Author	Thread: Trinity of three persons in God:
Admin	Trinity of three persons in God: Posted : 4 Sep, 2012 05:38 PM All this we know, as well from the testimonies of holy writ, as from their operations, and chiefly by those we feel in ourselves. The testimonies of the Holy Scriptures, that teach us to believe this Holy Trinity are written in many places of the Old Testament, which are not so necessary to enumerate, as to choose them out with discretion and judgment. In Genesis, chap. 1:26, 27, God says: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness, etc . So God created man in his own image, male and female created he them. And Gen. 3:22. Behold the man is become as one of us . From this saying, let us make man in our image, it appears that there are more persons than one in the Godhead; and when he says, God created, he signifies the unity. It is true he does not say how many persons there are, but that, which appears to us somewhat obscure in the Old Testament, is very plain in the New. For when our Lord was baptized in Jordan , the voice of the Father was heard, saying, This is my beloved Son: the Son was seen in the water, and the Holy Ghost appeared in the shape of a dove. This form is also instituted by Christ in the baptism of all believers. Baptize all nations, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost . In the Gospel of Luke, the angel Gabriel thus addressed Mary, the mother of our Lord, the Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also that holy thing, which shall be born of thee, shall be called the Son of God : likewise, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost be with you . And there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one . In all which places we are fully taught, that there are three persons in one only divine essence. And although this doctrine far surpasses all human understanding, nevertheless, we now believe it by means of the Word of God, but expect hereafter to enjoy the perfect knowledge and benefit thereof in Heaven . Moreover, we must observe the particular offices and operations of these three persons towards us. The Father is called our Creator, by his power ; the Son is our Savior and Redeemer, by his blood ; the Holy Ghost is our Sanctifier, by his dwelling in our hearts . This doctrine of the Holy Trinity, has always been defended and maintained by the true Church, since the time of the apostles, to this very day, against the Jews, Mohammedans, and some false Christians and heretics, as Marcion, Manes, Praxeas, Sabellius, Samosatenus, Arius, and such like, who have been justly condemned by the orthodox fathers. Therefore, in this point, we do willingly receive the three creeds, namely, that of the Apostles, of Nice, and of Athanasius: likewise that, which, conformable thereunto, is agreed upon by the ancient fathers. Post Reply
View Profile History	Trinity of three persons in God: Posted : 5 Sep, 2012 10:02 AM Thanks, ExceedingJoy! What you've posted has scriptural grounding, it's persuasive, and it points to a great mystery about the nature of God that I'm sure will be a source of praise and glorification of his name for ever. Now, for me to get...petty, maybe? I have my reservations about reading Genesis 1-3 in this way. After all, the Jews even before Jesus had been reading it for some time, and hold that it yields no meaning of plurality about God. Why take this particular passage like this? Post Reply
View Profile History	Trinity of three persons in God: Posted : 5 Sep, 2012 10:07 AM Gen. 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 1: 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen. 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Post Reply
View Profile History	Trinity of three persons in God: Posted : 5 Sep, 2012 01:42 PM AND GOD SAID, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR OWN IMAGE... wherever you see God speaking about US and OUR, He is speaking about more than one person within Himself since He can't possibly be speaking about anyone else making man into HIS OWN IMAGE. I would ask you, what does these two words mean... who are the US and OUR... and who is God speaking about here? is it not US and OUR plurality, meaning more than ONE? So if Jews have been reading Genesis even before Jesus had been reading it for some time... which is impossible since Jesus was BEFORE the Jews... and if the Jews have been reading any parts of the Old Testament, then they should know all there is to know all about God incarnated as Jesus, because it is written and prophesied throughout the Old Testament about the coming of the birth of Jesus... so what part of the Old Testament do you or the Jews not understand?... or, are you and they rejecting God's truth as always for their own beliefs, even so, that which Moses and Isaiah tried to tell them, according to what Paul has written: Romans 10:16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, �Lord, who has believed our message?�17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: �Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.� 19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,�I will make you envious by those who are not a nation; I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.� 20 And Isaiah boldly says, �I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.� 21 But concerning Israel he says, �All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.� I say, either you believe all of God's Word as it is written by faith, or you don't! Only those who do not believe and are in doubt get petty and question God's Word especially if you don't know what God's Word for yourself in your heart. Post Reply
View Profile History	Trinity of three persons in God: Posted : 5 Sep, 2012 10:02 PM I want not to take from a passage of scripture what it doesn't mean. Early Genesis is very poetic, and for all I know, God is speaking there in the royal person (for instance). When I said "before Jesus", I meant it in the same way as people mean "before Christ" (BC). It's easy for us in hindsight (with the Holy Spirit poured out onto us by Jesus), to see how Jesus and what he did fulfils Old Testament prophecy. Yet the way of salvation is a mystery, and God waited until his time for the Christ event to reveal its' culmination (Romans 16:25-27). Before that, people who best understood God were of the Jews (David, say - 1 Samuel 13:14). I do not doubt that there is more than one person of God. Maybe the word "us" in Genesis here is meant to point to that. But I do not understand why it's interpreted above in a way that seems to simply ignore any Jewish understanding of it, especially since many agree that it was a Jew who (by faith) wrote it. If you know why, ExceedingJoy, please help me. Post Reply
View Profile History	Trinity of three persons in God: Posted : 6 Sep, 2012 07:09 AM Bloodnok, I really don't get what you are trying to say in your comments... so maybe you should explain what it is you're saying or that you're trying to point out, so that I may better understand your comments. The Old Testament is a mirror of the New Testament... If you understand the Old you will have no problems understanding the New. If you understand that God is Jesus, and Jesus is God incarnated, and The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father, and Jesus Christ... then what's your p[roblem?... you should know that when God said "let us", he was indeed speaking to Himself, His Son, and His Spirit as being three in One, The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being that we are made in His image, when we are born again we become like Christ, and are fill with His Holy Spirit. The Word speaks for its self... maybe you don't spiritually fully undertsand the scriptures. Don't know how it is that the Jews interpret this passage or God's Word, and you can't seem to explain how they interpret this passage. And as I said, if a person rejects the whole truth of God's Word about His Son in the Old Testament, they will not understand what God is saying when they read any of His Word in the New Testament, and will come up with their own interpretation. So maybe if you tell me how the Jews interpret and understand this passage it will help know what point you are trying to make... otherwise, this is going nowhere because you are only saying you disagree or understand scripture spiritually, and you are not saying what it is the Jew understanding or how they interpret this passage. And you're asking questioning that are going nowhere about the Word, because scriptures backup what it says clearly. Just because the Jews interpret this passage to their understanding doesn't make it right, nor is it the truth of what this is saying, the Jews have always rejected the truth about Jesus, so what's new?... and just because a Jew (as you say) wrote this book still doesn't mean the Jews understand what its says otherwise, they wouldn't reject God's Only Begotten Son, Jesus the Christ, being that the prophets of the Old Testament spoke of His coming, and so did Moses, and everything that is written from Genesis to Malachi in the Old Testament testifies of Jesus. So maybe you can explain why the Jew ignore this truth?... John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.... 10 He (Jesus) was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 (Jesus) who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Post Reply
View Profile History	Trinity of three persons in God: Posted : 6 Sep, 2012 10:01 AM Bloodnok, My post was not about the Jews, but the Trinity. And, I am not going to keep posting. Post Reply
View Profile History	Trinity of three persons in God: Posted : 6 Sep, 2012 09:02 PM Alright. And I'll have a go. First, I came from a place of applause for affirmation of such a mystery about God. Then I began straw-splitting. Talking about things like the Belgic Confession's content gets us into our bibles, no? My question was "Why take this particular passage like this?". I'm not sure that early Genesis is to be used as a proof-text for plurality of God (as it seems it was). It's difficult to identify what is to be taken literally in the Bible's first few chapters. I am for its use as supportive text for trinity - consistent with an idea seen to spring from elsewhere in the bible - but that's different. New Testament passages referred to by article 9 make sense of reading Genesis 1:26-27 (for instance) with some plurality about God in mind, not the other way around, even with passages like Deuteronomy 6:4. Bringing up the BC Jewish perspective has turned out to be a blunder on my part. Sorry about that. Post Reply