I hope you are prepared for another chance to test your understanding of the Word of GOD and how to translate the Word of GOD into another language.
I will not translate this Section of the Word of GOD, as it is too much fun having the Holy Spirit REVEAL to us what He has placed within the Scriptures.
This section of the Word of GOD has been used to beat the sheep into believing they need to be have WORKS constantly or they do not have faith that is placing a burden upon the people which ABBA never intended for His people to carry.
And to the 2 female Greek scholars which always criticize, take your time translating this Scripture, I do not want you hurting yourselves by studying too hard.
Parallel Verses
James 2:14-17
NASB
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, �Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,� but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
ESV
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, �Go in peace, be warmed and filled,� without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
KJV
14What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
American Standard
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.
Young's literal translation
14What [is] the profit, my brethren, if faith, any one may speak of having, and works he may not have? is that faith able to save him? 15and if a brother or sister may be naked, and may be destitute of the daily food, 16and any one of you may say to them, �Depart ye in peace, be warmed, and be filled,� and may not give to them the things needful for the body, what [is] the profit? 17so also the faith, if it may not have works, is dead by itself.
These are just a few of the many translations which have mistranslated James 2:14-17.
Had the cemetery students any integrity and concern for the Authenticity and accuracy of translating the Scriptures, they would have questioned those teaching them the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures, and how they were taught to translate .
There is nothing wrong with admitting the English translations have errors, what is wrong is that the pastors which know about these errors and do not tell the people, then pride is in the camp, and must be dealt with.
I really do not understand why folks post these types of posts and then make the comment I will not tell you what I believe I have discovered with the brethern here...its just...well...for lack of better word...childish...when I read this comment """pride is in the camp, and must be dealt with.""" made about those called to teach and pastor the congregations being placed in a "pride camp"...I rolled my eyes...:rolleyes:..and then it came to mind...and the Scripture Speaks Louder than anyone's words...for you Father are Worthy of all Praise and your WORD never returns void!!!
Psalm 10 (KJV)
10 Why standest thou afar off, O Lord? why hidest thou thyself in times of trouble?
2 The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.
3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the Lord abhorreth.
4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
5 His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.
6 He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.
7 His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud: under his tongue is mischief and vanity.
8 He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages: in the secret places doth he murder the innocent: his eyes are privily set against the poor.
9 He lieth in wait secretly as a lion in his den: he lieth in wait to catch the poor: he doth catch the poor, when he draweth him into his net.
10 He croucheth, and humbleth himself, that the poor may fall by his strong ones.
11 He hath said in his heart, God hath forgotten: he hideth his face; he will never see it.
12 Arise, O Lord; O God, lift up thine hand: forget not the humble.
13 Wherefore doth the wicked contemn God? he hath said in his heart, Thou wilt not require it.
14 Thou hast seen it; for thou beholdest mischief and spite, to requite it with thy hand: the poor committeth himself unto thee; thou art the helper of the fatherless.
15 Break thou the arm of the wicked and the evil man: seek out his wickedness till thou find none.
16 The Lord is King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land.
17 Lord, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear:
18 To judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Pro 16:18
I have to admit that I didn't see it at first, but now our Sister Jude has made mention of it. Your whole mindset regarding how you deal with these mistranslations, to not share what you have learned, does suggest boastfulness. I'm afraid for you to be honest my Brother George, I feel that perhaps you haven't given yourself over completely to the Lord.
Actually George, I think you fail to realise the importance of yourself along with all of us as the body of Christ. We are so privileged right now to have three manifestations of God to edify us; The Word, The Body and The Spirit. If you are right to have found errors in the translation of the Word, is it not important that as a member of the body you should encourage us all with everything that you have found?
1Co 12:21-24
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
Do you think Brother that God has given us all the gifts to so ably translate scripture as you seem to have? Perhaps you should humble yourself before the Lord and cleave to the Body instead of trying to puff yourself up with this silliness.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up
These words may be difficult to hear, and God knows I myself have problems with haughtiness at times, I am blessed to have someone around me who drops me down a peg or two. I pray that the Lord gives you guidance and strength to grow in him.
Oh and please edify us all with what you have learned!
Sincerely in all the Love of our Saviour Jesus Christ, your Brother, Carl.
First of all, the translations of the Bible by different authors are only made to help people to better UNDERSTAND what God is speaking to His people... they has not one thing to do with the TRUTH OF WHAT GOD SPEAKS. Therefore, I haveno idea what God is talking about the translations being incorrect, nor do I know what George is talking about when he speaks against what those pastors he claims they are preaching that is wrong as to what the passage are suppose to mean. Either way, FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD, AND WORKS WITHOUT FAITH IS ALSO DEAD... AND THAT'S THE WORD OF GOD SPEAKING, TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD, DIRECTLY FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD!...
Since George claims SO MUCH SPIRITUAL INSIGHT IN KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT HE THINKS IS RIGHT AND WRONG IN THE INTERPRETATIONS AND TRANSLATIONS OF GOD'S WORD... AS IF HE HAS THE GIFT OF SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE :zzzz:
I SAY, George, FIRSTLY, why not share with us what YOU feel God has shown you regarding those passages you have posted. And tell us which translation is CORRECT AND WHAT IS THE REAL INTERPRETATION OF THOSE PASSAGES YOU HAVE POSTED?
FUNNY, Everybody is WRONG BUT GEORGE, YET HE CAN'T EXPLAIN NOT ONE MEANING OF THE PASSAGES HE POSTS... Secondly, George, maybe... just maybe you will be able to tell us what's wrong with these translations and interpretations and explain to us what GOD is REALLY saying as YOU so understands them:
Galatians 6:1-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. Bear one another�s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For each one shall bear his own load. LET HIM WHO IS TAUGHT THE WORD SHARE IN ALL GOOD THINGS WITH HIM WHO TEACHES.
Galatians 6:1-10 King James Version (KJV)
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. FOR IF A MAN THINK HIMSELF TO BE SOMETHING, WHEN HE IS NOTING, HE DECEIVES HIMSELF.But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For every man shall bear his own burden. Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Galatians 6:1-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. For each will have to bear his own load. Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches.
Galatians 6:1-10 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any sin, you who are spiritual [that is, you who are responsive to the guidance of the Spirit] are to restore such a person in a spirit of gentleness [not with a sense of superiority or self-righteousness], keeping a watchful eye on yourself, so that you are not tempted as well. Carry one another�s burdens and in this way you will fulfill the requirements of the law of Christ [that is, the law of Christian love]. For if anyone thinks he is something [special] when [in fact] he is nothing [special except in his own eyes], he deceives himself. But each one must carefully scrutinize his own work [examining his actions, attitudes, and behavior], and then he can have the personal satisfaction and inner joy of doing something commendable [a]without comparing himself to another. For every person will have to bear [with patience] his own burden [of faults and shortcomings for which he alone is responsible]. The one who is taught the word [of God] is to share all good things with his teacher [contributing to his spiritual and material support]
OR MAYBE GEORGE, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THIS TRANSLATION MUCH BETTER...
Galatians 6:1-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
Brothers,[a] if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. For each will have to bear his own load. Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches.
There is one thing that I do know according to what God teaches, when a person is burden down in their OWN SINS, they will always seek to find fault in others rather than seeing their OWN SINS AND FAULTS to keep the spotlight off them and their sins and faults... kinda like getting the speck out your brother's eye, yet you have a forest in your own eye and can't see beyond a blur... But Jesus says CUT DOWN THE FOREST IN YOUR OWN BACK YARD BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT THE BUSHES IN SOMEONE ELSE YARD THAT ONLY NEED TRIMMING... in other words. sweep around your OWN FRONT DOOR BEFORE YOU TRY TO SWEEP AROUND SOME ONE ELSE'S FRONT PORCH!.. make sure your house is CLEAN!:LOL::boxing:
GEORGE STATES:These are just a few of the many translations which have mistranslated James 2:14-17.
Ok, George, what translation is the correct translation of James 2:14-17? And just what is James speaking about in these passages?... help us out here so we will know which translation to read and believe...
Correction: OOH DEAR, this is not good..."they has not one thing to do with the TRUTH OF WHAT GOD SPEAKS". :lol:... I guess THEY DOESN'T ... :ROTFL::lol: Sorry, about the typo.. I intended to say, THIS HAS not one thing... not much better but you get the thought :lol:
I'm afraid for you to be honest my Brother George, I feel that perhaps you haven't given yourself over completely to the Lord.
I did not know that I was to give myself over completely to Yeshua, please send the Scripture which tells me I should do this, as the Just shall live by faith.
In the text of Scripture in James the translators have written
' FAITH without works Is DEAD', REALLY.
Then every person which names Yeshua being their Messiah, if they do not have works 24 hours 7 days a week, their faith is DEAD, LIFELESS, as a corpse, and as useless also.
How does a person come to Messiah, by WORKS or by FAITH, if by works then their salvation depends totally upon their own merits.
But if by FAITH in Messiah, then how can works be ,involved except the work of Yeshua.
Just do a little thinking, it does not take a lot of effort, just the power of the Holy Spirit to give understanding.
How about the Word of GOD,
Eph 2:8
for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift,
Eph 2:9
not of works, that no one may boast;
Eph 2:10
for of Him we are workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God did before prepare, that in them we may walk.
James and Pauls writings do not conflict one another, but they compliment each other, just do a little more of an in depth study and the Holy Spirit will open your understanding.
Since GOD Almighty is the one which has prepared good works for His people to be involved in, is ones faith DEAD until they are involved with the good works GOD has prepared for that person. ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Why did the learners / disciples ask Messiah to increase their FAITH, why not increase their works.
Luk 17:5
And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
Of course you need to completely surrender yourself to Jesus.
Mt 16:24,25
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Pr 3:5,6
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Ro 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
1 Co 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
If you 'are BOUGHT' with a price' how can you then say that you are not to 'surrender' yourself to Christ?
Also, if you don't surrender to Christ, how can you dwell in him?
I'm actually quite surprised I'm having to say all this my Brother!
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With regards to the other issue regarding Faith and Works. I really don't see why this is such a problem, Yes we are saved by Grace through Faith, and of course any Works we might do are a denial of the free gift of God. However what I think James is saying is that if we show no fruit, it shows that we were not truly born again in the first place, or that we have backslided.
Mt 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Mt 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mt 7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Lk 8:15
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Jn 15:8
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
We are supposed to bring forth fruit, not to justify ourselves, but because we are the Body of Christ!
14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith alone save him?
15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled, notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body, what doth it profit?
17) Even so faith, if it hath not works is dead, being alone.
James 2:14-17
Even the Apostle Paul agrees with thee words of James. Paul tells the believers to have faith without charity/love is to be nothing see I Corinthians 13:2b.
When he speaks of being saved by grace without works most Christian stop one verse to early to see that Paul and James are in complete agreement.
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9
Most Christians stop here, but read the following werse:
10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10
So that we see that James is not speaking of our own good works, but instead of the good works which the Holy Spirit will produce in every Christian.
The Holy Spirit gives us the ability to love, Romans 5:5.
For is Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Galatians 5:6
In other words Paul and James are stating that when we have the Holy Spirit our faith works by the Love of God given unto us.
Peter even speaks of this in I Peter 1:22 and John writes of it in I John 3:16-18. We even see it in Hebrews 6:4-10'.
But most importantly we see Jesus speaking of it as the only one of four grounds that produce good fruit in the Gospel of Luke 8:4-15; He even states that Christians are know by their love, John 13:34-35.
It is awesome when we understand all of the great things we can achieve when we've relinquished our lives to Jesus Christ, he is indeed able to clean our hearts, enabling us to produce good fruit in his might name!
