God chose Koine Greek because it is by far the easiest language to translate and has an amazing 456 verb endings making it by far the most exact language. "I would have gone fishing," is just one word in Koine Greek!! Even the Old Testament was translated into Koine Greek in the Septuagint version in the 3rd Century BC. Every Old Testament quote in the New Testament is an exact quote from the Koine Greek Septuagint version.
I studied Koine Greek in college and am not a Koine Greek scholar but I know how to find out the exact meaning of a word in the New testament in Koine Greek by the use of my concordances which include the Koine Greek and by knowing exactly where to go on the internet.
GNWS claims that a **DISCIPLE** is just a "learner" or "student", but when you explore all the verses mentioning disciples in the New Testament we find out that disciples are **MUCH MORE** than just learners or students:
Richard, since you had studied koine greek in college, you should be able to translate the scriptures i posted.
Any first year Greek student should be able to translate what i posted.
By the way, just because i ONLY have a GED, i dropped out of high school, as my life was more important than the riots in the school.
I had taken all 5 of the GED tests in 5 hours while in the Army.
I did not remember taking the tests as i was so hungover from drinking the night before.
Where in the Scriptures does GOD Almighty require anyone to have a degree in Biblical languages.
Happy to hear you completed your high school education in the Army, I probably had the best Koine Greek teacher in a Christian college but that was about 100 years ago :-))) But I did learn the principles of understanding Koine Greek and the right sentence structure and where to look for the right answers.
God chose Koine Greek because it is by far the easiest language to translate and has an amazing 456 verb endings making it by far the most exact language. "I would have gone fishing," is just one word in Koine Greek!! Even the Old Testament was translated into Koine Greek in the Septuagint version in the 3rd Century BC. Every Old Testament quote in the New Testament is an exact quote from the Koine Greek Septuagint version.
I studied Koine Greek in college and am not a Koine Greek scholar but I know how to find out the exact meaning of a word in the New testament in Koine Greek by the use of my concordances which include the Koine Greek and by knowing exactly where to go on the internet.
GNWS claims that a **DISCIPLE** is just a "learner" or "student", but when you explore all the verses mentioning disciples in the New Testament we find out that disciples are **MUCH MORE** than just learners or students:
gracenotworkssaves Quote:
"Richard, since you believe there are ONLY MINOR errors in the English translations, then give the correct translation of the following scripture."
Matthew 28 verses 18- 20: And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. "Go therefore and make **DISCIPLES** {Should be learners or students} of all the nations, baptizing {Should be immersing} them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
However, in Christianity, **DISCIPLE** is **MUCH MORE** than a learner or student and primarily refers to a dedicated follower of Jesus. In the ancient world a disciple is a follower or adherent of a teacher. It is not the same as being a student in the modern sense. A disciple in the ancient biblical world actively imitated both the life and teaching of the master. It was a deliberate apprenticeship which made the fully formed disciple a living copy of the master. A Christian disciple is a believer who follows Christ and then offers his own imitation of Christ as model for others to follow. A disciple is first a believer who has exercised faith. This means they have experienced conversion and put Jesus at the center of their life and participated in rites of Christian imitation. A fully developed disciple is also a leader of others who attempts to pass on this faith to his followers, with the goal of repeating this process.
I Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you. {Which GNWS claims is full of **ERRORS**}
John 17:17: Jesus prays to His Father, "Sanctify them by the Truth, **YOUR WORD IS TRUTH**!" {Which GNWS claims is full of **ERRORS**}
2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**Which GNWS claims is full of **ERRORS**} Be prepared in season and out of season, correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people {Like GNWS & Teddyhugger} will not put up with sound doctrine!
I already translated the word **DISCIPLE** and the other word you said was wrongly translated in Matthew 28:18-20 was **BAPTIZING** {Greek Baptizo} which you said must be translated **IMMERSED IN WATER** .. However Jesus *BAPTIZES** {BAPTIZO) all believers with the Holy Spirit which has nothing to do with being Immersed in water!!
Mark 1:7-8: John the Baptist said, "After me comes the One more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down an untie. I baptize with water but **HE WILL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT**!"
John 1:32-34: Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the spirit come down and remain is the One who will **BAPTIZE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT**.' I have seen and testify that this is God's Chosen One."
Jesus would not be glorified until he died, rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. Only then would he be glorified and only then would he "**BAPTIZE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT**. Peter's words on Pentecost support this.
John 16:12-15: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to, more than you can now bear. But when he, the spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own, he will only speak what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is **FROM ME** that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said the spirit will **RECEIVE **FROM ME** WHAT HE WILL MAKE KNOWN TO YOU**!!"
Acts 1:45,8: Jesus said, "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the **GIFT** My Father promised, which you have heard Me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be **BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT**!"... You will receive **POWER** when the holy spirit comes on you; and you will be **MY WITNESSES**, in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth!"
Acts 10:44-46: While Peter was speaking these words {The Word of God in Acts 10:34-43} the holy spirit came on all who heard the message The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the **GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT** had been poured out on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Acts 11:15-16: Peter said as I was speaking the word of God, the holy spirit came on them as he had come on us. Then I remembered what the Lord Jesus had said {In Acts 1:5} "John baptized with water but you will be **BAPTIZED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT**!"
+++ PROPHETIC 7744 YOU ARE NOT BORN AGAIN BUT DEAD IN YOUR SINS, UNREPENTANT AND SELF RIGHTEOUS ++++
Deuteronomy 18:17-19:
+++ 7744 YOU DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PROPHET LIKE MOSES; YOU DO YOUR OWN THING FOLLOWING YOUR FLESH++++
John 14:21-24
+++7744 YOU DO NOT KEEP THE COMMANDS OF JESUS THEREFORE YOU DO NOT LOVE HIM!++++
Acts 5:32
+++7744 YOU DO NOT OBEY JESUS; YOU ATTACK HIS PEOPLE ++++
Luke 6:46-49:
+++7744 YOU DO NOT PUT THE WORDS OF JESUS INTO PRACTICE; YOU ARE NOT HUMBLE AND YOU ATTACK HIS PEOPLE ++++
I Peter 1:23-25:
+++ARE YOURS THE ACTIONS OF ONE BORN AGAIN? ++++
Matthew 24:35:
+++ THE WORDS OF JESUS SHOULD CONVICT YOU OF YOUR ACTIONS. BUT NO, YOU ARE ONE WHO SAYS JESUS! JESUS! BUT DOESN'T ACT LIKE JESUS++++
I John 2:3-5:
+++ 7744 YOU DONT OBEY HIS COMMANDS - THIS MAKES YOU THE LIAR! ++++
Matthew 4:4
+++PROPHETIC 7744 YOU LIVE ON LIES AND WILL CRAWL ON YOUR BELLY EATING DUST! ++++
Luke 8:15:
+++ PROPHETIC 7744; LOOK AT WHAT YOU PRODUCE: LIES, SLANDER AND DIVSION!++++
John 17:17:
+++YOU HAVE NO TRUTH IN YOU. YOU ONLY QUOTE THE TRUTH OF THE BIBLE, YOU DO NOT PRACTICE IT++++
Acts 20:32: "
+++ YOU ARE SANCTIFIED IN THE SPIRIT, NOT IN THE FLESH AS YOUR ACTIONS OF AGRESSION TOWARDS BELIEVERS PROVE UOU TO BE ++++
Romans 10:17:
+++ YOU MAY OF HEARD THE MESSAGE, BUT IT DOES NOT DWELL IN YOU; HATE, STRIFE AND REVENGE DWELL IN YOU ++++
James 1:18;
+++ APPARENTLY YOU WERE STILL BORN! ++++
I Corinthians 15:2:
+++ YOUR ACTIONS PROVE YOU HAVE BELIEVED IN VAIN ++++
2 Corinthians 4:2:
L - A - M - O - THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO: USE DECEPTION AND DISTORT THE WORD OF GOD, BUT ARE TOO ARROGANT AND SELF RIGHTEOUS TO REALIZE IT! ++++
Ephesians 1:13:
+++ YOU MAY OF HEARD, YOUR ACTIONS SAY YOU'RE NOT INCLUDED ++++
Ephesians 2:17:
+++ IT'S A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD, BUT YOU WOULDN'T KNOW IT BECAUSE YOU USE IT AS A HAMMER ON THE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS ++++
Colossians 1:25
+++ YOU TELL A TREE BY IT'S FRUIT: YOUR FRUIT SAYS YOUR COMMISSION IS FROM THE EVIL ONE ++++
Colossians 3:16:
+++ THE WORDS OF CHRIST YOU QUOTE WITH THE CLICK OF A MOUSE, THEY DO NOT LIVE IN YOU++++
I Thessalonians 2:13:
+++ YOU RECIEVED NOTHING BUT HATE STRIFE AND DIVISION ++++
Acts 17:11,12:
+++ PROPHETIC 7744, YOU NEED TO EXAMINE YOURSELF! ++++
Psalm 118:147,148:
+++ 7744, YOU HOPE IN YOUR OWN WORD THEN SEARCH FOR SOME SCRIPTURE TO MAKE MATCH IT - JUST LIKE THE EVIL ONE .++++
2 Timothy 2:15:
+++ YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED FOR MISHANDLING THE WORD OF GOD - BUT YOU ARE TOO ARROGANT AND SELF RIGHTEOUS TO BE ASHAMED! ++++
2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2:
+++ ATTACKING GRACENOTWORKSAVES IS WHAT YOU CONSIDER BEING "EQUIPPED? ++++
Adding and subtracting Gods Word
+++ YOU JUST SEALED YOUR FATE: LET YOU BE JUDGED BY YOUR OWN WORDS ++++ (take lots of water with you)
Revelation 22:16,18,19:
+++PROPHETIC 7744; I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU, HOPE YOU ENJOY HEAT ++++
John 16
+++ IF WHAT YOU POST ABOUT OTHERS IS FROM GOD, THEN YOUR GOD IS THE EVIL ONE ++++
And holy spirit inspired....
+++ DOES THE HOLY SPIRIT INSPIRE YOU TO LIE ABOUT, ATTACK
AND SLANDER OTHER BELIEVERS? ++++
THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20
+++ LOOK AROUND 7744; YOU THINK JESUS IS WITH YOU AS YOU LIE, ATTACK AND SLANDER HIS PEOPLE? IF JESUS WAS WITH YOU, HE'D SLAP YOU UPSIDE YOUR HEAD - GOD KNOWS YOU NEED IT! ++++
What a forum name! I don't know who you are YET but your timing is right on now. You are SPOT ON about P7744 and hopefully he will repent. We have lost many a good Christian people on this forum because of him.
Now Teddyhugger does not believe in eternal torment in Hell??
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
Revelation 19:20; 20:10: But the Beast {666} was captured, and with him the False Prophet who had performed the signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the Beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were **THROWN ALIVE INTO THE FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR**.... And the Devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the Beast and the False Prophet had been thrown. They will be **TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER!!
Revelation 14:9-11: The angel said in a loud voice, "If anyone worships the Beast and his image and receives the mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of His wrath. They will be **TORMENTED WITH BURNING SULFUR** in the presence of the holy angels and the **LAMB**. And the smoke of **THEIR TORMENT WILL RISE FOR EVER AND EVER**. There will be **NO REST DAY OR NIGHT** for those who worship the Beast!!
Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches.... I warn everyone who reads the words of this prophecy of this book. If anyone**ADDS** {Like Teddyhugger} anything to them, God will add to them all the plagues described in this book {Including eternal torment in hell like Rev 14:9-11 & Rev 20:10 above}. And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like Teddyhugger}} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him any share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book!!"
Matthew 25:41,46: "Then Jesus will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the **ETERNAL FIRE** prepared for the Devil and his angels.... Then they will go away to **ETERNAL PUNISHMENT**, but the righteous to **ETERNAL LIFE**!!
2 Thessalonians 1:8,9: Jesus will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with **EVERLASTING** destruction!!
Daniel 12:1,2: There will be a time of distress {The Great Tribulation} such as not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the {**LAMB'S**} Book--will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to **EVERLASTING LIFE**, others to shame and **EVERLASTING CONTEMPT**!!
John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a Judge for those who do not accept **MY WORDS*, the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the Last Day!!"
And those who do accept the Words of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ on everlasting torment in Hell have committed an unpardonable sins off **ADDING** and **TAKING WORDS AWAY** from the **WORD OF GOD**!!
And so God's Word clearly shows when the lost are thrown **ALIVE** into the **FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR** they will be:
**TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER** {Revelation 20:10 above}
**THEIR TORMENT WILL RISE FOR EVER AND EVER AND THEY WILL HAVE NO REST DAY OR NIGHT** {Revelation 14:9-11 above}
**THEY WILL HAVE SHAME AND EVERLASTING CONTEMPT** {Daniel 12:2 above}
**THEY WILL HAVE ETERNAL PUNISHMENT IN THE ETERNAL FIRE** {Matthew 25:41,46 above}
Nice to meet you Teddyhug. Thanks for the hello! I was just browsing the forum and could not believe what I was reading on a Christian forum! Prophetic 7744 maliciously attacking a brother in Christ. I signed up just to respond to him.
This guy is a first class jerk! And shouldn't be allowed on a Christian forum!
For instance, many Christians insist that if you question hell, you are rejecting what has always been agreed upon by the Church, yet the doctrine of eternal torment was not a widely held view for the first five centuries after Christ, particularly in the early Eastern Church, the Church of the early apostles and Church fathers such as Paul, Clement of Alexandria, St. Gregory of Nyssa, Origen, and others.
What we do see during this time is the expansion and proliferation of pagan myths about the afterlife, which were then repackaged as eternal, fiery torment in the Western (Catholic) Church, primarily by Latin theologians and Church leaders from Rome. It seems this was most likely motivated by political expediency. The idea of eternal torment was a prime tool for controlling the average churchgoer with fear and was congruent with secular mythologies of the time. Later, pop culture added fuel to the fire (pun intended) through imaginative works like Dante’s Inferno.
That Awkward Moment Eternity Slipped In
The invasion of Hell into Church doctrine ultimately starts with the invasion of “eternity”. As we discussed in Part 2 of our Hell Series, words like “eternity, eternal, everlasting, etc” don’t truly exist in scripture. Rather, these words are all derived from the root word Aión which means “an Age” or “Eon”.
Take a phrase like aionas ton aionon. This phrase shows up several times in the Greek New Testament (Romans 20:10, for example) and has been traditionally translated as “forever and ever”.
But here’s the problem. Aión means “Age”, not “forever”. And even worse, ton means “of”, NOT “and”. For example, Abraham was the father of (ton) Isaac. ALL THREE WORDS of this phrase are completely mistranslated. What it actually says is “Ages of the Ages”.
We see this root word Aión every time we see “eternal”, “eternity”, “forever”, “everlasting”, etc. All of these words revolve around the concept of Ages.
So why are we telling you this?
Because “Ages” played a crucial role in the way early Church fathers viewed life. It was a highly significant paradigm to how they viewed God, this life, the afterlife, etc.
Due to the history of the Biblical text and the numerous influences in its popular translations, we’ve been left with a very Plato-esque focus on this concept called eternity. But that was not the paradigm of the “orthodox” church until St. Augustine, a student of Plato, funneled Christian doctrine through Plato’s teachings of the “eternal soul”.
Plato made several philosophical arguments that have ironically come to define our mainstream Christian paradigms.
First, Plato believed that the soul was separate from the body and that the soul was fundamentally pure but tends to become deformed through association with the body.
Second, like his teacher Socrates, Plato believed that the soul itself was immortal, thus necessitating an eternal destination for the soul after the body dies.
Third, Plato proposed that good actions result in a reward in this life, but more importantly, a greater reward after death. Similarly, bad actions result in consequences in this life, but even greater punishment after death.
Plato linked some of his ideas to prevailing Greek mythology, including the locations of Hades and Tartarus. In Greek mythology, Tartarus is the location deep below Hades where the Titans were enslaved and the wicked were tormented. According to Plato, this is where divine punishment was meted out.
It is of this philosopher that St. Augustine remarked,
“The utterance of Plato, the most pure and bright in all philosophy, scattering the clouds of error . . .”
These ideas proposed by Plato are not from the Bible. They are Greek philosophy. BUT we have spent centuries reading them into the Biblical text and even translating the Biblical text through their lens.
But if we go back before the time of Augustine, we find 5 centuries of Church fathers who never carried this lens.
(If you’d like a more in-depth look at how “Eternity” weaseled it’s way into scripture, we’ve made a 13,000 word study on the topic available for download at this spot in the article on our website)
How Hell Invaded Church Doctrine
The big point we are building up to here is that the early church fathers DID NOT believe in eternal torment. We aren’t talking about the first guy or two post-Paul. We are talking about the first 5 centuries after Christ.
Let me repeat that, just so we are clear.
Eternal torment was not a pillar of church doctrine for the first 5 centuries after Christ.
Dr. Ken Vincent, retired psychology professor from Houston Community College, and author of over one hundred books in the fields of psychology and religion, notes:
The first person to write about “eternal hell” was the Latin (West) North African Tertullian (160–220 A.D.), who is considered the Father of the Latin Church. As most people reason, hell is a place for people you don’t like! Tertullian fantasized that not only the wicked would be in hell but also every philosopher and theologian who ever argued with him! He envisioned a time when he would look down from heaven at those people in hell and laugh with glee! [ii]
Out of the six theological schools in Tertullian’s day and beyond (170–430 A.D.), the only school that taught the doctrine of eternal torment or hell to its students was the Latin (Roman) school in Carthage, Africa. Four of the other five taught that, through the death and resurrection of Christ, all people would be saved through restorative judgment and reconciliation in a plan of Ages.[iii] This teaching was called, “Universal Salvation” or “Universal Reconciliation.” Dr. Vincent says,
By far, the main person responsible for making hell eternal in the Western Church was St. Augustine (354–430 CE). Augustine…was made Bishop of Hippo in North Africa. He did not know Greek, had tried to study it, but stated that he hated it. Sadly, it is his misunderstanding of Greek that cemented the concept of eternal hell in the Western Church. Augustine not only said that hell was eternal for the wicked, but also for anyone who wasn’t a Christian. So complete was his concept of God’s exclusion of non-Christians that he considered un-baptized babies as damned. When these babies died, Augustine softened slightly to declare that they would be sent to the “upper level” of hell. Augustine is also the inventor of the concept of “hell Lite,” also known as Purgatory, which he developed to accommodate some of the universalist verses in the Bible. Augustine acknowledged the Universalists, whom he called “tender-hearted,” and included them among the “orthodox.”[iv]
Not only was Augustine somewhat the champion of the hell doctrine in the Western Church, he also had a major influence on the onset of religious bigotry and hate campaigns in the following centuries.
In the 1907 book, Lives of the Fathers: Sketches of Church History in Biography, written by Frederick D. Farrar, who was Chaplain in Ordinary to the Queen of England, we read about Augustine:
The advocacy of hell came primarily on the scene with Augustine: In no other respect did Augustine differ more widely from Origen and the Alexandrians [Eastern Church] than in his intolerant spirit. Even Tertullian conceded to all the right of opinion.
[Augustine] was the first in the long line of Christian persecutors, and illustrates the character of the theology that swayed him in the wicked spirit that impelled him to advocate the right to persecute Christians who differ from those in power. The dark pages that bear the record of subsequent centuries are a damning witness to the cruel spirit that actuated Christians, and the cruel theology that impelled it. Augustine was the first and ablest asserter of the principle which led to Albigensian crusades, Spanish armadas, Netherland’s butcheries, St. Bartholomew massacres, the accursed infamies of the Inquisition, the vile espionage, the hideous bale fires of Seville and Smithfield, the racks, the gibbets, the thumbscrews, and the subterranean torture-chambers used by churchly torturers.[v]
Samuel Dawson, author of, The Teaching of Jesus: From Mount Sinai to Gehenna a Faithful Rabbi Urgently Warns Rebellious Israel, says:
Most of what we believe about hell comes from Catholicism and ignorance of the Old Testament, not from the Bible. I now believe that hell is the invention of Roman Catholicism; and surprisingly, most, if not all, of our popular concepts of hell can be found in the writings of Roman Catholic writers like the Italian poet Dante Alighieri (1265–1321), author of Dante’s Inferno. The English poet John Milton (1608–1674), author of Paradise Lost, set forth the same concepts in a fashion highly acceptable to the Roman Catholic faith. Yet none of our concepts of hell can be found in the teaching of Jesus Christ![vi]
Following on the heels of Augustine, the greatest influence on today’s hell theology via most modern Bible translations came from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate. Jerome translated this tainted version of the Scriptures from a very inferior Latin text in the late 4th century:
For over a thousand years (c. AD 400–1530), the Vulgate was the definitive edition of the most influential text in Western European society. Indeed, for most Western Christians, it was the only version of the Bible ever encountered. The Vulgate’s influence throughout the Middle Ages and the Renaissance into the Early Modern Period is even greater than that of the King James Version in English; for Christians during these times the phraseology and wording of the Vulgate permeated all areas of the culture.[vii]
What was the problem with Jerome’s Bible? It was heavily influenced by Latin hell-inventing theologians like Tertullian and Augustine.
When you realize that the hell doctrine was so late in being adopted by the Church (and hence, Scriptures), the poorly constructed walls of orthodoxy begin to crumble. It was several hundred years after Jesus and the apostles that men began formulating many of these new Church doctrines and creeds, many still a part of Evangelical Christian orthodoxy to this day.
Had our old English Bibles been translated directly out of the Greek instead of Latin, it’s very probable that the doctrine of eternal torment would never have found its way into our modern Bibles and theology at all. Many of these doctrines were strong-armed into the Church through major dissension and even bloodshed, with intolerant, oppressive Church leaders insisting that they were “led by the Spirit” on such matters.
The Afterlife According To Gregory
While we’ve been telling you a lot about what early fathers didn’t believe, I think it would be helpful for us to look at what some of them did believe.
We are going to look briefly at St. Gregory of Nyssa, who lived from 335 to 395 AD. In addition to being canonized, St. Gregory served as the Bishop of Nyssa and is known for his significant contributions to both the doctrine of the Trinity and the Nicene creed.
In other words, this guy is one of the founding fathers of church orthodoxy. If you aren’t aware, the Nicene creed serves to this day as the universal statement of faith for not only the Catholic church, but most anyone who would call themselves “Christians”.
St. Gregory DID NOT believe in eternal torment. But let’s not stop there. What he DID believe in was universal salvation — that all would ultimately be reconciled to God.
For it is evident that God will in truth be all in all when there shall be no evil in existence, when every created being is at harmony with itself and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; when every creature shall have been made one body.
St. Gregory, like many in his day, believed that we were on a progression through the ages, where at the end of the Age, those who had purged themselves of evil in this life would enter into the blessedness of the Age to Come, while those who hadn’t would be passed through cleansing fire, after which they would also enter into that same blessedness.
Whoever considers the divine power will plainly perceive that it is able at length to restore by means of the aionion purging and atoning sufferings, those who have gone even to this extremity of wickedness.
And in another quote:
Wherefore, that at the same time liberty of free-will should be left to nature and yet the evil be purged away, the wisdom of God discovered this plan; to suffer man to do what he would, that having tasted the evil which he desired, and learning by experience for what wretchedness he had bartered away the blessings he had, he might of his own will hasten back with desire to the first blessedness …either being purged in this life through prayer and discipline, or after his departure hence through the furnace of cleansing fire.
In other words, St. Gregory is saying that God gave us free will, so that in tasting evil, we would realize how wretched it is and hasten back into a righteous state of blessedness — or as we might say here at Brazen Church, hasten into the abundant life Jesus came to show us — and that this hastening to blessedness will come either in this life, through prayer and discipline, or in the life to come, by passing through cleansing fire.
This isn’t a renegade theologian firing shots at Christendom thousands of years into orthodoxy.
This is a FOUNDER of orthodoxy. This is a man responsible for forging the unifying statement of faith for all of Christianity. This is a man who attended the first ever council of the Church in Nicaea.
And THIS MAN, this founder of the faith, not only shows no traces of a belief in Hell — He actually believed ALL WOULD BE SAVED. And while not all of his contemporaries shared his belief that all would be saved, the opposing belief was that the wicked would be destroyed… NOT tormented forever.
Conclusion
It shocks me to hear people argue that the doctrine of Hell has been the definitive belief of Christendom since the days of the New Testament. Such a claim demonstrates a fundamental ignorance of Church history and is a testament to how extensively St. Augustine’s doctrine influenced the orthodox church.
The idea of eternal torment comes primarily from Greek thought — a merging of mythology and the ramification of belief in an immortal soul.
For 5 centuries, Christian doctrine remained unaffected by Hell until St. Augustine forcibly inserted it into orthodoxy, using a combination of power and violence to ensure it’s survival. Since that time, we’ve seen the gradual evolution of Christian doctrine in and around this concept, until today, the average believer has no idea that the concept of eternal torment isn’t even Biblical.
This doctrine of Hell has been used for centuries to control the masses with fear. Today, it prevents the world, both Christian and non-Christian alike, from seeing a loving Father.
A Christianity with Hell is a Christianity that must inherently be full of fear, and yet 1 John 4:18 tells us:
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
A Christianity without Hell is a Christianity without fear, and that’s the Christianity I hope has freed you to enjoy… or at least freed you to consider
