Thread: a response to somethin said in an old topic.
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a response to somethin said in an old topic.
Posted : 15 Mar, 2009 03:22 PM
"Although some don't go into as great detail as others"- Etcallhome
haha i am overwhelmed with bible scholars and links! ;). I dont get much time out of the day to do all this, and usually this is why i dont respond right away and my posts are kind of sloppy. i may check into them, usually i am interested in science and the bible and apologetics concerning so called "contradictions in the bible" this calvinist and arminian think is a recent interest... and i have noticed people can easily say "look at all those contradictions!" concerning the 2 beliefs. thats why i think it makes way more sense to think of it like "we can but we wont" supposed to "we cant". i think most of those verses supporting the arminian view, if not all are basicly Gods way of saying "you cant use the calvinist view as an excuse to sin" he is warning "if you do these things, you are not a christian, but if you are a christian, you wont do these things." maybe a way to weed out the fakes from the real deal. the christians will take the warnings and WILL follow them, but the fakes will be weeded out.
"oil, criso can come up with... there are just some sins... forgiveness from God ain't happening..... And people had better realize these things and start repenting of their sins, before it come to those sins God will not forgive. God's love is for real and He is love, and it is His divine nature to love... but He doesn't play game nor soft-shoe His Word for you, me or anyone else. He does tolerate sin, and refuses to allow anyone to frustrate His grace, and trample under foot His love or the integrity and works of His Son..."
its these sins that lead to death i believe, that one who is commiting them is unaware... non-christians are unaware and so they commit the sins that lead to death. a true christian will not commit these sins. the holy spirit works through the christian, and brings him to repentence. if this isnt true, give me the list of unforgivable sins.
Jesus said "ALL" sins will be forgiven the sons of man(us), and "WHATEVER" blasphemies they utter" but he who blasphemes against the holy spirit. is subject to eternal condemnation" how do you blaspheme the holy spirit? well who did Jesus direct this message to? it was a response to the pharisees when they accused him of casting out demons with the power of satan. in otherwords they were crediting Jesus's miracles, to Satan, and basicly calling Jesus, Satan. the pharasee's seen so many of the miracles performed by Jesus, but they rejected them all, and they still "REJECTED" the casting out of the demons miracle... how many miracles did Jesus have to perform to convince them? it didnt matter, because no matter what or how many miracles he performed they would still say "he has the power of Satan!" they were unconvinced, and nothing was going to convince them otherwise. thus, their soul is damned. anyone ever talk to someone so much in denial, you could rub the proof and facts in their face and they still wouldnt believe you? how do you convince a man who believes that green grass is blue, that its green? he is hopeless... he might as well be blind... like the pharasee's.
"He does tolerate sin, and refuses to allow anyone to frustrate His grace, and trample under foot His love or the integrity and works of His Son..."
right because he doesnt tolerate sin, but yet because of his love, he offers one way out. because we can not remain sinless in this life time.
ETcallhome... do you believe you commit sins? (i dont mean this to sound rude) if you believe so and i am sure you do, what makes you so sure your sins are forgiven? how many times would you say you sin a day? I have heard some people say they have gone weeks with out sinning. do you believe its quanity or quality? whats worse? i am tryin to figure out, what defines a life of sin? what if some one has a porn addiction, and everytime he does it he feels, ashamed and begs for Gods forgiveness? is he out of Gods grace? what about the man who doesnt speak up, when he hears someone cussing out God, or using God in one of his dirty jokes. but he still feels ashamed for not speaking out, and pleads God for his forgiveness... is he not a christian? what about an alcoholic who falls into temptation, and after waking up with a hang over begs for Gods forgiveness.
ok, i have a better question... what do you think about habitual sins? those of which are an addiction? is it impossible for a christian to have a habitual sin? and if one does have a habitual sin, is it considered living in sin? if i look at porn every other day, am i living in sin? if i ask for Gods forgiveness, and for him to turn me from this sin, is it still living in sin? even if i go back to it? is habitual sin, living in sin? yes?
but isnt sin in general habitual? just cause you dont commit the same sin all the time... If it is then, according to what most people believe to be "living in sin" we all live in sin. it doesnt matter if the sin is the same sin everyday, or if its a different sin everyday. if habitual sin is living in sin. we all are living in sin...
Etcallhome, thanks for the challenges, and God bless you :). i hope i do not sound offensive, that is not my intention.
Klmartin62 i appreciate your story (that one story you told like 5 years ago), it is always amazing to see no one is so hopeless that even God cant change them... i had a cousin who went to prison and found God there, but a few weeks after he got out, he went back to his old life style... he said he still believed in God, but didnt believe he had to go to church. i hope he is just backsliding.
another thing... isnt mans freewill over rated? basicly to have freewill is to have a will apart from Gods... am i right? if we did everything God willed, it wouldnt be freewill... it would be his will. if free will is a will apart from Gods, why do you want it? if you want freewill, you are saying you want a will apart from Gods, as in Gods will isnt as good... no matter how you look at it... thats what freewill is. so think about that when you talk about how God is loving cause he lets us have freewill... as if he didnt give us freewill, he wouldnt be loving, because imposing his will on us is bad.
the question is, is our freewill better then Gods will? if you want freewill that is what you are saying.
I am going to say something that is going to set off many people. If you will can override God's will, then that would make YOU sovereign, and God a weaker vessel. I think, if you even want to override God's will, it is time to stop playing church and just go back to the world.
Because there has been so many posts about sovereign will and free will, it's really made me think of my stance on the subject. I have come up with two analogies:
We are like a fish and God is like the fisherman. He has his hook set in us, but He lets us run and fight for a while, then He reels us back in. Back and forth.
I have seen parents at Easter Egg Hunts helping their children find the eggs. I'm sure yall have seen the parents, with their child holding hands and the parent leading them where to go and saying, "Look under there!" or something similar. God is the parent and we are the child.
These are just some thoughts I've had and I felt compelled to post it here.
God is sovereign, but that doesn't lead to the philosophy of St. Augustine or John Calvin. God chooses to limit His sovereignty in the case of man's free will. He has established a framework of natural laws and spiritual laws. His natural laws include the laws of physics. Everything in the universe obeys God's natural laws. Gravity is a good example of God's physical laws. Spiritual laws apply to people. A good example of a spiritual law is found in Romans 6:23, "The wages of sin is death." God allows events to run their natural course in conformity to His laws. Evil is either directly caused by Satan, or it is the natural result of man's choices, not God's sovereignty. God allows man to make choices that can have far reaching effects both good and bad. He even allows Satan free reign on earth within certain parameters. Because mankind has largely rejected his Creator, God allows the natural consequences to take their toll.
Many Calvinists would have you believe that you must choose between a God who is all sovereign, directly controlling everything both good and evil, or else you must believe in a God who is weak and unable to control everything. But, logical thinking and biblical evidence indicates none of the above. God is both all powerful, and self restraining. He can control everything, but He chooses not to. He allows free will. He loves every sinner and earnestly desires that all repent and turn to Him for mercy. Yet, He holds man's freedom to choose above His love for man, and His desire to save. While He provided the ultimate gift of love, by becoming a man and paying the penalty for sin Himself, He will not violate the freedom to choose. He warns of the consequences of rebellion against His laws, and He offers salvation and forgiveness to all, even the pagans in remote places, (Psalm 19:1-4, Rom. 1:18-20). But, he allows man to make his own choice. In this way God is not responsible for evil at all. He does not create evil, nor does He cause evil.
God has established universal laws. When people oppose God, the natural result is bad things happen. God does not cause them to happen, they happen as the result of God's laws. In the physical realm, if you step off a cliff, you will fall and get hurt. God did not hurt you. No decision was made by God that you should be injured. But gravity, God's physical law, which is obeyed by all physical matter, does not make an exception for you. It takes its toll on you because of your bad decision or stupidity. In the same way, man's rebellion against God's spiritual laws has terrible natural consequences. These consequences may be manifest for several generations. They can accumulate and compound, affecting people long after the offender is gone. If it was not for God's intervening in behalf of His people's prayers, this world would have perished long ago. Sometimes God intervenes in the natural course of events in what may appear to us a negative way, but always in order to prevent the compounding devastating consequences of disobedience. At times, sin and its results go so far that God steps in to judge and bring things to a conclusion so as not to corrupt entire civilizations. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a good example of this kind of intervention. This is also the reason God commanded Joshua to wipe out entire cities and tribes. At the time of the flood, things got so bad God wiped out the entire population of the world except eight souls. Things are approaching that level of corruption again and God will again intervene in the history of mankind in a cataclysmic way, (2 Peter 3:1-10).
While generally God allows His laws to interact with man's choices, He also personally and sovereignly interacts with His creation by choosing to intervene in this natural course of events in response to faith. He alone can circumvent these natural and spiritual laws. He is looking for people who will choose, by faith, to respond to His offer of grace. He wants to change the undesirable natural outcome of circumstances for His children when they act in faith upon His promises. And He is ready and able to save to the uttermost all who come to Him.
2 Chronicles 16
9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him.
1 Peter 3
12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
I must make myself clear on a point I made about God tolerating sin. This forum does not have an edit button, so whatever one posts must stay put, because there is no way to correct our mistakes LOL...
That being said, I must cleariy my statemenet atht says , God tolerates sin. In some ways He does, only because of grace, and we are not punsihed for our sinfull deed to the degree we should be. But then, again He DOES NOT tolerate sin, to the degree that we can continue to sin without repenting of those sins and due processs... the consequences of our sins MUST be reckon with... as the wrtier of Hebrews capter 12 points out... God chastens us for our sins, becaue He loves us. As David says there is no way we are chasten according to the dree of our sin, if this happened we would live. But Paul points the penalty of sin is death whether its spirituall disconnted in the fellowhsip with Christ, emotionally, mentally, or phycial death when God removes His hadn off of us. We are told in Romans chapters 1-9, all aout The penalty of and the pollution of sin which is death...that's the wages or price of sin, Gods' wrath one pays for disobedience. Paul also tells us that where sin abound, grace abound even the more, meaning an opportunity for repentance for those in Christ Jesus. Therefore now this void the condemnation to those who are in Christ, only becasue we are able to go before the throne of grace and repent of our sins before God, and receive His grace and mercy.
Then Peter makes it very plain for us so there is no excuse of sin a born again Christians, who do their best to live under the influenece of the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter chapter3.
For the Lord is not slack concerning Hi spromise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that WE ALL should come to repentance.
The writer of Hebrews chapter 10 says, this...
For if we willfull sin AFTER we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgement, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Then Jamse chapter 4 tells us...
therefore to him/her who knows to do good (right) and does not do it, to him/her it is sin...
Philip, Please know that there was nor anything in your comments that offended me. I'm not easierly offended by others thoughts or opinions. This is what reasoning in scripture is all about... Whether you agree or disagree with things I say or believe. As Jesus spoke, blessed are those who are not offended by Me... I feel the same lol...
I like your spiritual insights into the word of God... you speak from spiritual knowledge which is the manifestation of God's word settling into your spirit, and this is different than speaking from the top of you head not being able to give spiritual insight into God's word.:glow::winksmile:
Corrections: If God punished us according to the degree of our sins, we WOULD NOT LIVE! There are many other typos, but if you have any questions please ask of me and I will make it clear... Sorry!
Geeezzz, I will be so happy when we get an edit button:applause::dancingp::yay::party:
