Biblical perspectives on race and racism - really broad topic but I thought it would be interesting to let this discussion take its own course!
Have you ever been surprised or taken aback to hear christians refer to themselves or others in terms you thought were questionable for someone proclaiming Christ?
Example? OK. I have met several christians who refer to themselves as "redneck" or the "N" word or other disparaging terms...and proudly I might add.
We all know that perception - how one views himself/herself in the world -carries different meanings in and out of context. There is no debate about the fact that some will argue that using such language to describe oneself or even others is fine depending on HOW it is meant. Others will argue that there should NEVER be a time when real born again christians should "go there". Thats not the question.
The question is NOT so much "Is it ok"? The questions are:
What do you understand the Bible to say our standards should be regarding issues of race and racism.
Is it true that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh even when joking with others in so called "like company"?
If it is true then what lives in our hearts and is it acceptable to God?
These are the type questions that you may choose to discuss here...I don't know...its your discussion - lets have it! Personally, I think this is one of many "hot button" topics that people are generally afraid of even in churches...In fact many who read this post will simply blow it off making as simple (and cliche) as, "God doesn't see color. Period. End of story." We get that. But how do we explain that Sunday mornings is the most segregated (separated) time in our great nation as people tend to worship with others most like themselves. I'm not saying this is wrong or right...its YOUR discussion! I'm just observing the facts and asking you whats behind them? Why aren't we more integrated on Sunday morning than any other day of the week? Is it acceptable - TO GOD? Does it depend on a persons's heart? Again, if so, whats in that persons heart? Does it depend on a persons ability to be comfortable with others - their ideas and views which most certainly will be as diverse as the experience of being...say Afircan American, Native American, or Spanish American for example.
Look heres the thing: We can stick our collective heads in the sand and blow this topic off but we have to deal with the facts: America by and large a "christian" based country whose history is mottled with mistreatment of others presenting differing perspectives on everything from religion, race, politics etc...We are the "melting pot" but there are lumps in the pot. Notably, being a predominantly christian based nation, Christian voices on issues of abortion, politics and even race have more often than not set the direction and tone of our nation. So how is it then that all that is needed to divide Christians along racial lines is something akin to an "OJ" trial or an "Obama presidency" or for that matter a "border patrol" issue". Isn't it true that true christians (people who follow Christ) are expected to put aside differences our worldly counterparts use to divide and come together? Aren't we tasked/required by God to step outside of our "family history/teachings" pick up our crosses and follow Christ example?
Even more simply: How do we feel as individuals when we find ourselves surrounded by those different from ourselves? Personally, I always cringe when I go into our chatrooms and realize ethnic jokes are being told...I wonder how will new babes view this? Atheists? Are they confused? Hurt orangered by our conduct...which brings up another question - integrity (what we do when no one is watching - except God of course! hmmmm)
Is it that we think God will simply wink at our choice of putting HIS word on THIS topic somewhere on the list of "nice but not necessary" - maybe we just dont care.
I don't know what do you think?
**Please enjoy the discussion and add your comments but remember THIS is a christian website! Please do not use disparaging language or inflammatory remarks intended (or not) to cause injury to another. This is an invitation to discuss a touchy topic that needs attention in my opinion - not simply for the sake of debate...but so we can all check on our own lives and line up with Gods word in this area like any other.
At the end of the discussion we'll take a look - together at what Gods standards and expectations are in HIS word, not our interpretation but HIS word plain and simple.
If you are found to be making nasty comments or being "ugly" please note: You will be booted because this is website that honors God. It might get a little dicey as we explore, but let's honor God family!
Ready? Ok lets hear it!
Don't know where to begin?
Some subject you might want to address:
Do certain American groups deem themselves more patriotic or more christian than others professing Christ?
Why do some Americans feel God was created with the birth of our nation ie...God must see things as we see them 'cause we're Americans and no other peoples existed (muslim or otherwise) before us so God must be on our side and no one elses right?
Is it ok to mock/mimic those in other faiths?
Why do some christians have problems with the names other faiths use to address the God they have known like oh...say Allah? Jehovah?...
Ok you get it...play nice:MrT::excited::ROFL:and lets get'erdone!
ok, I'll jump in here. First of all I think the problem goes deeper than just race for Christians. Look at all the seperation between denominations. It seems we have such inferiority complexes that we will use anything to try and elevate ourselves over the next person. Myself, I prefer to attend a church that is ethnically diverse. There are so many testimonies and points of view, not to mention, awesome brothers and sisters in christ that we miss out on by segregating ourselves.
Before I was saved I did Native American ceremonies for about six years. Had I not done that I would have never known that they worship the same God we do, just have a different name for him( tunkashila, which means Holy Grandfather).
I also am involved in prison ministry, I host a prayer and share group every Tuesday night inside the prison here( I mean an actual prison not just a county jail). In this prayer group we have whites, blacks, and hispanics all coming together in love for God and each other in an enviroment that strongly discourages this kind of racial mixing. Almost all gangs within a prison are racial. I absolutely love our groups' sessions because of the diversity we enjoy. It does sadden me though that the group that I work with ( we have teams in prisons all over the world) at least in Kansas is made up mostly of retired, gray-haired, white men. I think we could be much more effective for Christ if we were more ethnically diverse.
A question that I have is this; what does everyone think of dating/ marriage with those of other races? I at this point do not know of anything biblically against it. I would just like to get other christians view points on it.
Lastly, I firmly believe that when we recieve our resurrection bodies there will no longer be any "races" we will all just be children of God, so why not start being that now. Why wait?
Wow! Gracefreedme...I think you got us off to a really great start in having an open and frank discussion about something most wish would just "go away".
I know exactly what you mean about prison racial lines. I've worked in three and in fact was on duty during the infamous Lucasville riots here in Ohio. Being raised the way I was it was a whole new world to see just how cut and dry these things can be in prison! I will never forget the day black inmate and white inmates squared off in a very small commissary that I was supposed to be in charge of...(man down alarm and set of keys vs. convicted murderers, rapists and the like!)lol...Thank God for Jesus because I never went thru the gates without HIS blood covering my walk...still on that particular day I will honestly and without shame tell you I understood clearly what NOT to do!
Like you I too am involved in evangelism and worship in a very diverse church...with many interracial couples and yet...if I am to be frank: Issues of racial perspective arise even there...In fact, many minorities (Hispanic and others began leaving our church when it was suggested that President Obama was somehow an "evil muslim antichrist" despite his repeated statements of being a christian. In fact, many minorities did not find the statements of Reverend Wright offensive but true to the African American experience...Not all, but many christian and non christians were disturbed by the attack on him by the media. At the time I was dating a guy who had attended his churc for many many years and his statement was this: "It saddends me that at the time of his retirement the only thing he (Rev Wright) will be remembered for were the unfair media snippets when in fact he is respected all over the chicago area for the work he has done with people of ALL races who found themselves homeless and in need." .
I think it has a lot to do with personal experiences and how we percieve ourselves and others - we view the world and ourselves in it (many times) thru a filtered lens depending on who we are. Fore example: Many people were upset with the justice nominee sonya sotomeyor comments recently...I couldn't understand why when she was simply stating that her lens filter differs from that of a middled aged white man. Thats just a fact that we filter things differently based on who we are and where we hail from...Perhaps one way to explain it differently is to put it this way: I'm a middle aged black lady in the natural and I guarantee you my lens filter is different from a middleaged white lady's in many respects. Is it possible that a majority people have become so used to seeing the world thru their lens that they feel threatened when forced to look thru another persons lens filter?
I don't know...I like that you brought up the point that there are other issues perhaps just as devisive if not moreso than race. Thank you! Let's see what others come up with!
Don't forget to check back and see what others are saying and at the end we'll do a scripture review to see what the Bible says.
God bless!
SIDENOTE: Please remember family that this forum does not lend itself to FULL explanation of ones comments. If you do not like something someone says, give the benefit of the doubt and ask for clarification if desired rather than attacking. God has given us a wonderful gift of communication, let's try to use it. Also while it is good to use examples to clarify a thought as I did above, lets try not to get too side tracked with the peripheral issues. This way we can really explore this subject thoroughly!
dear elisee,,, heres a little sermon i did on this very topic.. i also posted it under christian morals...
a little sermon on , racism
dear folks, today id like to talk to ya a little bout racism..
galatians 3: 26-29 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
, im just a ole countryboy with a half of 8th grade education... so i aint so book smart but what the heck do folks mean when they say a 3rd world country ?! where i come from if its the best its number 1 .. so is this telling me that a 3rd world country is like 3rd best or 3rd class? now i really dont know what that means but ill tell you for sure what kind of people they are.. if they have asked forgiveness of their sins.. and prayed to GOD and say that they believe that JESUS lived here on earth and died on the cross for us.and that they believe HE rose on the 3rd day and is now at the right hand throne of GOD to interceed for our sins.. and asked HIM into their hearts and truely meant it and believed it then no matter where they come from ,or where theyre at in life or social standing.. no matter race color creed or male or female ... we are all one in CHRIST JESUS...so 3rd class ,3rd world my foot !,theyre 1st class sons and daughters of a KING!!!!AMEN AND PRAISE GOD!!!! thank you JESUS...
acts 17: 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation
see as you can read there in acts 17:26 that GOD made us all one blood for all nations. thats means we are all one big family. i never had it sink into me as hard as this verse did. people we all are made of one blood.. thats kinda powerful when ya go lookin at folks who are different skin color than you aint it.. knowin we all come from the same blood. there is no superior race folks.. treat each other as equals and youll be doin GODS words..
>galatians 3:28 there is neither jew,nor greek,there is neither slave ,nor free,there is neither male nor female;for you are all one in CHRIST JESUS < so when we look at others we should only see exactly who we see when we look in the mirror .. dont look at anyone any differently.. because we are one and the same , all saved by the blood of the LAMB.. people, there is so much discrimination in our world today... you know it is so much better where i live now as to what it was like when i was a kid.. but we still got along ways to go... you know just because someone looks a little different than us, or speaks a little different than us, or isnt in our social click,wears different clothes different colors of hair or whatnot... us as christians have got to be the ones to take the lead here and see them for what they truely are .. and thats one of us... because we are made one now.. and GOD wants all men to be saved..
none of us are any better than anyone else.. matter of fact we are to edify others and to esteem others better than ourselves... now how can you do that if you speak of a person or persons race creed color or sex in a negative way? or ya look down upon them?
were all one in CHRIST JESUS we all bleed red... so lets all try to see one another as if we are lookin in the mirror.... now i know some of yawl hope you dont see my ole mug starin back at ya in your mirror hehe but you know what i mean.. may GOD do something wonderful in your lives today...
Good job ole cattle! Your input is invaluable and a very good summation on this topic...perhaps we can get you to post it again later?
Many christians will recognize the Gospel you just shared. But something prompted you to explore that topic and choose it as a sermon...what was it?
Did you feel or see a need to remind?
I suspect you preached thal "little old sermon" (lol) for the same reason I brought it up here in this forum. You see cattle many, as you well know, are hearers of the word and can quote all the appropriate scriptures and yet...there are times when it becomes apparent that we may need a reminder or perhaps refresher course for one reason or another.
Whatever the reason you chose to preach that sermon, this topic of discussion stems from a similar place...besides, opening the door for an open and frank discussion is always good food for thought and an opportunity to realize how others may see things. Don't you agree?
dear elisee, if i knew how to edit or delete my posts id be glad to take it down and put it up later for you.. but i dont have a clue hehe..
as for your quesrion what prompted me to speak a sermon such as that.. i wrote that awhile back and used it to speak.. it was the HOLY SPIRIT..all GLORY BE TO GOD. i had read 3rd world country on the net... and it just all came to me.. lots of times things come when i lay down to go to sleep.. but i dont get to sleep gotta get back up and write it out and look up scripture for i forget it lol.. im old and forgetful hehe hope that helps ya.
I am a middlle aged white lady and I live in a redneck community near the Lucasville prison.
My step-grandfather was a bigot so needless to say I was subject to many racial slurs as a child and living where I do I, sadly,I still hear them today.
I went to an all white school until I was in the 7th grade. During my junior high school years racial tension was very high. We had an English teacher that opened up class discussions on the differences of our races. She was quite the lady and held my attention. I made up my mind that when I had children of my own the N word would not be used. I said all that to tell you a little story.
When my oldest son was about 2 yrs old, I was grocery shopping and had him in the seat of the buggy. His speech was very good. As I scanned the meat section my son stated quite clearly,"Look Mommy, that lady's chocolate"! I looked up to see a Black lady smiling at my son.I believe that was the first African American he had paid attention to. I was very embarrased and apologised, but I have often thought about that. What if I had followed my grandfathers lead and used derogitory remarks? My son would have called that little lady the N word.
I am also reminded of Peter,when on a rooftop, the Lord had to show him that sheet 3 times.
Even the disciples had to be led across racial lines.
I don't know what keeps us separated. I only know the annointing. And you, little lady, have it.
Yokes will need to be broken until the Lord's return. Mission fields are right in our own neighborhood.
Dear God, It is my desire to show Christ living in me. May I become a faithful and obediant witness to those I meet. Color, race, creed, male, female, denomination,bond, free, man, woman or child--May my mouth be used to speak Your Words. In Jesus name, Amen
I don't understand why there has to be a long discussion on this subject. The plain and simple fact is that God made us all, regardless of color. And Jesus died for all sinners regardless of color. Those two facts should be the end of it.
I think we do need to have a long discussion on this topic, to bring healing hopefully at least in our little corners of the world. In the perfect Walgreens world, yes, God made each of us equal, and Jesus died for all of us on the Cross. But the ruler of this world is Satan and things go a little differently here.
My father was so predjudiced that he would not even watch a tv show with blacks on it. Having been raised in the backwoods of Kentucky racism was very prevalent. I can even remember seeing a billboard in Tenn. advertising for membership in the K K K, and I knew a few very " proud " card carrying members.
Things have really not changed that much since then. If you go into the men's room in the factory I work at in Kansas now, you will see K K K and Hitler slogans scratched into the walls of the stalls and there aren't even blacks working there.
The best way to start healing for these sicknesses is to get them out in the open and discuss them. Otherwise we keep this hatred inside and it eats at us like cancer.
But this is a Christian forum, and Christians aren't supposed to have those kinda feelings. Once again, the perfect Walgreens world. Let the healing begin here!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is a great big world out there around us and change is coming fast. We need to not only get back to the basics of Christianity, but show it where ever we go.
To have an open discussion like this brings education. I've already told you in my post what my english teacher did for me. She didn't know the change that came in me. I'm just one person, I'd like to think she had that same infuence on others in my class.
It doesn't take much. A Word here, a Word there and change will come to my little redneck community.
There are a few African Americans that come through where I work. Not many though, just coming and going from Cincinnati, I think. BUT, there are quite a few Hispanics here.
My late husband went on a missions trip to Mexico to build churches. In his first phone call home he said,"It's no wonder why they want to come to the US to live". I have pictures, their living conditions are horrible.
Crossing boundaries isn't easy for any of us. It starts inside of us. I believe this post can give us some tools to use to get the job done. It is past time for true healing to come to our nation.
When I got real with God after my husband died, He didn't let down a sheet like He did Peter, but he threw back a spiritual blanket. He opened my llife and revealed I could be whatever I wanted. My only responsiblity now is to Him. My children are grown with lives of their own and I'm on my own.
That night in prayer I asked what is the most important calling one could have. His answer---
For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, ye clothed me: I was sick , and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.(Matt. 25:35,36)
I want to make a difference in the lives of others. I don't care what their race is. If I listen to the voice of God, I will not offend anyone.
When I finish with college:nicenurse:It is my desire to do missions here in the US.
Here's hoping and praying that I can make a difference.
