Thread: 2 Thess 1:1,6-10: �To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians�God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire�. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!�
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2 Thess 1:1,6-10: �To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians�God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire�. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!�
Posted : 6 Jul, 2014 07:53 PM
WE ARE ALL EAGERLY WAITING FOR OUR ETERNAL RENDEZVOUS WITH JESUS!
I Peter 1:13: �Therefore, prepare your minds for ACTION, and set your hope *FULLY* on the grace to be given YOU when Jesus Christ is *REVEALED*.
I Cor 1:7: �YOU do not lack any spiritual gift as YOU eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be *REVEALED*.�
Now the pre-tribbers claim that this glorious *REVEALING or *REVELATION* of Jesus will be *CONCEALED* BEFORE the beginning of the Great Tribulation. However, every other time the Word *REVEALED* {Greek-Apocalipsis} is used related to resurrection events it refers to the glorious REVEALING of Jesus on the *LAST DAY* of the Great Tribulation {See 2 Thess 1:7-10 & Luke 17:26-31}. And *CONCEALED* is the exact opposite of *REVEALED* and *APPEARED* according to every dictionary!
Titus 2:13: �*WE* wait for the *BLESSED HOPE*�the glorious *APPEARING* of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 9:28 �Jesus will *APPEAR* a 2nd time {And not a 3rd TIME!} to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him!�
Colossians 1:2; 3:4: �To the holy and faithful brothers in Christ.... When Christ, who is your life **APPEARS**, then you also will **APPEAR** with Him in glory.� I John 3:2,3: �When Jesus *APPEARS*, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. Everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure!!�
Matthew 24:29,30: Jesus says, �IMMEDIATELY AFTER the distress of those days {The Great Tribulation} the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will *APPEAR in the sky and the nations will *SEE* the Son of Man COMING on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory!!�
I John 2:28: �Dear children, continue in Him, so that when He *APPEARS* WE may be confident and unashamed before Him at His COMING!� {See 2 Thess 1:7-10; I Tim 6:14; Heb 9:28 & Col 3:4}
2 Tim 4:8: Paul said, There is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on THAT DAY�and not only to me, but to *ALL who have longed for His *APPEARING*!!� I Peter 5:4: �When the Chief Shepherd **APPEARS**, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away!�
2 Thess 1:1,6-10: �To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians�God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire�. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!�
A meeting at an appointed place and time is called a RENDEZVOUS. We have a RENDEZVOUS with eternity at the glorious *APPEARING and *REVEALING of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ *IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Great Tribulation.
2 Thess 1:1,6-10: �To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians�God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire�. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!�
Posted : 6 Jul, 2014 07:55 PM
THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, �All authority in heaven and on *EARTH has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!�
THE HARVEST IS THE END OF THE AGE!
Matthew 13:39-43: Jesus says, �The Harvest is the *END OF THE AGE and the harvesters are *ANGELS*. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the *END OF THE AGE*. The Son of Man will send out His *ANGELS*, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. *THEN the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father!�
I Corinthians 15:22-24: �For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits, then when He comes, those who belong to Him. Then the **END** will come, when He hands over the Kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.� And so when Jesus comes again at the *END OF THE AGE* He will hand over the Kingdom to God the Father!
Mark 13:10 Jesus says, �The *AGE TO COME* is Eternal Life!�I Timothy 6:19: In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the *COMING AGE*, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life!�
THE DISCIPLES ASKED JESUS, �WHAT WILL BE THE SIGN OF YOUR COMING AND THE END OF THE AGE??�
Is it a pre-trib rapture or the persecution and testing of God's saints and a great falling away at the beginning of the Great Tribulation??
Matthew 24:3,9-13: The disciples asked Jesus, �What will be the sign of your Coming and the *END OF THE AGE*?? Jesus answered�.. {During the 1260-dayGreat Tribulation} �Then *YOU* will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and *YOU will be hated by all nations because of Me. At that time many will turn away from the Faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of *MOST* will grow cold,{THE GREAT APOSTASY} but he {The Called, Chosen & Faithful-Rev 17:14b} who stands firm to the *END will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to *ALL NATIONS*, and then the *END will come!�
And then we find just before the beginning of the 1260-day Great tribulation that there will be saints saved by the blood of Jesus from *EVERY Tribe, Language and Nation:
Revelation 5:9: �You {Jesus} are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from *EVERY Tribe, Language, People and Nation!�
Just after the coming of the 4 Horsemen in Revelation 6:1-8 and just after the start of the 1260-day Great tribulation; we see this scene in Heaven:
Rev 6:9-11: When He {Jesus) opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain {MARTYRS} because of the Word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, �How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until You judge the inhabitanrts of the earth and avenge our blood?� Then each of them was given a *WHITE ROBE*, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed {Martyrs just like Jesus} as they had been was completed!
Rev 8:9, 13,14: After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count from **EVERY** nation, tribe and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing WHITE ROBES......Then one of the {24- See Rev 4:4,10} elders asked me, �These in WHITE ROBES�who are they and where do they come from?�...And he said, �These are they who come out of the Great Tribulatoion {Tribulation MARTYRS}; they have washed their ROBES and made them WHITE in the blood of the Lamb. At present the God's Word has only been translated into about 2,000 of the 6,000 languages in the world and faith comes by hearing and reading the Word of God!
And so this prophecy in Matthew 24:13 above which must take place *BEFORE* the Harvest and 2nd Coming of Jesus will only be fulfilled *DURING the Great Tribulation!
The Heavenly rewards for the faithful and courageous *MARTYRS* is one of the most important central themes in the book of Revelation. For they will reign with Jesus in Heaven and according to Revelation 7:14-17: They are before the Throne of God and God will spread His tent over them before the Second Coming of Jesus. They will receive WHITE ROBES washed in the blood of the Lamb. Never again will they hunger or thirst and God Himself will wipe every tear from their eyes. Jesus will be their Shepherd and will lead them to springs of Living Water.
2 Thess 1:1,6-10: �To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians�God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire�. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!�
2 Thess 1:1,6-10: �To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians�God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire�. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!�
Posted : 7 Jul, 2014 11:13 AM
WILL THE COURAGEOUS TRIBULATION SAINTS SUFFER THE WRATH OF GOD??
God has always allowed His people to suffer tribulation and trials because they purify and perfect their faith and will gain countless eternal rewards when Jesus Christ is *REVEALED. There are over 40,000 saints martyred every year and the main culprit is no longer just Islam and the Satanic Roman Catholic Church. Millions of saints were martyred by the Communist atheist countries after 1917 in Russia and after 1948 in China and then in North Korea and Vietnam. Many more millions were killed by Japan 1937-1945 and by the Fascists in Italy and Germany 1922-1945.
Romans 8:35-37: �Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?... For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered. No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us!� I Peter 1:6-8:���In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is *REVEALED.��
I Peter 2:20b,21: �But if you suffer for doing good and endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow IN HIS STEPS.�
I Peter 4:12,13: �Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But REJOICE that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when His glory is *REVEALED!�
Rev 2:10: Jesus says, �Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the Crown of Life.�
Read other persecution verses: Matthew 5:10-12; Romans 5:3; Heb 13:35-40; 2 Tim 3:12; 2 Cor 1:7-10; I Thess 3:3,4; Phil 1:29; Phil 3:10; Rev 12:11; Rev 13:9,10 & Rev 14:13.
������ The courageous and faithful Tribulation saints will *NOT* be hurt by God�s *WRATH* as shown in Rev 14:9-11; 15:1,7; 16:1,19; or in any of the 7 trumpet or 7 bowl plagues as explained in Rev 9:4,20,21 and Rev 16:2,4-6,9,10,21; or in any of the plagues of God�s 2 witnesses as per Rev 11:6,10; or in *ETERNAL HELL*: Rev 14:9-11: �If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he will drink of the wine of God�s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of *HIS WRATH*.� He will be tormented with burning sulfur and the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever.�
The pre-tribs often confuse the wrath of God with the persecution from the anti-christ. They are not the same thing. The wrath of God is intended for the ungodly and will be poured upon them and them only. The Lord knows His target and He never misses. Jesus warned in Matthew 10:28, �And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.�
In Rev 18:1-24 we read about the plagues that will destroy the headquarters of 666 during the Great Tribulation. This evil city on 7 hills {See Rev 17:9} is called �Babylon� which Peter implied was the nickname for Rome in 2 Peter 5:13. In Rev 18:4 a voice from Heaven will order God's saints to stay away from Babylon {Rome-That great seaport-Rev 18:17-19} so that they will not participate in her sins or be hurt by God's wrath which will completely destroy Rome with many horrific plagues.
There are 260 verses from Revelation chapters 6 thru 20 and 128 of these verses or 49% tell of the wrath of God to unbelievers, 666, his False Prophet and Rome. However, not even one of these verses tells of any wrath of God toward His courageous Tribulation saints. Even pre-tribbers and mid-tribbers reluctantly agree that believers during the Great Tribulation will be exempt from the wrath of God.
Jesus says, �My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one!� John 17:15
Jesus says, �Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell!!�
2 Thess 1:1,6-10: �To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians�God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire�. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!�
Posted : 7 Jul, 2014 11:18 AM
WHO IS THE WOMAN IN REVELATION 12 AND WHO ARE HER OFFSPRING??
Galatians 4:22,23,28,31: �Abraham had 2 sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the Free Woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a "PROMISE"!....You brother, like Isaac {Sarah's son}, are children of "PROMISE"....The slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the Free Woman's son. Therefore, brothers, **WE** are not children of the slave woman {Hagar} but of the Free "WOMAN"{Sarah}!!� According to Galatians 3:16 Jesus is also the offspring of Abraham and Sarah !! Galatians 3:29: �If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.�
Revelation 12:1,5,17: A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of 12 stars on her head.........She gave birth to a son, a male child {Jesus}, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her Child was snatched up to God {The Father} and to His throne....The woman's offspring are those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus!�
Just before the coming of 666 and the 1260-day or 42-month Great Tribulation in Revelation 13:1 we read in Rev 12:17; 13:1,5,7: Then the dragon {Satan} was enraged at the woman {Sarah} and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--THOSE WHO OBEY GOD'S COMMANDMENTS AND HOLD TO THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS!!" And the dragon {Satan} stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw Beast {666} coming out of the Sea {Or Abyss or Hell as per Rev 11:7 & 17:8 & Luke 8:31}.....The Beast will exercise his authority for 42 months..... He will be given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he will be given authority over **EVERY** tribe, people, language and nation.
And so according to Rev 12:6,14 Satan will attack some of God's saints but they will be protected in God's sanctuary in the wilderness for 1260 days. Then in Rev 12:17 Satan will attack the rest of God's saints �WHO OBEY GOD'S COMMANDMENTS AND HOLD TO THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS� **just before** the coming of 666 and the beginning of the 1260-day or 42-month Great Tribulation as shown in Revelation 13:1-5.
And so Revelation 12 also shows that the pre-trib rapture of God's courageous saints at the beginning of the Great Tribulation is a ridiculous fairy tale. Since some of God's saints will be protected in the wilds for 1260 days and Satan will make war with the rest of God's saints WHO OBEY GOD'S COMMANDMENTS AND HOLD TO THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS JUST **BEFORE** THE COMING OF 666!!
Revelation 12:11: "They {The Tribulation Martyrs} overcame him {Satan} by the blood of the Lamb and by the Word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death."
God will miraculously take care of His Faithful and Courageous Tribulation Saints {Just as he took care of the Israelites for 40 years in the Wilderness} even though they won�t be able to buy or sell anything as per Rev 13:17a. {See Matthew 6:25-34 where storing up items are forbidden}�
Can't God's NT saints go through the Great Tribulation without suffering the wrath of God, as did the OT saints in Egypt when God sent many horrific plagues on Egyptians because of Pharoah. Remember the 3 Jewish saints who were not delivered from going through the fiery furnace which was heated 7 times hotter than usual. Indeed they went right through the middle of that persecution and the Lord Jesus went through it with them. Yet another example of God sending His saints through tribulation rather than keeping them from it, is Daniel being thrown into the den of hungry lions. He went right through the middle of that persecution, but God sent an angel to close the mouths of the lions. That great saint brought much glory to God in that tribulation.
This will come as a tremendous shock for those who teach the Prosperity Gospel and who are mainly seeking earthly treasures rather than eternal Heavenly Rewards. They teach: If you accept Jesus as your Savior you have a free pass to Heaven and God forbid that you should suffer any persecution or go through the Great Tribulation; which fits in with the Prosperity Gospel and pre-trib doctrines which are designed to increase church membership at the expense of the Truth. When is the last time you heard a sermon on the virtues and courage of the many thousands of present-day martyrs?? And this is probably why there will be a great FALLING AWAY {THE GREAT APOSTASY} at the beginning of the Great Tribulation.
During the Great tribulation a Voice from Heaven will say: Rev 14:13: �Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.� �Yes� says the Spirit, �they will REST from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.
Heb 4:9,10: �There remains a MOST HIGH SABBATH REST or 7th DAY REST FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD: for anyone who enters GOD�S REST also rests from his own work.� 2 Peter 3:18 {RSV}: But grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and to the �DAY OF ETERNITY!� Amen.�
There are some pre-tribbers who wrongly teach that ALL of God's Tribulation saints will be martyred during the Great Tribulation. This belief is refuted in Rev 13:9,10 & Mark 13:20: Revelation 13:9,10: �He who has an ear, let him hear. If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.� Luke 21:16: Jesus says, �They will put **SOME** of you to death.�
2 Thess 1:1,6-10: �To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians�God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire�. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!�
Posted : 7 Jul, 2014 09:43 PM
Richard you said:
"However, not even one of these verses tells of any wrath of God toward His courageous Tribulation saints"
But Christians will be beheaded during the tribulation and they will be martyrs!
