Author	Thread: re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them?
Admin	re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them? Posted : 7 Oct, 2017 09:38 PM I have, over the years, listened to various people espouse their various faith-related teachings and particular theological-based preachings... and so recently I have been listening to someone who teaches/preaches on something called 'Deliverance Ministry'... This is, as a concept, new to me. Here are my understanding of the basic tenets of 'Deliverance Ministries': PREMISE: 'People who profess salvation, can, and often do, come under the oppression of demons... In order for these 'saved' people to be released from there particular aspect of physical/spiritual/psychological bondage - there must be (what, seems to me, to be) an 'exorcism' of the demons from within the person.' (And though I may be wrong - this is my personal understanding from having listened to quite a few videos, regarding this.) First of all, may I say that it is not my intention to challenge anyone's belief concerning this particular topic... I just simply want to 1 - understand 'why?' so many people choose to believe that the Holy Spirt can reside within a person, alongside of demons... (to be cast 'out' of someone - must they not first 'be in' that person?) 2 - so does this mean that 'the person from whom the demon(s) are (supposedly) being cast out, a) are not actually 'save' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit)? b) are possibly saved (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit), but are participating in some sort of 'willful delusion' on their own, or other's, part OR c) is there some other explanation that I haven't yet thought of to explain this 'casting out of demons from a person while they are professing to be 'saved/indwelt' by the Holy Spirit?' I am very curious to hear about this, if anyone knows the answer - perhaps from being a part of this body of people who believe this ministry to be founded on biblical truths... can you explain your standing on this? and also to hear from others as to personal opinions regarding these things... My thanks to everyone for taking the time to share your thoughts... and God bless you... Post Reply
View Profile History	re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them? Posted : 9 Oct, 2017 04:15 PM The Bible shows us that there are a little over 100 million heavenly angels and that there are a little over 50 million demons controlled by Satan since one third of the angels left heaven with Satan. Not every lost person has a demon since there are about 7 billion people now on earth and if about 500 million are or will be saved that would mean that there is only one Satanic demon for about every 130 unsaved people. It is very likely that only the most evil people like the Las Vegas killer and the ISIS killers have a demon guiding them. It is also likely that many false prophets who teach the Prosperity Gospel such as Joel Osteen and Benny Hinn have a demon guiding them. When a person is saved, the Holy Spirit inhabits that person, and if that person had a demon it would leave when the Holy Spirit of God moves in. Matthew 12:28: Jesus says, "If it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the Kingdom of God has come upon you." According to Mark 3:15 Jesus gave authority to the 12 Apostles to drive out demons or Satan's angels. Now the NIV and most Bibles have this footnote "The earliest manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20!" And so Mark 16:17,18 are not the inspired Words of God: Mark 16:17,18: Jesus said, "And these signs will accompany {ALL} those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues. They will pick up snakes with their hands and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all."??? If, however if one of God's saints helps in saving someone who has a demon with the help of God's word; in a sense he is driving out a demon. However: I John 1:8,9; 2:1,2: If we {believers} claim to be without sin, **WE DECEIVE OURSELVES** and the truth is not in us. If we **CONFESS OUR SINS**, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we {believers} we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives....If anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the **ATONING SACRIFICE FOR OUR SINS**!! Matthew 26:41: Jesus says, "Watch and **PRAY**so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing but the body is weak!" Hebrews 4:15,16: For we do not have a High Priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have One who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may **RECEIVE MERCY AND FIND GRACE TO HELP US IN OUR TIME OF NEED**!! Hebrews 12:5,6,10,11: Do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when He rebukes you, because the **LORD DISCIPLINES THOSE HE LOVES**, And He punishes everyone He accepts as a son... God disciplines us for our own good, that we may share in His holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. If we fail to daily ask forgiveness and repent of our sins God will **DISCIPLINE US** and sometimes it will be very painful. We will also **LOSE ETERNAL REWARDS** and a **CLOSE RELATIONSHIP** with God! Post Reply
View Profile History	re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them? Posted : 9 Oct, 2017 05:02 PM The Bible shows us that there are a little over 100 million heavenly angels and that there are a little over 50 million demons or angels controlled by Satan; since one third of the angels left heaven with Satan. Revelation 5:11: The I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands and **10 THOUSAND TIMES 10 THOUSAND**! {10 thousand times 10 thousand is 100 million} Revelation 12:4,7-9: Then another sign appeared in heaven; an enormous red dragon {Satan}... His tail swept **A THIRD** of the stars out of the sky... Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon, and the Dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the Devil, or Satan. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him! Post Reply
LittleDavid View Profile History	re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them? Posted : 20 Oct, 2017 08:45 PM There is not scriptural evidence for demon possession of Christians. Those who insist have the burden of proof show otherwise. Nevertheless, Satan can inflict believers. He was permitted to inflict Job but he never "possessed" him. Satan asked to "sift Peter like sand" but Satan never "possessed" him either. Returning to demon possession, there seems to be little evidence that men can limit demonic activity short the power of God--"deliverance ministries" not withstanding Post Reply
LittleDavid View Profile History	re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them? Posted : 20 Oct, 2017 08:59 PM There is no scriptural evidence for demon possession of Christians. Those who insist have the burden of proof to show otherwise. Nevertheless, Satan can inflict believers. He was permitted by God to inflict Job but he never "possessed" Job. Satan also asked to "sift Peter like sand" but Satan never "possessed" him either. Back to demon possession, there seems to be very little evidence if any, to prove that men can limit demonic activity short of the power of God, "deliverance ministries" not withstanding Post Reply
View Profile History	re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them? Posted : 21 Oct, 2017 09:23 AM The problem here is the traditional simplistic thinking regarding "possession". There are cases in which people are possessed yes but this should not be confused with "oppression" which is more like a obnoxious neighbor leaning on you as apposed to the demon having actual control over you. Man has inner and outer doors through which demons can enter if they are left open, what happens when you get saved is the Holy Ghost enters and locks the inner door but the outer doors are the man's personal responsibility. So it can be more a case of demons being thrown off than being cast out, it must be remembered that demons can only enter any given door if it was left open in the first place so getting rid of them is more a case of "what actions and/or habits of mine are the cause for this problem", repenting and stopping being an idiot..... if you play in the gutter you WILL get sick and it will be YOUR fault. Of course there are cases of trauma that force some doors open but then it's still the individual's responsibility to seek help. Related to this is a new theory I have come across called "Demonic Soul Copies" but I am still VERY careful how much of it should be believe since it could simply be misinformation. Post Reply
Hark View Profile History	re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them? Posted : 21 Oct, 2017 02:09 PM Qorintyah Aleph (1st Corinthians) 6:19-20 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from Elohim? And you are not your own; 20 for you were bought with a price; glorify YHWH therefore in your body. (CLV) 2Co 6:14 Do not |become~ diversely |yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness? Or what communion has light with darkness? How can demons possibly share the temple of the Ruach HaKodesh? Post Reply
View Profile History	re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them? Posted : 21 Oct, 2017 11:09 PM Like I said, inner and outer sections. Thy physical temple had all sorts of evil-doers in it's outer sections over the years, like the money changers. Post Reply
Hark View Profile History	re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them? Posted : 22 Oct, 2017 01:28 AM You're talking about the expansion to the Second Temple, built by Herod in ~20 BC, and destroyed in ~70 CE. That part of the second temple stood for a very short time. https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/passages/related-articles/the-temple-mount-and-the-money-changers.aspx I question whether or not YHWH favored its' construction. Did YHWH even favor the construction of the second temple? It was a spiritual shell of the First. http://www.aish.com/jl/h/cc/48938582.html I only see three doors on the First Temple: http://www.templesecrets.info/ I doubt that evil was entering the Priest's cells nor the Holy Place. Post Reply
View Profile History	re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them? Posted : 22 Oct, 2017 11:40 AM You are splitting hairs now. Firstly the evil DID enter with the priests, the head priest was illegitimate and Jesus continually criticized the others (called them names too in a few places). Then He referred to the money changers as if they WERE in the temple and He got angry at them for that... He considered the temple (and expansions) holy. The Holy of Holies still had God's presence in it (which only later left when the divide was torn) but the sections outside it had increasing levels of corruption. Post Reply
Hark View Profile History	re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them? Posted : 22 Oct, 2017 12:42 PM I'm sorry that you perceive that delineating a demarcation between folk tales and facts, as "splitting hairs; but I insist on the truth. Did you even check out the resources that I posted? You can call that little room in the second temple the Holy of Holies. I could erroneously do the same for my bedroom closet; but neither would be quite the same without the Mercy Seat. If you go back to Matityahu 21:12, in the Greek, you will see that neither Matityahu nor Yahshua called it the Temple; the point being that Ive seen no evidence that Yahweh dwelt there. Conjecture is fun; but If you have any proof that Yahweh dwelt in the so called "Second Temple"; I'd like to see it. Can Yahweh dwell in the presence of wickedness? Post Reply

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