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Author Thread: New Bible Versions For Revelation 9: 15, 18 and II Peter 2: 1-3
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New Bible Versions For Revelation 9: 15, 18 and II Peter 2: 1-3
Posted : 21 Nov, 2013 08:14 AM

New Bible Versions For Revelation 9: 15, 18 and II Peter 2: 1-3



I have checked various popular Bible versions, all based upon Westcott

and Hort's Greek text except the NKJ, on several verses I suspected of

changing wordings so that the doctrine taught in the Textus Receptus

is diminished. Almost always I have found that the new versions do

diminish the doctrines taught in the Textus Receptus for some verses..



Two interesting verses for which I found that some of the new versions

have wordings so different from the King James Version that they tend

to obscure the doctrines taught are Revelation 9: 14-19 and II Peter

2: 1-3.



For Revelation 9; 15 and 9: 18 the older English translations, the

Tyndale, Geneva and King James, all have "the third part of men,"

while most of the recent English versions have "a third of men" or

"kill a third of mankind." Which versions are right depends upon the

meaning of the Greek word tritos in Revelation 9: 15 and 9: 18.



The Strong's Exhaustive Concordance for third is Number 5154, tritos,

from 5140, "as noun, a third part, or as adverb, third time,thirdly."



"A third of men" would more likely be interpreted as killing one third

of men, while "a third part of men" could be interpreted as meaning

killing a part of men, not literally killing one third of all men, but

some part of man's being. The second important clue about this

metaphor is that is says in Revelation 9:17 and in 9: 18 that the

third part of men are killed by what comes out of the mouths of those

in this army of two hundred thousand thousand. The third part of man

is killed by words which come out of the mouths of the huge number of

horsemen, who represent false prophets since what they say and write

causes this to happen.



The false prophets kill the spiritual life of men. But the dominant

"hermeneutic" of dispensationalism says scripture should be

interpreted literally. So, following this "hermeneutic" the new Bible

versions, or most of them, ignored the Strong's definition of tritos,

and translated "triton ton anthropon" as "a third of mankind" or as "a

third of the human race" or "a third of all the human race." The same

Greek,. "triton ton anthropon" is in Revelation 9: 18, and translated

in the new versions as "a third of mankind."



The Tyndale Bible of about 1525 was the first English translation

directly from the Greek and Hebrew, and the later Geneva Bible and

King James Versions were highly influenced by the Tyndale verse

wordings. For II Peter 2: 1-3 it has "There were false prophets among

the people even as there shall be false teachers among you: which

privily shall bring in damnable sects, even denying the Lord that hath

bought them, and bring on their own heads swift damnation, and many

shall follow their damnable ways, by which the way of truth| shall be

evil spoke and through covetousness shall they with feigned words make

merchandise of you, whose judgment is not far off and their damnation

sleepeth not."



While the older English translations from the Textus Receptus all have

"make merchandise of you" the newer English versions translate

emporeuomai as "they will exploit you," or "will exploit you,"



Emporeusontai, future tense, middle voice and indicative mode, is

from emporeuomai, "to carry on business, to trade in, to cheat, make a

gain of, exploit." But as a metaphor, the translation "make

merchandise of you" is an accurate English translation of

emporeusontai, because "will exploit you" is not as much of a metaphor

than to make merchandise of you. It is more of an interpretation of

making merchandise of you. To allow the metaphor to have its power,

the Greek word must be translated by an English word or phrase which

is closest to the meaning of emporeusontai.



The New American Standard Bible has "and in their greed they will

exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not

idle, and their destruction is not asleep."



The New King James has "By covetousness they will exploit you with

deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and

their destruction does not slumber."



But the Douay-Rheims follows the Tyndale, Geneva and KJV and has "And

through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of

you. Whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their

perdition slumbereth not."



The Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition is from a translation of the

Bible from the Latin Vulgate into English. The Duay New Testament was

published in 1582. According to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douay%E2%80%93Rheims_Bible "The

Douay�Rheims Bible is a translation of the Latin Vulgate, which is

itself a translation from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. The

Vulgate was largely created due to the efforts of Saint Jerome

(345�420), whose translation was declared to be the authentic Latin

version of the Bible by the Council of Trent.........the English

wording of the Rheims New Testament follows more or less closely the

Protestant version first produced by William Tyndale in 1525, though

the base text for the Rheims translators appears to be the revision of

Tyndale found in an English and Latin diglot New Testament, published

by Miles Coverdale in Paris in 1538."



So, the Douay-Rheims New Testament is closer to the three early

English versions, the Tyndale, Geneva and the King James, than to the

modern versions which appear to be influenced by the theology of

dispensationalism and its literalist system of interpretation.



The New International Version has "In their greed these teachers will

exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been

hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping."



The NIV translates logois, words, as stories, which does not follow

the Greek. And more important, the NIV translates emporeusontai as

exploit rather than make merchandise of you.



Avoid metaphoric language, because John Darby, C. I. Scofield, Lewis

S. Chafer and their followers teach that prophecy - and all scripture

- must be literal. Making merchandise is metaphoric and more

spiritually powerful than exploiting you, because making merchandise

of you means reducing you to "merchandise," reducing you back to the

level of the natural man, who does not receive the things of the

Spirit (I Corinthians 2: 14).. Merchandise is of the flesh, of the

world, and of the carnal mind, You are made merchandise of by what

the many false prophets say and write.



Exploiting you does not necessarily mean changing you, that is,

changing you so fundamentally that you remain mired in the flesh, in

that which is physical and do not discern the things of the Spirit.

Making merchandise of you as a metaphor changes you, and can change

you so that you are not able to know the truth of scripture.



But to discover which verses are translated so differently in the new

Bible versions that the doctrine given in the Textus Receptus is

diminished, made unclear, or eliminated requires searching through a

lot of verses and through several new versions. That is a job, and

requires a long attention span. And - sometimes the Greek text, which

is the Westcott-Hort, has a different wording for a verse than the

Textus Receptus, or the Westcott-Hort does not have that verse at all.



Some followers of dispensationalism use the King James Version, and

this is a resource which can open up the understanding of the

dispensationalists better than can the recent versions - if something

from the Holy Spirit begins that opening up to truth. But if a

follower of dispensationalism uses only a recent Bible version, such

as the New International Version, then run away from him or her.

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New Bible Versions For Revelation 9: 15, 18 and II Peter 2: 1-3
Posted : 22 Nov, 2013 07:48 AM

Revelation 9:14-19 and II Peter 2:1-3 as well as Matthew 24: 11 are important prophecy texts which provide knowledge about how a huge number of false prophets will deceive many and lead them away from sound doctrine into false doctrines. The falling away of II Thessalonians 2:3-4 and the leavening of the Kingdom of God of Luke 13:18-21 also give us important knowledge about this topic.



The NIV for Matthew 24: 11 says "and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people." It is not easy to diminish this doctrine in Matthew 24: 11 But Revelation 9:14-19 presents the doctrine in the language of metaphor. Dispensationalism begins from the assumptions that God now has two peoples, not one and that prophecy - and all scripture should be interpreted in a literal way, discouraging the admission that much of prophecy is in metaphoric language. And II Peter 2: 3 - "through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you" is metaphoric in that people are not literally merchandise. To make merchandise of people as a metaphor means to change them, while in the NIV exploit you does not necessarily mean to change your spiritual state and ability to discern and love the truth. The NIV avoids the metaphoric meaning in II Peter 2: 3. It also avoids the metaphoric meaning of Revelation 9: 15 and 9: 18 by translating "triton ton anthropon" as "a third of mankind," meaning one third of all people will be killed. On the other hand, the Tyndale, Geneva and KJV all have "the third part of men," which can mean man in three parts is "killed" in one part. That is. one part of three part man is "killed." This provides far different knowledge that saying "a third of mankind" is to be literally killed.



The New King James has "So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind." So, the New King James says the same thing as the NIV, that a third of mankind will be killed, meaning the killing is literal.



But the New King James is supposedly translated from the Textus Receptus and not from the Westcott-Hort Greek text. It does not matter - for Revelation 9: 15, and 9: 18 - whether the English is translated for the Textus Receptus or from the Westcott-Hort.



What then might be behind the translation of tritos in the form of "triton ton anthropon" as "a third of mankind?" Remember that dispensationalism says prophecy should be interpreted in a literal way.



Since the New King James Version was first published in 1982, it is not surprising that many of the people who contributed to it were dispensationalists.



ARTHUR LEONARD FARSTAD was the main editor of the group who created the New King James Version, first published in 1982. "Arthur L. Farstad served as the Executive Editor of the New King James Version...He holds a Ph.D. from Dallas Theological Seminary."



Dallas Theological Seminary was founded by Lewis S. Chafer, one of the three main classical dispensationalists, along with John Darby and C.I. Schfield. The Seminary has remained an important institution for the promotion of dispensationalist theology.



Dr Ronald B. Allen was the Old Testament editor of the New King James Version, and has a Doctor of Theology degree from Dallas Theological Seminary.



Dr Thomas Ice is a well known dispensationalist who was on the committee that created the New King James Version. Ice got his Masters of Theology degree in 1981 from guess where, Dallas Theological Seminary.



Dr David E. Garland was on the Old Testament committee group, and he is apparently a Southern Baptist, having received his Ph.D. from The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Now, in earlier decades, for example, back in the forties and fifties, the Southern Baptists leaders were not all followers of dispensationalism. But - starting in the sixties, the Southern Baptist Convention was taken over by what was then called Fundamentalism, which was essentially dispensationalism.



Dr. Louis Goldberg contributed to the NKJV, Professor of Theology and Jewish Studies

Moody Bible Institute. Moody is a dispensationalist institution.



Dr. Eugene H. Merrill contributed to the Old Testament. He was Associate Professor of Semantics and Old Testament Studies, Dallas Theological Seminary



Dr. Allen P. Ross also contributed to the Old testament, He was Professor of Old Testament,

Dallas Theological Seminary



Dr. Boyce Blackwelder contributed to the New Testament, He was a professor at

Anderson College, Anderson, Indiana, which is part of the Church of God denomination, and probably dispensationalist.



Dr. Virtus E. Gideon contributed to the New Testament. He was Professor of New Testament and Greek

Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and probably dispensationalist..



There were a few on the NKJV committee who were probably not followers of dispensationalist theology, such as Dr. Robert L. Reymond. Professor of Systematic Theology and Apologetics, Covenant Theological Seminary, St. Louis, Missouri. Yet the Committee was dominated by dispensationalists.

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New Bible Versions For Revelation 9: 15, 18 and II Peter 2: 1-3
Posted : 23 Nov, 2013 06:31 AM

Revelation 12:4

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.



Hello HB



I like how your start your posts alluding to allegories and metaphors but when you turn literal you loose me.



When we take the above verse into consideration and apply a literal interpretation to it we have some type of future demonic force in outer space hurling stars down to earth fulfilling some sort of left behind scenario that is best left for the minds of ungodly movie producers to play with. Amen?



Or, we can go to the Old Testament where we will find out that the tail of the Dragon consists of the prophets who teach lies because they're being influenced by Satan (the dragon).



Or, put in laymen terms the tail of the dragon is today�s clergy speaking untruths about the Bible causing the third part of the stars to fall to earth.



Christians are the stars in the heavens and the third part in question is the soul of every one of these Christians who consist of a body, a spirit and a soul. The soul is essentially the mind of a person, and when Christins are taught false doctrines about the things of God these thoughts in their mids will stop the sanctification process and eventually produce evil fruit causing them to loose what could have been their inheritance. (See 1st Corinthians 15 where Paul alludes to Christians as being stars)



On the other hand when people are taught the truth about the Bible, their faith that consists of what they believe in is being increased from hearing the true word of God.( Faith comes by hearing the word of God and it takes faith to please God)



In turn this substantially increases the likelihood of God answering their prayers in a manner that can be only done by God. This in turn causes us to glorify God even more as His wondrous powers are revealed on earth. (Obvious signs and wonders)



For this reason I continue to say when the truth returns to the church,and Christians begin to worship God in spirit and in truth ,is when miracles will return to the church in the same manner that they were done by the first century church.



Blessings to you,



Doug

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