ. In a English Romans 7 is written in the present tense. I may be understanding it wrong since I don’t know the Greek. If someone understands it from the Greek and the English translation is wrong, please correct me.
The Error of Sinless Perfectionism of ADAM7777 Exposed
Posted : 12 Aug, 2020 11:06 AM
I’m unsure if you’re speaking directly to a specific word concerning its present tense but the particular context of Romans 7 starting in verse 7 speaks obviously to Paul’s life as a believer.
I say “obviously” because some theologians claim Romans 7:7 and on is about Paul’s life “before” becoming a believer. I have a systematic theology text from one such theologian. Nevertheless, when his arguments are compared he doesn’t bring a compelling case to the floor against those holding the opposing view. I think his argument is rather weak if not foolish.
The Error of Sinless Perfectionism of ADAM7777 Exposed
Posted : 12 Aug, 2020 11:14 AM
Please feel to ask for additional clarification because, for me, some theology is just not too easy to understand at first and sometimes for a much longer time!!
The Error of Sinless Perfectionism of ADAM7777 Exposed
Posted : 12 Aug, 2020 11:27 AM
Sorry, I didn’t mean to miss the part about “sinless perfectionism not working”, but you’re correct, it not only doesn’t work, it’s a false teaching.
As for people accusing Paul of not being a follower of Christ, that’s another one for heresy trash-man.
Anti-Paulists continuously make false associations and false accusations against Paul that could never survive the light of even a casual glance at contrary facts and evidences.
The Error of Sinless Perfectionism of ADAM7777 Exposed
Posted : 12 Aug, 2020 11:52 AM
Littlest David: Quiznos never refuted over 4 of his quotes claiming he believes in **SINLESS PERFECTION** and you are the big **LIAR**
QUIZNOS AND ADAM7777 BELIEVE IN THE SATANIC DOCTRINE OF SINLESS PERFECTION AFTER SAVATION???
QUIZNOS QUOTE:
"IF WE SIN ON PURPOSE AFTER WE RECEIVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THERE IS **NO MORE** FORGIVENESS FOR OUR SINS NO MORE SACRIFICING OF CHRIST FOR US???"
AND LITTLEST DAVID DEFENDS THEIR RIDICULOUS SATANIC DOCTRINE OF SINLESS PERFECTION**!!**!!
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
Luke 11:1-4: The **DISCIPLES** asked Jesus, "Lord teach **US** to pray." Jesus replied **TO HIS DISCIPLES**, "When you pray, say: '**FATHER**, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. Give us each day our **DAILY** bread. **FORGIVE US OUR SINS**, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us!'"
James 5:16: **CONFESS YOUR SINS** to each other and pray for each other!!
Revelation 3:19: Jesus says, "Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline, so be earnest and **REPENT**!!" {**OF YOUR SINS**!!}
Hebrews 12:5-11: Do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when He rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those He loves, and He chastens **EVERYONE** HE ACCEPTS AS A SON**!!! Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as His children. For what children are not disciplined by their father {FOR THEIR SINS**}? If you are not disciplined--and everyone undergoes discipline--**THEN YOU ARE NOT LEGITIMATE**, not true sons and daughters at all. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us{FOR OUR SINS!} and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in His holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it!
Galatians 6:1: Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you may also be tempted. Carry each others burdens, and in this way you fulfill the law of Christ!!
The Error of Sinless Perfectionism of ADAM7777 Exposed
Posted : 12 Aug, 2020 01:51 PM
That's it David? That's all you got is this article that is a PAYNE to true righteousness by FAITH??? Really David?
I can blow holes the size that trucks could drive thru in his contradictions just in what you quote! Your a coward David because you cannot put a Bible study together saying otherwise, so you hide under your bed and shove this article out from under it down people's throats! If your not a man of the Bible, then leave it to those who are!
I'm not here to debate with a man that is not on this forum you little chicken weasel! You cannot EVEN answer a simple question of why you believe on a ball shaped earth, when the bible clearly says it has corners! Rev. 7:1!!! So what do you do but play games and distract as you are very frustrated to NOT be able to prove your "ball" shaped earth from the Bible! Correct? I own you on this subject, don't I? Its obvious your propagandized bubba!
So which is David, Jesuit NASA, jesuit pagan schools, iesuit media, jesuit owns the money system called the federal reserve (privately owned)....... OR Just the WORD of YHWH, which He put Himself in the flesh to SPEAK His WORD as well as WRITTEN by His prophets!
The Bible does not have contradictions does it David? The world says "ball" shape earth and the Bible says it has "corners" so which is it David?
The Error of Sinless Perfectionism of ADAM7777 Exposed
Posted : 12 Aug, 2020 01:58 PM
David claims in another thread how proud he is of not much for "AboundingGrace" that he has!
From my 1599 Geneva Bible - Romans 3:23 "21. But now is the righteousness of God made manifest without the Law, having witness of the Law, and of the Prophets, 22. To wit, the righteousness of God by the faith of [z]Jesus Christ, unto all, and upon all that believe. 23. For there is no difference: >>>for all have sinned,<<< and >are deprived< of the [aa]glory of God, Note friends how so called "AboundingGrace" claims no POWER (which is also Grace) to NOT twist what the KJV says to that of his coveted "bishops and Geneva versions" THAT SAY THE SAME THING, yet claims (by opinion) two words changes everything - "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Then so called "AboundingGrace" adds his opinion that makes no sense - "the phrase in the kjv with the word "have" makes the reader think that "have" goes with the last part of the verse. "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Who are YOU to tell us what we think when we read that verse, so called "AboundingGrace"??? And what about "that last part of the verse" you claim changes everything (???) and contradicts the REST (there's your "rest" time Quizzy!) of the Bible, of the POWER of YHWH to KEEP KEEP KEEP you from sinning???
So called "AboundingGrace" once again attempts to pollute the Scriptures when he says - ">>>all continue<<< to fall short and are continually lacking of God's glory. I don't know what the kjv translators intended here. But it is the present tense, >>>we continually fall short of God's glory.<<<
Why not use your common sense and reasoning so that you don't claim contradictions in the Bible with other verses listed at the end of my post below???
KJV - For all have (had-past) sinned (not currently sinning!), and come short (in past times) of the glory of YHWH.
GENEVA - For there is no difference: for all have (had-past) sinned (not currently sinning!), and are deprived (in times past) of the [aa]glory of YHWH,
So where is the difference again in those verses my false teaching friend? Nothing other than your HANG UP on the word "deprived" in your reasoning skills to that of the CONTEXT of the rest of the Bible on the TRUE Righteousness by FAITH verses! Correct? There is a huge difference in meaning between words like "continue" and "continually" to that of the word "deprived" my clueless friend, right? Anyone can look up those definitions with so much of the "AboundingGrace" that you have! LOL!
Good grief so MUCH "AboundingGrace", what kind of abounding grace (weak power) is that you have, from the devil of LIARS like pathetic7744??? Change your name then to "I wish by FAITH I had the abounding POWER of YHWH to tell the truth" There I fixed it for you! Now repent and >>>be<<< (present tense) saved again! At least I hope you have (note the correct past tense here) been (past tense) saved once (in the past) upon a time in your life from your PAST sins anyway?
Here let me help you with your new JW bible translation, when you get it published anyway - cultized romans 3:23 - "For all will "continue" to sin, they just cannot help themselves but to "continually" sin, and THEREFORE they will always come short (but somehow they are righteous anyway living in sin?) of the glory of (powerless?) YHWH. There did I fix it for you false teacher?
1 John 4:4 "Ye are (present tense) of YHWH, little children, and have (present tense) >>>overcome them:<<< (and those sins of past) because greater (not lesser as you claim in your ever "AboundingGrace"/POWER) is >>>He (YHWH's set apart Holy Spirit) that is >>>in you<<< (oh really friends CAN it be the Spirit can get victory over our sins THRU and in us?), than he (satan the accuser, much like others on this forum that work for him) that (presently) is in the (this) world.
BUT BUT BUT John LIED to us you say!? Because you all love your pet sins, that why you THINK he lied! Well lets look at another "liar" that you will claim without saying it directly and call HIM out like all the Scripture that ADAM7777 CONTEXTUALLY gives! Who is that you say?
Matthew 5:48 Yah'shua says - Be (present tense) >>>ye therefore perfect<<< (present and future tense), even as your Father which is in heaven is (always been, we HAD been (all past tense) not perfect THEN) perfect.
BUT BUT BUT no my LOVING Messiah, I don't want to call you a liar but but but pathetic7744, David and others on the forum say we will always sin! So please change your words to "Try to be perfect but I know you cannot by my Fathers set apart powerless Spirit that I had when I walked the earth as an example to you and I promise to change you into a robot one day so that you don't choose to sin anymore, ok? In fact I'm going to change everybody into a ROBOT (like Richard7744 teaches "predestination" as you are forced to be what you are!) rather they like it or not, so they cannot sin and so everyone will have eternal life, you see? Selah!
And there are a TON more verses that teach REAL life Righteousness by the Faith! And WHERE does that POWER come from?
The Righteousness of YHWH by the faith of Yah'shua , said in previous verse 22, MUCH "Abounding (of not much) Grace" left out in the Geneva Bible I listed above for the Pharisee "blind guides" here on this forum!
The Error of Sinless Perfectionism of ADAM7777 Exposed
Posted : 12 Aug, 2020 07:29 PM
Hanging,
It is in the present tense, verse 20, sin DWELLING in me is present tense.
1 Timothy 1 verses 12 - 16
12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service,
13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief;
14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus.
15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.
16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
Verses 12 - 14 Pauls talks about his life being changed.
Verse 15, Most people teach that Paul is talking about himself; but in this verse he is talking about EVERY person being the CHIEF of the Sinful ones, which is in the PRESENT TENSE.
