The truth that sets you free: A person is not saved by the death of Messiah !!!
Posted : 21 Jun, 2020 04:50 AM
Hello everyone;
First what Messiah says about truth and being set free.
John 8 verses 33 - 32
The Truth Will Set You Free
(2 John 1:4-6)
30 As Jesus spoke these things, many believed in Him.
31 So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples.
32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
One of the lies that people have been told is that they are saved by the death of Messiah, this is either because of ignorance or by someone that does not want the truth to be told.
Too many times in this life we hear lies, some lies we can understand them clearly, yet others are so subtle because they are mixed with a bit of truth.
The lies mixed with truth are like the song ' Just a the spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down ',
The reason the medicine goes down is that the sugar hides the awful taste like castor oil, or some cough syrups.
The Word of GOD Almighty is not any different, people can be told lies as well if the lies have a bit of truth.
How many traditions have become ' church ' doctrines, but when we search the Scriptures we find those doctrines to be lies.
How many people believe that GOD Almighty is angry with them when they sin.
When people begin to believe lies, then over time the lies become truth to people, so that when someone comes along and speaks the truth, we then believe that person is lying, especially if people do not study the Word of GOD Almighty on their own.
One of these lies is that believers are saved by the DEATH of Yashua, If this is true than why do so many people have doubts about being saved.
Now let us look to see what GOD Almighty says to us through Paul about this lie.
Romans 5 verses 1 - 11
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners ( sinful ), Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath [of God] through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Verse 1 Justified by FAITH ( not by repenting of sin, confessing sin or being baptized ).
Maybe that is why so many christians have doubts about being saved.
Verse 9 Justified by His blood
Verse 10 Reconciled by His death
Verse 10 SAVED by His life
The blood made atonement for our sins, yet we are saved by Messiah's life, as He lives within each person that believes in Him.
If people are taught how to read, study and to translate the Scriptures, maybe there would be more people seeking truth instead of just wanting to be spoon fed lies.
The truth that sets you free: A person is not saved by the death of Messiah !!!
Posted : 21 Jun, 2020 06:45 PM
**ARE WE ONLY REDEEEMED AND OUR SINS FORGIVEN BY THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST??**
Actually the blood sacrifices of Abel and all the Jews in the Old Testament were only symbolic since we are all saved only by the Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. All blood offerings before the atonement of sins by God alone were just symbolic waiting for the only Divine blood sacrifice that can saves us from our sins/
Hebrews 10:8-10: First He said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor were You pleased with them," although the law required them to be made. Then He said, "Here I am, I have come to do Your will." He sets aside the first **TO ESTABLISH THE SECOND**. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ **ONCE FOR ALL**!!
John 13:34,35: Jesus says, "**A NEW COMMAND** I give you: Love one another **AS I HAVE LOVED YOU**, so you must love one another!" John 15:12,13: "Jesus says, "My command is this: Love each other **AS I HAVE LOVED YOU**. Greater love has no one than this, that **HE LAY DOWN HIS LIFE** for his friends!"
Matthew 26:28: Jesus says, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many **FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS**!"
Galatians 2:18-21: I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me! The life I live in the body, I live by **FAITH** in the Son of God, who loved me and **GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME**!! I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!!
Hebrews 9:12: He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by **HIS OWN BLOOD**, having obtained **ETERNAL REDEMPTION**!
Hebrews 9:22; 26-28: The law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood **THERE IS NO FORGIVENESS**.... But now He has appeared **ONCE FOR ALL** at the end of the ages to do away with sin **BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF**!! Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, and Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people, and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him!!
Leviticus 17:11: God says, "For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make **ATONEMENT** for yourselves on the altar ; it is the **BLOOD** that makes **ATONEMENT** for one's life!"
Ephesians 2:13: But now in Christ Jesus you who were once were far away have been brought near **THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST**!!
Romans 3:21-25: But now a righteousness from God, **APART FROM THE LAW**, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes **THROUGH FAITH** in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by **HIS GRACE** through the **REDEMPTION** that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Him as a **SACRIFICE OF ATONEMENT**, **THROUGH FAITH IN HIS BLOOD**!!
Isaiah 1:18: "Come now, let us reason together," says the Lord. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow!!"
Colossians 1:15-20: He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities, all things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the **HEAD OF HIS BODY, THE CHURCH**; He is the beginning and the firstborn from the dead, so that is **EVERYTHING HE MIGHT HAVE THE SUPREMACY**. For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things **ON EARTH** or things in heaven, by making peace **THROUGH HIS BLOOD**, shed on the cross!!
Colossians 2:13-15: When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you **ALIVE WITH CHRIST**. He forgave us **ALL OUR SINS**, having canceled the written code, with its regulation, that was against us and that stood opposed to us, He took it away, **NAILNG IT TO THE CROSS**!!.
Ephesians 1:3-8; 11: Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with **EVERY** spiritual blessing in Christ. For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and **BLAMELESS** in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His **GLORIOUS GRACE**, which He has freely given us in the One He loves. In Him we have **REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD**, **THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS**, in accordance the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding!!
I Peter 1:18,19: For you know that was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were **REDEEMED** from the empty way of life handed down to you by your forefathers, but with the **PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST**, Lamb without blemish or defect!!
I Peter 2:24,25: He Himself **BORE OUR SINS** in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness, by **HIS WOUNDS** we are healed {See Isaiah 53:5,6}!! For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls!!
I Peter 3:18 For Christ **DIED FOR SINS ONCE FOR ALL**, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God!!
I John 2:1,2: My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have One who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the **ATONING SACRIFICE FOR OUR SINS**, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world!!
I John 4:10-12: This is **LOVE**, not that we loved God, but that He **LOVED** us and sent His Son as an **ATONING SACRIFICE** for our sins. Dear friends, since God so **LOVED** us, we also ought to **LOVE** one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we **LOVE** one another, God **LIVES IN US** and His **LOVE** is made complete in us.
Revelation 1:4,5: Grace and peace to you from Him who is, and who was, and who is to come and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful Witness... To Him who loves us and freed us from our sins **BY HIS BLOOD**!!
NOTE: Jesus Christ our Savior is called the **LAMB** of God **30 TIMES** in the book of Revelation because He did away with all lamb sacrifices for sin by the sacrifice of Himself!!
Revelation 5:6,9: Then I saw a **LAMB**, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne...You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because You were slain, and **WITH YOUR BLOOD** You purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation!!
Revelation 12:11: They overcame him by the **BLOOD OF THE LAMB** and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death!!
Revelation 7:14: These are they who have come out of the Great Tribulation, they have was their robes and made them white in the **BLOOD OF THE LAMB**!!
Isaiah 53:5,6: But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed! We all, like sheep, have gone astray , each of us has turned to his own way, and **THE LORD HAS LAID ON HIM THE INIQUITY OF US ALL**!!
Romans 5:6-10: You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless. Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates His love for us in this: While we were still sinners Christ died for us. Since we are now justified **BY HIS BLOOD**, how much more will we be saved from God's wrath through Him! When we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to Him **THROUGH THE DEATH OF HIS SON**!!
The truth that sets you free: A person is not saved by the death of Messiah !!!
Posted : 22 Jun, 2020 06:33 AM
Quiznos,
I noticed a few misconceptions in your thread.
First you said, “A person is not saved by the death of Messiah !!!”
Then you quote a verse that contradicts exactly what you just said. Romans5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath [of God] through Him.
Quiznos, when someone is “justified” it means they’re “saved”. Also, when the Bible says, we are “...justified by his blood...”, it means we’re saved by his death. Shedding of blood is always a way of denoting death.
Second, you said, “Verse 1 Justified by FAITH ( not by repenting of sin, confessing sin or being baptized ).”
Quiznos, a person repents in faith! In fact, everything a person does with regards to salvation is done by faith!
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
The truth that sets you free: A person is not saved by the death of Messiah !!!
Posted : 22 Jun, 2020 12:03 PM
Romans 3:21-25: But now a righteousness from God, **APART FROM THE LAW**, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes **THROUGH FAITH** in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by **HIS GRACE** through the **REDEMPTION** that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Him as a **SACRIFICE OF ATONEMENT**, **THROUGH FAITH IN HIS BLOOD**!!
The truth that sets you free: A person is not saved by the death of Messiah !!!
Posted : 22 Jun, 2020 04:49 PM
First Quiz Quote”
Davey,
“I believe that your assumption that to be Justified, and to be saved are the same.” End First Quiz Quote
I don’t assume “to be saved and to be justified are the same” when void of context.
Reread your thread introduction that was written by you. You tried to show that a person is not saved by the death of the Messiah but then you quoted a verse that actually disproves what you were trying to prove. Unfortunately you created a specific context in which salvation (to be saved from) and justification (to be justified or made right) refer to the same general notion
Second Quiz Quote: Lookup Justify and Justification, then lookup Save, saved, Salvation, and you find they are different. End Second Quiz Quote
Here again, most words have a range of meaning. Some word meanings overlap. But comparing ranges of meanings without a specific context in mind is for exam day or for word game contestants, not for determining contexts. The context in which a word is being used decides the specific meaning of the word
The truth that sets you free: A person is not saved by the death of Messiah !!!
Posted : 28 Jun, 2020 09:24 AM
Davey,
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath [of God] through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
I checked the tense of the words Justified, reconciled and saved.
In verse 9 the word JUSTIFIED in in the aorist participle passive tense,In the English language the term Having been justified speaks of justification in the present tense.
In verse 10 the word RECONCILED is used two times, both times as a verb with a slightly different tense.
the first time is in the aorist indicative passive tense,( We WERE reconciled ); The next the aorist participle passive tense ( Having been reconciled ).
In the English language, both speak of being reconciled as being something that happened in the past, but continuing on into the future, BUT always being Present in the lives of believers in Messiah.
In verse 10 the word SAVED, is in the Future indicative passive tense.
In the English language, Shall we be saved, is in the FUTURE tense.
Is this Justification, Reconciliation, Saved only for the wrath of GOD Almighty as stated in verse 9, or could this also apply for a believers salvation in general.
