Thread: When is The FIRST Resurrection? A Rapture issue.
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When is The FIRST Resurrection? A Rapture issue.
Posted : 26 Mar, 2009 11:48 AM
Hi Everyone,
Here is an article I wrote some time ago dealing with the First Resurrection and when it occurs.
When is the First Resurrection of the Saints?
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
When John spoke of the "first resurrection" he was obviously speaking of FUTURE events from his point in time (first century). Remember, after Rev. 4:1, John was recording the FUTURE! So, when he referred to the "first resurrection," he was obviously speaking of a FUTURE resurrection. Of course he would not take into account past events, like Jesus' resurrection! If I said to you, "Go stand on the curb, and the FIRST car that comes by will be me," do you understand that I mean no other car has ever driven by on that road? Of course not! You understand that "first" applies only to the time following your arival at the curb! One must view my words from the perspective that I intended them. In the same way, John was speaking of the first future resurrection from his point in time, some six decades after Jesus was raised! And his intended audience knew full well that he was seeing and recording FUTURE events! Therefore, in their thinking his words would necessarily exclude the resurrection of Jesus, which Paul said was the "firstfruits" of our resurrection to come. However, if John wrote that this future resurrection after the tribulation is the "first resurrection," and yet there would be another future resurrection for the Church 7 years before this one, that makes John a liar! There can be only one "first resurrection" after John wrote Revelation! And it is AFTER the tribulation.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Above we see the the Apostles are promised to be raised at THE LAST DAY.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
In each case above, Jesus stated clearly that the Apostles and the rest of the Christians would be resurrected "AT THE LAST DAY". This prohibits any possibility of there being a future resurrection prior to THE LAST DAY, if so then it could not be last.
In 1 Thess. 4: 16 Paul clearly stated that the "Dead in Christ" will be resurrected PRIOR to the Rapture.
16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
And since Christians are resurrected on the LAST DAY, necessarily requires the Resurrection to be Post Tribulational since John stated with absolute clarity that the FIRST Resurrection includes those Christians who suffered and died during the Tribulation.
Now let's take a look at The Harvest of the Wheat and the Tares.
Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
I remember saying that to you too on the Remarriage post,
but i also added that "Finally A Post of Yours I Agree" with".
But at that time, i was mixing you up with smokey from the 10 virgins Post...& I thought You were a pre-tribber...
I thought it was a little strange the other day when Lydia said that you had steered Her to a site that helped her see the error in the pre-trib theory.
Just one small question about "Definition" on this post though...
I have always considred the Cathching away & Gathering of the Resurected Dead & the Transformed Living ALL INCLUSIVE of the Very word "Rapture"...
So the statement the the dead are resurected PRIOR to the Rapture didnt quite make sense at 1st...
But I can see how that distinguishment between the 2 Works too..Just a little confusing...Thats all..
May require some further defining on that issue..but actually pretty clear...
:prayingm:Bless U BRO
Keep up the good work...i'll go read the rest of your posts now:waving:
I agree with Dan, excellent post my brother! I have also read the other 2 and they offer very clear and accurate teachings that should help others to possibly rethink their view.
All of these posts are excellent. I would add the 2 Thess. 2 scriptures. To me, these are a clear and simple explanation of the timing. If you cannot see it after that, then you want to be deceived.
2:1
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2:2
not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
2:3
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
2:4
who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2:5
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2:6
And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
2:7
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
2:8
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
In verse 1, Paul is explaining about when they will be gathered together with Jesus. Since he is talking to a church we can know certain things. He is talking about the Rapture because they want to know what will affect them, and he is addressing them personally.
In verse 3, he is telling them that first the Anti- Christ has to be revealed. Most agree this is half way through the tribulation.
In verse 8, we see how Jesus destroys the Anti-Christ. I think you will find this consistent with the same story in Revelation. I think you will find this whole passage consistent with all the rapture scriptures, thus proving that post tribulation is the only scriptural rapture.
Regarding defining terms. You inquired...."I have always considred the Cathching away & Gathering of the Resurected Dead & the Transformed Living ALL INCLUSIVE of the Very word "Rapture"...
So the statement the the dead are resurected PRIOR to the Rapture didnt quite make sense at 1st...
But I can see how that distinguishment between the 2 Works too..Just a little confusing...Thats all..
May require some further defining on that issue..but actually pretty clear..."
WALTER: from a technical standpoint they are two events that occur simultaneously on one day called "the Day of The Lord". The Resurrection of the "dead in Christ" which would be all of those who are in Christ and that would include all Old Testament Saints.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
and then the Rapture or "Gathering together" of those who are alive and remaining go next.
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I would like to point out some interesting similarities among three passages that are all about the same event.
Mat 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man.... COMING ON THE CLOUDS... of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He will send....HIS ANGELS.... with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and they will GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mark adds...from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.
Notice that Jesus comes on the CLOUDS for His POST-Tribulational return
Notice the Angels
Notice the Great sound of a TRUMPET.
Notice the GATHERING of Christ's elect [Christians]
Now look at 1 Thess 4.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM....IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Again we see the same elements....Christ descends from heaven
Notice that the Archangel is involved...so we have angels
Notice the TRUMP which is a TRUMPET
Notice we are "caught up" or "gathered together"
Notice we meet the Lord...in the Clouds.
Look at 1Cor15:
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for THE TRUMPET shall sound, and the DEAD SHALL BE RAISED incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.
Notice again....we have a Trumpet
Notice again we have a resurrection
Notice again we have a Rapture
All three passages talk about the exact same event which is all about Christ's POST-Tribulational, Pre-Millennial coming.
I believe that people do not like the idea that they might actually have to demonstrate their faith and it be tested. Perhaps here in America some people just think they are more deserving of being spared persecution than the Early Christians.
Amen Walter, especially to your last comment there in the last post.
I wont post it, but people should definately read Hebrews 11 where it tells about all the Tribulations that Christians have had to go through as the Ultimate Demonstration of Their Faith..In the Past
But What does make this generation of weak/ spoiled Christians think they are so special.....I just don't know!!
I am still a bit confused too though about why U dont consider those who are Resurrected as being part of the Actual (ghost) Word "Rapture". They are Gathered together in the sky Just like the Transformed Believers who are still alive...So they are actually Raptured too...But Yes Slightly before the Living are Transformed...
No real argurment here but still, wouldnt you agree that the dead in Christ are actually "Raptured" too..just like the living are "Raptured"/"Gathered"???
And last but not least let me add one more Last (7th)Trumpet "Rapture" Passge to the 3 that U already listed.
It is (of course) My Favorite one too, from Revelation 11:11-15
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this worldG2889 are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Would U also agree Walter that Yahshua Returns on the Feast of Trumpets?
BTW I do Also Have a Timeline Posted on my Profile that Points to A Feast of Trumpets Return...
But of course the feast of Trumpets is a 2 Day holiday, sometimes called the "Long Day"..but even that doesnt mean we cant know the Day of his Return..
Christ ONLY said that AT THAT TIME EVEN HE DIDNT KNOW.
But He Does Know Now...But thats a different subject for larter.
DAN: I am still a bit confused too though about why U dont consider those who are Resurrected as being part of the Actual (ghost) Word "Rapture". They are Gathered together in the sky Just like the Transformed Believers who are still alive...So they are actually Raptured too...But Yes Slightly before the Living are Transformed...
No real argurment here but still, wouldnt you agree that the dead in Christ are actually "Raptured" too..just like the living are "Raptured"/"Gathered"???
WALTER: Though both the living and the dead receive new bodies, they are separated as far as the sequence of events. We know that the "dead in Christ" are resurrected first and then the living are per se changed, ie., raptured. We don't know exactly the time lag between these two events but I believe we can surmise that they are within a very short time apart, perhaps as little as a couple of minutes. If we think about this like we would a "wedding procession" we know that there is a time when the bride walks down the isle to meet the groom. When Jesus, the Holy Angels and the dead saints "unresurrected" streak across the sky, I believe this is going to be a major production so to speak and wil "gather together" the dead in Christ first and then after they have reached the groom then those who are alive will be immediately changed and then come up to join the rest of the body of Christ to meet the groom, Christ. This is the marriage and the marriage supper/feast will occur after Armageddon.
The reason I make a distinction is that I believe the bible does as well. I don't think there is any harm in clumping these two events together and calling them "The Rapture", but when it comes to a theological debate in demonstrating to those who believe in the False Doctrine of Pre-Trib, I believe it is important to clarify and show them that the Resurrection occurs first. Do you see what i mean?
And last but not least let me add one more Last (7th)Trumpet "Rapture" Passge to the 3 that U already listed.
It is (of course) My Favorite one too, from Revelation 11:11-15
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
WALTER: Remember that this is talking about the Two Witnesses.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this worldG2889 are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Would U also agree Walter that Yahshua Returns on the Feast of Trumpets?
WALTER: Dan I believe you are correct in this. When Jesus returns He will be fulfilling the Feasts that He did not fulfill when He came the first time. I do agree with you that at some point in time we will know to the day when Jesus will return. So many people have misinterpreted the passage of when Jesus said that "no man knows [present tense] the hour of His 2nd Coming. The word "knows" or in KJV "knoweth" is in the present tense which means that at the time Jesus was speaking this that no man knew "at that moment in time" as to when He would return. He never said that no one would ever know. However when we examine Daniel we know from a specific point in time that there are 1290 days until Christ returns.
