Author	Thread: THE BIBLICAL BALANCE: Do you have it? Can you even see it?
mcubed View Profile History	THE BIBLICAL BALANCE: Do you have it? Can you even see it? Posted : 19 Sep, 2013 10:18 PM You know G-d did not make the gospel of Arminianism NOR the gospel of Calvinism!!!!!!!!!!!! Like a river that flows between two banks, so the truth of G-d's Word flows between the extremes of Calvinism and Arminianism. As it has been pointed out, both are true and both are false. Election and predestination are Biblical doctrines. G-d knows everything and therefore He cannot learn anything or be surprised by anything. Thus, He knows, and has known from eternity past, who will exercise their free will to accept Him and who will reject Him. The former are the elect, the latter are non-elect. As D.L. Moody once said, the "whosoever wills are the elect, and the whosoever wont's are the non-elect". Every person who is not saved will have only himself to blame; G-d will not send anyone to hell, but many people will choose to go there by exercising their free will to reject Messiah. On the other hand, no one who is saved will be able to take any of the credit. Our salvation, from start to finish, is 100% G-d's work, and is based entirely on the finished work of the Cross. We were dead in trespasses and sins, destined for hell, when G-d in His grace, drew us to Himself, convinced us of our sin and our need for a Savior, and gave us the authority to call Y-shua Lord. Is this grace, this wooing, irresistible? No, we have free will and we can resist, even to the damnation of our souls, but G-d does everything short of making us puppets to draw us into His family. Moreover the concept of a limited atonement, that Y-shua only died for the elect, and not for the sins of all people, is clearly unbiblical. The Bible is crystal clear that Y-shua' death on the cross was for all people, and that there is sufficient power in His blood to cleanse away every sin. "Whosoever will may come" is meaningless if man has no free will and no ability to choose G-d. It is imperative to remember that both Calvinism and Arminianism are systems of theology devised by G-dly, devout, Bible-believing men in the 1600's. Both systems are based on the Word of G-d, and both contain essential elements of truth, but neither can be substituted for reading and believing the Word of G-d. The Apostolic church knew nothing of either system; they simply believed what G-d had revealed. The difficulty arises when it seems that some of what G-d has revealed contradicts something else He revealed. How can man be absolutely free and G-d absolutely sovereign and directive simultaneously? How can salvation be entirely G-d's work, yet require the cooperation of mere men simultaneously? These are unanswerable questions ultimately. The Bible teaches both the sovereignty of G-d and the free will of man. It teaches what appears to be unconditional perseverance in some places and conditional perseverance in others. These things can never be intellectually reconciled because G-d is simply too big for us to understand. Both systems of theology emphasize one set of Scriptures while either ignoring or drastically twisting and explaining away others. We are not called to understand G-d, only to believe Him. I am a free moral agent, responsible for my own sin, hopelessly lost. Y-shua not only died for me, He drew me to Himself with bands of loving-kindness and grace, convicted me of my sin, gave me the power to call Him Lord, and will one day present me faultless before His presence with great joy. I am, by His grace, His child. And yet, I am still free to walk with Him or not to walk with Him. And what applies to me, applies to every human being. Y-shua died for all of us and desires fellowship with all of us. Whosoever will may come and receive of His forgiveness and grace and salvation. Innocent babies who die are safe in heaven. G-d's election excludes no one; Y-shua' atonement includes everyone. As has been pointed out, we are looking at two sides of the same coin. Election is G-d's side, free will is our side. Someone once said that as we enter life, we see emblazoned over the gateway the words "Whosoever will may come"; then as we enter and look back at the backside of the same gateway, we see inscribed what the words "Elect from the foundation of the earth". Election is G-d's side of the coin we call salvation, human responsibility is our side. Rather than interpreting the Bible based on any theological or philosophical structure, it behooves us to simply read and believe the Word of G-d. As we teach the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation, verse by verse, in context, we will at times sound like staunch Calvinists, preaching those passages which emphasize G-d's sovereignty, while at other times we will seem like devout Arminians, as we preach those passages which emphasize man's responsibility. The key to successful ministry is balance - to stay focused on the Word of G-d, and not become distracted by the doctrines of men. Personally, I believe in the whosevers for salvation, yet I believe in the security of the believer..... Post Reply
View Profile History	THE BIBLICAL BALANCE: Do you have it? Can you even see it? Posted : 19 Sep, 2013 10:42 PM I appreciate what you are attempting to do. I really do, sincerely. However, this article (which I have read before) is loaded with error. Would you like me to break it down point by point? Post Reply
View Profile History	THE BIBLICAL BALANCE: Do you have it? Can you even see it? Posted : 19 Sep, 2013 10:53 PM For the record, I respect you mcubed as both my sister in Yeshua and as a natural born Jew who believes in Yeshua as Messiah (Yeshua Ha'Mashiach). Perhaps, you and I could enter into a civil and respectful discussion over the content of this article without diversion or interruption from others here. I would be open to that if you would also. Post Reply
mcubed View Profile History	THE BIBLICAL BALANCE: Do you have it? Can you even see it? Posted : 19 Sep, 2013 11:19 PM I think that would be great. Pick a time and date and let me know if the play ground (e-mail or on forums). I am sure we can work something out. I have told you in e-mail, but want to also make public I have the upmost respect for you and believe you are a MAN of G-d. Shalom Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	THE BIBLICAL BALANCE: Do you have it? Can you even see it? Posted : 20 Sep, 2013 04:08 AM :yay: Now that is iron sharpening iron !!!!!!! Post Reply
View Profile History	THE BIBLICAL BALANCE: Do you have it? Can you even see it? Posted : 20 Sep, 2013 05:53 AM A couple thoughts, not a debate. Any credence given to any tag of man is doshonor of the lord. I don't see where Calvi.ism has any foundation for truth. They can not back there doctrine by the word of God. They do not accept the word of God as truth. Thy words is without falsehood and the balance is the Holy Spirit. Post Reply
View Profile History	THE BIBLICAL BALANCE: Do you have it? Can you even see it? Posted : 20 Sep, 2013 05:57 AM A couple thoughts, not a debate. Any credence given to any tag of man is doshonor of the lord. I don't see where Calvi.ism has any foundation for truth. They can not back there doctrine by the word of God. They do not accept the word of God as truth. Thy words is without falsehood and the balance is the Holy Spirit. Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	THE BIBLICAL BALANCE: Do you have it? Can you even see it? Posted : 20 Sep, 2013 07:59 AM :ROFL: oh pj you are a comedian. I have been showing you scripture for years, and you deny the God of he bible for the finney god. Here is just one fact of God holy word. As many as were ordained to eternal life, believed" (Acts 13:48) Post Reply
View Profile History	THE BIBLICAL BALANCE: Do you have it? Can you even see it? Posted : 20 Sep, 2013 10:14 AM One can call me a comedian all they want. I see it as a front to conceal the truth. Here is a picture of those ordained to eternal life. The Word of God is no comedy: The Will of God is revealed to man through the word of God. Then cometh faith for any given topic, bible faith is not general it is always specific. Knowing this that God never changes, nor does his word. The will of God was first revealed to man in Genesis: Gen 1:27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:28 And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. This truth has been reestablished in the earth three times the final and current decree was unto Abraham. Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; With all wherewith the ground teemeth, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they delivered. Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; As the green herb have I given you all. Genesis 12 (American Standard Version) Gen 12:1 Now Jehovah said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto the land that I will show thee: Gen 12:2 and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make they name great; and be thou a blessing; Gen 12:3 and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed. Note what is said about the Blessing in this setting Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. Gal 3:9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. The Blessing Was and Still Is The Gospel and The Gospel is To All Men and it Covers Every Area of Life in AboundANCE. Man Has to Accept The Gospel To Be a member in The family of God. Post Reply
teach_ib View Profile History	THE BIBLICAL BALANCE: Do you have it? Can you even see it? Posted : 20 Sep, 2013 04:06 PM Mccubed, nice post. Based on the Scriptures, as all Biblical discussions should be. Thanks for sharing. Post Reply
View Profile History	THE BIBLICAL BALANCE: Do you have it? Can you even see it? Posted : 21 Sep, 2013 07:26 PM The original article in the OP was written by a former director of the Calvary Chapel Bible College. It is consistent with the view of Calvary Chapel founder Chuck Smith. I have read the original article and also an article entitled "Calvinism, Arminianism &The Word of God: A Calvary Chapel Perspective" written by Chuck Smith. I am currently doing some additional research in an effort to offer a fair critique of their position, Post Reply