I keep hearing nonbelievers in Jesus and the Christians who follow them decry “disputing”, “debating”, “judging” and other biblical means of discernment and discussion. Have they not read Jesus talking to the false teachers of his day??? Have they not read about Paul “disputing” against false teaching??? Have they not read Old Testament accounts of Prophets rebuking false prophets??? And I’m just warming up!!!
“This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question...”
This is but one example of Godly “disputing”. Yes, there are biblical commands against sinful disputes.
A point to be made is this, we as Christians must stop condemning the prophets of old, Jesus or the Apostles in defenses of truth by condemning those today who are doing the same thing!!
For example, in Galatians, Paul severely rebukes Peter publicly for Peter’s public departure from right doctrine. But Peter changed course and complimented Paul.
The Bible even teaches that disputes MUST occur so that right doctrine with be manifested!!
Sorry, I meant to say, “so that right doctrine WILL be manefested.
Some people think Jesus was some sweet serendipitous Christ who never raised his voice to anyone or rebuked anybody.
How quickly we ignore the all the accounts of Jesus calling people to account. A certain sinner was called to account by Jesus because of continual sinning. Jesus had just healed the guy and in grandiose gratitude the guy shows no remorse even after Jesus’ healing and rebuke but goes directly to the Pharisees to turn Jesus in to the authorities!!! IMAGINE THAT!!!
Jesus also rebuked his disciples and he wasn’t always nice about it!!!
Oh, It seems Jesus also cleared the temple of false worshipers with their merchandise with a cord and turned over some tables!!
False doctrine seemed to really irritate Jesus!!
Where IS this sweet little Jesus everybody keeps talking about ???
Yes, the Bible speaks against specific kinds of arguing and debating but let’s stop posing as holier-than-thou-objectors who depend on “sinners with swords” to protect their families !!
Let’s use the exact standard of what is good and bad that Scripture uses and let us stop inventing our own sense of right and wrong by ignoring the WHOLE of scripture!!! Let us stop pulling in patches of out of context scripture to justify our false belief (eisogesis)
Eisegesis means to fallaciously read our own ideas >into< the text of scripture in order to make scripture read in such a way that it supports our teaching.
Conversely, we should rather allow scripture to speak out >from itself to us< instead. This is called “exegesis”. From thus we form our understanding
There’s nothing novel about this principle. Every one of us wants other people to understand exactly what we say—right??
Same with God, he expects us to understand what he means by what he says.
All of us hate it when someone else misinterpretes what we say but we appreciate when others clearly understand us—well—shouldn’t we allow God the same curtesy??
The Bible distinguishes between sinful disputing from good disputing, dead faith from true faith, false belief from true belief, sinful judging from righteous judging, false gods from the True God and on and on.
You might say the Bible is a book that makes distinction between good and evil.
Sadly too many, even Christians, resist making biblical distinctions between good and evil because they don’t want their choice of evil exposed
Little David: You should try using the Living Word of God like all good Bible theologians rather than your own human reasoning. I have never called Cupcakeme and Needs a friend liars. I always use the Word of God to prove my points.
**JESUS SAYS NEVER MAKE AN OATH, AND LOVE AND FORGIVE ALL YOUR ENEMIES**
In the OT God ordered Israel to kill their enemies many times and God helped them do it. However in the NT Jesus commands in Luke 6:27-29: "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also."
Matthew 5:43,44: Jesus says, "You have heard that is was said, {in the OT} 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you. love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven!!"
Whereas in the OT in Leviticus 26:7,8: God said to Israel, "You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the **SWORD** before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the **SWORD** before you!"
Numbers 25:16,17" The Lord said to Moses, "Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them!"
Numbers 32:20,21: Moses said to them, "if you will do this--if you will arm yourselves before the Lord for battle and if all of you who are armed cross over the Jordan before the Lord until He has driven out His enemies out before Him!!"
Deuteronomy 6:18,19: Do what is right and good in the Lord's sight, that it may go well with you and you may go in and take over the good land the Lord has promised on oath to your ancestors, **THRUSTING OUT ALL YOUR ENEMIES BEFORE YOU**, as the Lord said!
Deuteronomy 23:14: For the Lord your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliver your enemies to you!
Deuteronomy 28:7 The Lord will grant that your enemies who go up against you will be defeated before you!
Deuteronomy 30:7: The Lord your God will put all these curses on your enemies who hate and persecute you!
Another OT command in Exodus 21:23-25 "If there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."
This was also changed by these NT commands by Jesus:
Matthew 5:38,39: Jesus commands, "You have heard that it was said {In Exodus 21:23-25 above}, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek turn to him the other also!"
Luke 6:27-29: Jesus commands, "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you. do not demand it back!"
Luke 6:27-30: Jesus says, "Love your enemies, do good to those that hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if someone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back!"
Luke 6:33-36: Love your enemies, do good to them and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your **REWARD** will be great and you will be children of the Most High because He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as you Father is merciful!"
Matthew 18:21,22: Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister {or wife} who sins against me? Up to 7 times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you not 7 times but 77 times!" {Also can be translated 70 times 7 times!}
I Peter 3:9: Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called that you may **INHERIT A BLESSING**!
Matthew 5:9: Jesus the **PRINCE OF PEACE** says, "Blessed are the **PEACEMAKERS**, for they will be called the **CHILDREN OF GOD**!"
2 Corinthians 10:3-5: For though we live in the world, **WE DO NOT MAKE WAR AS THE WORLD DOES**! The weapons we fight with **ARE NOT THE WEAPONS OF THE WORLD**. On the contrary, they have **DIVINE POWER** to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God!
Ephesians 6:17: Take the helmet of salvation and the **SWORD** OF THE SPIRIT** which is the **WORD OF GOD**!!
I Peter 2:20-23: If you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in His steps.... When they hurled their insults at Him, He did not retaliate; when He suffered, He made no threats. Instead He entrusted Himself to Him who judges Justly!
I Peter 3:8,9,11: Finally, all of you, be like minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. **DO NOT REPAY EVIL FOR EVIL** or insult with insult. On the contrary, **REPAY EVIL WITH BLESSING**, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. For... "They must turn from evil and do good; they **MUST SEEK PEACE AND PURSUE IT**!"
Romans 14:17-19: For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, **PEACE** and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God an receives human approval. Let us therefore make every effort to do **WHAT LEADS TO PEACE**!
Hebrews 12:14 Make every effort **TO LIVE IN PEACE WITH EVERYONE**!
Matthew 5:43-45: Jesus says, "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' {As per the OT}. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven!"
Matthew 6:14,15: Jesus says, "If you forgive other people who sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, you Father will not forgive your sins!"
John 18:36: Jesus says, "My Kingdom is not of this world. If it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest. But now My Kingdom is from another place!"
Luke 23:33,34: When they came to the place of the Skull, they crucified Him there... Jesus said, "Father forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing!"
Romans 12:19-21: Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty give him something to drink. In doing this you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but **OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD**!
I Peter 4:8-10: Above all, **LOVE** each other deeply, because **LOVE** covers over a multitude of sins. Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms!
Colossians 3:12-15: As God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on **LOVE**, which binds them all together in perfect unity! Let the **PEACE OF CHRIST** rule in your hearts. since of members of one body, you were **CALLED TO PEACE**!
Isaiah 9:6,7: For unto us a Child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, and **PRINCE OF PEACE**. Of the greatness of His government and **PEACE** there will be no end!!
Ephesians 4:31,32: Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with **ANY FORM OF MALICE**. Be kind and compassionate to one another just as in Christ God forgave you!!
What is the OT command concerning *VOWS* and *OATHS*?? Numbers 30:2: Moses said, "This is what the Lord commands: When a man makes a *VOW* to the Lord or takes an *OATH* to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said!"
But what are the NT commands concerning making *VOWS* and **OATHS*??
James 5:12: "ABOVE ALL, my brothers, do not swear--not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. Let your "Yes" be yes, and your "No," no, or you will be condemned.!!"
Matthew 5:33-37: Jesus says, "You have heard that it was said to your people long ago {Numbers 30:2 above}, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' BUT I tell you, Do not swear at all....Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No, 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one!!"
Federal law requires everyone who enlists or re-enlists in the Armed Forces of the United States to take the enlistment **OATH**!
The **OATH** of enlistment is administered by any commissioned officer to any person enlisting or re-enlisting for a term of service into any branch of the military.
The military **OATH** of enlistment (re-enlistment) is fairly straightforward for most military personnel. It's administered by a superior officer, and carried out like most traditional oaths, with the officer reading the oath and the person being sworn repeating it.
**OATH** for US Armed Forces except for the National Guard after raising their right hand:
I, (NAME), do **SOLEMNLY SWEAR** that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. **SO HELP ME GOD**.
And so anyone who **SOLEMNLY SWEARS**.. **SO HELP ME GOD** and who **KILLS HIS ENEMIES** is breaking two New Covenant Commands of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, even Armed Forces Medics and Chaplains have to take this **OATH**!
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and **ON EARTH** has been given to **ME**. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations...teaching them to obey **EVERYTHING** I have commanded you and surely I am **WITH YOU ALWAYS**, to the very end of the age!!"
Matthew 10:27: Jesus says, "What I tell you in the dark, **SPEAK** in the daylight; what I whisper in your ear **PROCLAIM FROM THE HOUSETOPS**!!"
The Roman Catholic Church was the first denomination to adopt the doctrine of the trinity in AD 325 which stated that God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ **ONE**, and **CO-EQUAL**. Do you agree with the Roman Catholic Church??
Unfortunately many other churches have adopted this **EQUAL** definition of the Trinity.
LUTHERAN CHURCH: We teach that the one true God. is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, three distinct persons, but of one and the same divine essence, **EQUAL** in power,{???} **EQUAL** in eternity,{???} **EQUAL** in majesty,{???} because each person possesses the one divine essence.
Jesus is called **GOD** 7 times and **LORD** over 200 times in God's Word an is definitely **GOD**!!
However: Is Jesus **CO-EQUAL** with **GOD THE FATHER**?
**WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
John 14:28: Jesus says, "If you loved Me, you would be glad that I am going to the **FATHER**, for the **FATHER IS GREATER THAN I**!"
John 10:27-30: Jesus says, "My sheep listen to My voice, I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, no one can snatch them out of My hand. **MY FATHER**, **WHO HAS GIVEN THEM TO ME** **IS GREATER THAN ALL**;
I Corinthians 11:3: But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, the **HEAD** of Christ is **GOD**{THE FATHER**}!
John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "**ALL** THAT THE FATHER GIVES ME** will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away... And this is **THE WILL OF HIM WHO **SENT ME**, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the **FATHER** who sent Me **DRAWS HIM**, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the **FATHER** has **ENABLED THEM**!!"
Deuteronomy 18:17-20: The Lord {*THE FATHER**} said to Moses, "I will raise up for them a Prophet from among their fellow Israelites, and **I WILL PUT MY WORDS IN HIS MOUTH**. He will tell them everything I command Him. I Myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to **MY WORDS** that the Prophet speaks in My Name!"
John 14:23-24: Jesus says, "Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching. My Father will love them, and **WE** will come to them and make **OUR HOME** with them. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching. **THESE WORDS** you hear are not My own; **THEY BELONG TO THE FATHER WHO SENT ME**!"
John 17:17: Jesus says to His Father, "Sanctify them by the truth **YOUR WORD** is **TRUTH**!"
Revelation 1:1: The Revelation from Jesus Christ, which **GOD** {The FATHER*} gave Him!
Jesus is the **HEAD** of God's Kingdom in the NT era until His 2nd Coming and **THEN** He will hand over the Eternal Kingdom to God the Father as per:
I Corinthians 15:23-24: For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the Firstfruits, then, when He comes, those who belong to Him. **THEN** **HE WILL HAND OVER THE {*ETERNAL*} KINGDOM TO GOD THE FATHER**!!
There are 7 passages in the New Testament which state that we should **ONLY PRAY TO GOD THE FATHER**!! and is absolutely confirmed by Jesus in:
Matthew 6:6-10: Jesus says, "When you pray, go into your room, close the door , and **PRAY TO YOUR FATHER**, who is unseen. Then your **FATHER**, who sees what is done in secret will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them for your **FATHER** knows what you need before you ask Him. This, then, is how you should pray: 'Our **FATHER** in heaven, hallowed be your name, **YOUR {*ETERNAL*} KINGDOM COME**, **YOUR WILL BE DONE**, on earth as it is in heaven!'" {See also Luke 11:1-4}
On the day before His crucifixion in Luke 22:41,42: Jesus knelt down and prayed: **FATHER**, if you are willing, take this cup from Me, yet not my will **BUT YOURS BE DONE**!"
I Corinthians 11:3: But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of a woman is man, and the **HEAD** of Christ is **GOD** {*THE FATHER*}!!
Little David: The only comment you made on this Bible study was on John 14:28 when Jesus said, **THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I**. Which you tried to explain away by saying that when Jesus was crucified He was made a little lower than the angels and that was the only reason that Jesus was not **CO-EQUAL** with the Father. Other than that you stated that Jesus was completely **CO-EQUAL** with the **FATHER**. However, you failed to comment on all of the other Words of God that showed that Jesus was not completely **CO-EQUAL** with His Heavenly Father!!
"Little David: You should try using the Living Word of God like all good Bible theologians rather than your own human reasoning."
YOU ARE MISTAKEN. I don't know who put this in your head, but you seem to have twisted out of proportion!......way way out of proportion.
First off:
Real theologians take a verse and explain WHY it means this or doesn't mean that. You just quote verses and expect everyone to agree with your interpretation or be judged Satanic.
Second off:
I have a Bible, in fact literally over a hundred in different versions, translations and original languages. I would have "hundreds" except I gave many away. The point is what makes you think you need to quote dozens of verses at me?
Third off;
When you provide verses and I address them in context proving beyond a shadow of a doubt you have misinterpreted. You NEVER NEVER NEVER address your mistakes but rather just keep quoting the same verse over and over.
Fourth off:
By doing these three things listed above you have essentially ruined any productive discussion, often intentionally off topic. This is NOT from God, this is from you.
John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a Judge for the one who does not accept My words, the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the Last Day!"
Revelation 2216,18,18: I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give this testimony for the churches.... I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone **ADDS** anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book {Including eternal hell in Rev 14:9-11}. And if anyone**TAKES WORDS AWAY**{Like *SAD*lup} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the Tree of Life and iin the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book!"
These words are part of God's Word and all of God's pastors, teachers, evangelists and prophets are commanded to **PREACH THE WORD**!! And the two **UNPARDONABLE SINS** in Revelation 22:18,19 above are part of God's Word. So if someone teaches on this Christian forum that the words in Revelation are not inspired by God or if they **ADD** or *TAKE WORDS AWAY** from the book of Revelation I have the right to warn that teacher that they may have committed an **UNPARDONABLE SIN**!!
2 Peter 3:10-13: But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will DISAPPEAR with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and *EVERYTHING* in it will be burned up {NIV}. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you {**CHURCH SAINTS*} wait eagerly for the Day of God to come. {NIV} That Day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with His promise **WE** {Excluding *SAD*lup} are looking forward to a New heavens and a New Earth, the home of righteousness.
I Corinthians 15:50--51: I declare to you brothers, that flesh and blood CANNOT INHERIT the *KINGDOM OF GOD*... Listen I tell you a mystery: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet."
John 18:36: Jesus says, "My *KINGDOM* is not of this world....But now, my Kingdom is from another place!!"
Matthew 25:31-34: Jesus says, "When the Son of Man comes in His glory , and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another..He will put the sheep on the right and the goats on His left. Then the King will say to those on His right, "Come you who are blessed of My Father, take your inheritance, the *KINGDOM* prepared for you!!"
**WE** ARE ALL WAITING FOR THE NEW EARTH, THE NEW HEAVENS AND THE HEAVENLY NEW JERUSALEM!!
Revelation 21:1-5: Then I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes, There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!" Then He said, "Write this down, for these words are TRUSTWORTHY and TRUE!"
Now *SAD*lup does not believe in the eternal New Jerusalem with its New Heaven and New Earth as do Jewish Rabbai's and I reminded several times that according to Revelation 22:18,19 it is an **UNPARDONABLE SIN** to **TAKE WORDS AWAY** from the Book of Revelation he said that was garbage. I believe that anyone who teaches the prophecies in the Book of Revelation they should be extremely careful not to **ADD** or **TAKE WORDS AWAY** from the Book of Revelation since it is an **UNPARDONABLE SIN!!
Jewish rabbai's and *SAD*lup believe in the coming of an earthly Kingdom of God where the Jews are again God's holy people and there are again animal sacrices for the foguveness of sin, and that there will be 2 thromes for God the Father and King David. Whereas Revelation 22:3 states that there will be only 2 Thrones in the eternal New Jerusalem for the God the Father and the **LAMB** Jesus Christ our great God and Savior!
Revelation 22:3: The throne of God and of the **LAMB** will be in the City!!
Revelation 3:21: Jesus says, "To him who overcomes, II will give the right to sit with Me on **MY THRONE**, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne!"
Jewish rabbai's and ^SAD*lup do not believe in the New Jerusalem, which is almost 1400 miles long wide and high, with its New Heaven and New Earth. But most Jewish rabbai's do not know it is an **UNPARDONABLE SIN**. But **SAD*lup knows and yet he still keeps teaching it on a **CHRISTIAN FORUM!!
